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Alternative Play Format: Objectives for X-Wing

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1 minute ago, impspy said:

Does anyone have suggestions for plastic models to represent the crates for objective #5?

Go to the hobby store, get 1/4" balsa stick, cut to length. Glue to an extra stand. Get bigger balsa if you need larger representation. Paint works, but so does a sharpie.

That's the cheap way.

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On 1/24/2018 at 6:33 PM, Jeff Wilder said:

You can get 35mm or 40mm acrylic cubes in various colors.  Somebody even a little handy -- not me -- could even drill and inset a peg for actual mounting on a base.  Seems like that would be cool.

That's what I was leaning towards; I have a lot of spare bases (red base packs ftw) and was planning to mount some crates to pegs directly.

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On 1/24/2018 at 7:33 PM, Jeff Wilder said:

You can get 35mm or 40mm acrylic cubes in various colors.  Somebody even a little handy -- not me -- could even drill and inset a peg for actual mounting on a base.  Seems like that would be cool.

You could also glue a magnet to the side of the cube like we see suggested so much for other ships!

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On 1/22/2018 at 12:46 AM, Tvboy said:

Ran a tournament using the format, we ended up playing Shuttle Scuttle, Crates and VIP Assist. My players had some questions about how the rules work and I had to do my best answering them based on what I saw in the rules pamphlet but I wasn't quite sure. I will include my answers after the question but I have another tournament coming up in two weeks and we'd like to know the answers. 

Q: Do range bonuses apply when attacking a crate and can attacks on crates be obstructed? A: Yes, the crate will roll +1 evade die for range bonus and/or obstructed and attacker gets +1 atk for range 1 primary attack.

Q: Does the crate suffer damage from things like bombs, deadman's switch, etc? A: No, because they are not ships according to the mission, so they are not affected by things that affect ships other than attacks. 

Q: Can the crates be target locked for the purposes of ordnance, and can ordnance be fired at them via deadeye? A: Since they are not ships, they are objectives, and objectives cannot have tokens assigned to them, so they cannot be target locked, but ordnance can be fired at them using deadeye.

Q: Does the transport in VIP assist have a firing arc, and if so does attacking a ship outside of that firing arc trigger autothrusters? A: It is considered a ship, and the rules mentioned that it may attack outside of its firing arc, so therefore it must have a firing arc, and it will trigger autothrusters.

Q: Does the transport get a range bonus when it attacks? Can its attacks be obstructed? A: I ruled that the defender does get a range bonus against the transport at range 3 (it's impossible for the transport to attack a ship at range 1) and that attacks from the transport can be obstructed.

Q: Are there any restrictions on the orientation of the transport when placed? Can I place it a 45 degree angle or with the firing arc facing my opponent's board edge? A: I actually ruled incorrectly on this one and thought that the deployment rules from Shuttle Scuttle applied, but there are no restrictions on orientation in VIP Assist's rules. 

Let me know if my rulings were correct or not.

 

No response on this yet? You guys need LFL approval too lol? We've got another tournament coming up this Saturday. 

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5 hours ago, Mynock Delta said:

Shiz, I dunno, I was the flavor text guy!

*facepalm* Alright, you can go back to your cave, you winged power leach...

 

@Tvboy - I've gone through your rulings myself, and I think you've made all the same calls I would have. There's two in particular I'm hoping somebody on the design team steps up to answer.

20 hours ago, Tvboy said:

Q: Can the crates be target locked for the purposes of ordnance, and can ordnance be fired at them via deadeye? A: Since they are not ships, they are objectives, and objectives cannot have tokens assigned to them, so they cannot be target locked, but ordnance can be fired at them using deadeye.

Technically correct. The best kind of correct! Right on page 1 under Objectives it does state that objectives cannot be assigned tokens. This... seems rather counter to intent when you actually are trying to blow up crates. I think I would have allowed target locks had I been put on the spot, but I'll admit I just like pretty explosions. So, wording of the rules, you seem to be correct.

20 hours ago, Tvboy said:

Q: Are there any restrictions on the orientation of the transport when placed? Can I place it a 45 degree angle or with the firing arc facing my opponent's board edge? A: I actually ruled incorrectly on this one and thought that the deployment rules from Shuttle Scuttle applied, but there are no restrictions on orientation in VIP Assist's rules. 

Whoops! That's one of those things I read and it made sense, but would have spotted had I actually played this mission. So yeah, either initiative is huge or the transport in this mission should likely be deployed the same way as Shuttle Scuttle and a line was missed. As written, it would appear the objective can face any direction and should be ruled as such unless somebody steps forward.

I'm still reading version 1.0 here so clearly my interpretative dance routine here will likely be dated by any updates since, or changes with lessons learned from Krayt Cup this past weekend.

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Sorry we're slow - here's the diff to the next version, we just haven't had a chance to update the actual art because of all the other stuff going on.

 

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1ZNHwsEdMbB2rwH-EUDJXBNSCnVw-KY1daInuuTJeI3Q/edit?usp=drivesdk

Hope that answers most of the questions, I'll double check when I get back home

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On 2/2/2018 at 11:56 PM, Brunas said:

Sorry we're slow - here's the diff to the next version, we just haven't had a chance to update the actual art because of all the other stuff going on.

 

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1ZNHwsEdMbB2rwH-EUDJXBNSCnVw-KY1daInuuTJeI3Q/edit?usp=drivesdk

Hope that answers most of the questions, I'll double check when I get back home

One thing that I think should be considered or defined before you make an update is what happens in mission 1 if the shuttle makes a move that would carry it off the neutral table edge. My assumption is that it would bump the table edge as though the edge were a ship. It should be noted that you can have shuttles that would be permanently stuck at the edge if they bump against the edge.

That's not a huge problem since players can always pick up points from control but I think it's worth bringing to your attention, especially because it's possible to deploy the shuttle so that the first player to move the shuttle will actually prevent the other player from ever being able to get it to their table edge. If the shuttle is placed as close as possible to the neutral table edge it faces at the start of the game, then the first player table edge it takes a 1-bank towards becomes the only table edge it can practically escape from. Turning back toward the other player table edge will cause it to bump the neutral table edge and remain there permanently.  The only possible way to escape from the table edge it did not initially fly toward is for the shuttle to keep 1-banking in the same direction as it's first move and get to the edge around turn 11.  

This problem can be eliminated by having the shuttle interact with the neutral edge in a different way (for example if you control the shuttle and it can't legally execute a maneuver because it would cause you to flee, you may rotate the base 90 degrees), or by changing the shuttle's deployment area. If the shuttle is deployed at beyond range 4 of the player table edges, and within range 4 of the neutral table edge it is not facing, the shuttle has much better ability to reach either player table edge. This deployment is still roughly equidistant from both table edges and does not offer either side a significant advantage. 

 

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39 minutes ago, Babaganoosh said:

One thing that I think should be considered or defined before you make an update is what happens in mission 1 if the shuttle makes a move that would carry it off the neutral table edge. My assumption is that it would bump the table edge as though the edge were a ship. It should be noted that you can have shuttles that would be permanently stuck at the edge if they bump against the edge.

That's actually covered in the rules, @Babaganoosh.

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Played my second set yesterday of objectives with 75 time limit. So good. Won against Poe with a list I normally never would consider

Countess Ryad (34)
Intensity (2)
TIE/x7 (-2)

Tetran Cowall (24)
Wired (1)
Twin Ion Engine Mk. II (1)
Autothrusters (2)
Royal Guard TIE (0)

Academy Pilot (12)

"Omega Leader" (21)
Veteran Instincts (1)
Advanced Optics (2)
Twin Ion Engine Mk. II (1)

Total: 99

View in Yet Another Squad Builder

Well done guys, The scenarios are great equalizers to TLT/ Regen / Bombs/ High HP ships / Harpoons.... all ships have a place here!

Edited by Cloaker

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Thanks again for this! We just finished a league using the format and a lot of fun was had! We are considering doing the objectives for another league season and the question was raised if there was any progress on adding new objectives. I assume @Brunas @Rytackle that everyone is focused on the competitive season right now, but are there plans to expand into more objectives? [Maybe even some that need testing/data?]

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Nice list Cloaker - that Tetran Cowall is one unexpected ship! I pulled out a win the other day with the following against triple TIE/sf:

Nu Squadron Pilot
Heavy Laser Cannon
Linked Battery

XG-1 Assault Config
Long-Range Scanners

Carnor Jax
Push the Limit
Stealth Device
Autothrusters
Royal Guard TIE

QuickDraw
Expertise
Lightweight Frame
Fire Control System
SpecOps Training

Total: 99

I goofed with Carnor and bumped into the parked shuttle (we were playing shuttle scuttle) so he evaporated instantly, but quickdraw hung around long enough to bring the closing game to the Nu vs an out-of-position Zeta specialist, and the Nu with his HLC did the job to finish the match. If there wasn't an objective it could have gone very differently, with the wounded zeta specialist disengaging ad then coming in behind the Nu.

What other lists are people finding effective? Palp aces seems to go pretty well, and I suspect anything with more than two ships has a fighting chance.

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Just played another objective match, and I thought I'd share some comments on the objective placing and initiative. In particular, I'm thinking about how hard you need to bid for initiative if you're flying slow ships.

In each case I'll assume that players place objectives as close to their own board edge as possible. As per the rules, the player with initiative places the first objective (and in some cases this is the only objective). I also assume that players deploy as far forward as possible, in line with the objective, are facing the objective, and are using small based ships. Finally, I assume that no rocks are placed between player ships and the objectives.

Shuttle Scuttle / VIP Assist: The player with initiative places a large base ship at range 4 of their table edge. The slowest moves they can perform which still reach the objective are 4 forward or 2 bank with a barrel roll. The opposing player, however, must perform at least a 5 forward or 3 bank and barrel roll.

Rock Riot: Since there are 2 objectives, the deployment here becomes symmetrical. If a player wants to reach an objective placed at r3 of their own edge, they don't need to do anything. If a player wants to reach an objective placed at r3 of the opponent's table edge (assuming the tiny moustache-shaped asteroid is used), then they only need to go 4fwd (remember that objectives in this mission are controlled at range 1-3).

Shielded Sensor: Once again, I'm using the tiny moustache rock here. The player with initiative places it at r4 of their table edge, and thus can reach controlling range of the objective (r1-2) with a 2fwd or a 1 bank and barrel roll. Their opponent can reach controlling range with a 4fwd or 2 bank and barrel roll.

Crate Carriers: These objectives are attacked, not controlled. I also haven't played this mission yet.

Freight Fight: Like rock riot, this is a symmetrical setup. A cargo container at r4 of a player's board edge may be reached with a 4 forward or 2 bank and barrel roll (but remember to save an action for capturing the crate). A cargo container at r4 of the opponent's board edge may be reached with a 4fwd and boost (but again, remember to keep an action spare).

So, how does that pan out? 3 missions are symmetrical, so there's no big worry if you lose init in those missions. However, in rock riot, shuttle scuttle and VIP assist, the player with initiative has much more control over where the fight will take place. Shielded sensor has a large enough control area that this isn't a problem for most lists, as you should have at least one ship capable of a 4fwd or a 2 bank and barrel roll (B-wings aren't as slow as you thought, see?). However, if you don't have initiative in shuttle scuttle or VIP assist, things are a bit more dire. You need at least one ship with boost, 5fwd, or 3 bank + barrel roll.

This isn't a problem if you account for it when list-building, but it does mean you have to be careful. For instance, a rebel alpha list with Nym, Wedge and Cracken will have to send nym out alone in front to contest objectives and burn his action on a barrel roll (or stress from a 5 fwd). That's a very risky move! If you're confident in your game plan, you might be able to hang back so your opponent over-commits to the objective and gets out of position, then you can take them apart on the following turn. It's a risky strategy, though, as you're essentially giving them free points!

TL;DR if you don't have initiative, you better have a fast ship (boost, 5fwd, large base, or 3 bank+br). Even if you do have init, you need to be able to go at least 4fwd to contest objectives on turn 1.

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On 5/6/2018 at 6:32 AM, impspy said:

Are there plans to update this to 2.0 when it comes out?

 

On 5/15/2018 at 3:59 PM, Rytackle said:

Also, YES we will be updating this for second edition once we know all the rules.  

 

In second edition could we remove static objectives to future proof them from mines and bombs. Find a way to keep objectives more of area objectives or somewhat moving objectives so no one can fort/wall them in and you won't need a 2.0 ban list.

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