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Star Wars 8 - The Last Jedi - Reviews (SPOILERS!!)

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1 hour ago, Hobojebus said:

Did you just assume her gender? now the scottish police force will come for you man :(

Nah, I just paraphrased William Shakespeare.  If preferred, I can paraphrase another great Brit: 

"Who's the more hateful, the "hater" or the hater who hates on him?"

With the inverted commas applied due to how disingenuous the description is.  No one in any of the posted video reviews is a "hater".  They're fans.  Disappointed fans, expressing criticism and concern.  As pointed out on the previous page, labelling people as "haters"  for expressing an opinion is both childish and unhelpful.

In unrelated news, I'm about to watch A New Hope.  Happy New Year, everyone.

Edited by FTS Gecko

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19 minutes ago, FTS Gecko said:

Nah, I just paraphrased William Shakespeare.  If preferred, I can paraphrase another great Brit: 

"Who's the more hateful, the "hater" or the hater who hates on him?"

With the inverted commas applied due to how disingenuous the description is.  No one in any of the posted video reviews is a "hater".  They're fans.  Disappointed fans, expressing criticism and concern.  As pointed out on the previous page, labelling people as "haters"  for expressing an opinion is both childish and unhelpful.

In unrelated news, I'm about to watch A New Hope.  Happy New Year, everyone.

Hmm new census in a year how about we make hater a religion this time, then we'd be a protected group.

 

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@FTS Gecko  @debiler notice I how never came for those with legitimite concerns with the movies? I asked FTS Gecko if he wanted me to elaborate to no response so let me clarify something right now.

Haters references those who irrationally hate the movie, and whose points misconstrue and distort what is actually in the film to fit their point of view. They hate to hate so there is no purer term then haters. There is nothing wrong with having distaste for what is irrational.

Rather then being overly sensitive and assuming my comments were addressed to either of you, and thus cluttering this thread with youtube personalities that affirm your stance, we may have had a more sensible conversation.

Edit: I have nothing against either of you personally and I don't wish to escalate this conversation. I hope you both have a wonderful rest of your holidays and a fantastic new years. :)

Edited by Forresto

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3 hours ago, Firespray-32 said:

Something gives me the feeling this thread is going to go the way of the other one in short order.

Oh well, I tried my best to add some levity to the thread... I think that what's going on here is the same thing on both sides. Yes, I think there are those who are saying the movie is better than they would have otherwise just as a reaction to the people who very openly dislike everything about it, but I also think there's a lot of people who do the inverse - say they hate it a lot more than they would have otherwise, just as a reaction to the people who are saying it's the best Star Wars movie ever. By the way, "best movie ever" and "worst movie ever" are totally valid responses, but I don't think this movie warrants as many of those as it's been getting. 

I think this movie rates a little higher than a 9/10. @FTS Gecko is on the record as thinking this movie rates a little lower than 7/10. Most people should probably fall between one of those two ratings, honestly. I just think that, like everything else this year, this movie has become a very polarized, political fight rather than just another Star Wars movie. Which is what it is. It's just another Star Wars movie. If you were going to actually objectively rank all the movies, it would be somewhere in the middle. Oh well. I saw it for the third time last night, and I still feel like it's a great movie, but I also don't really feel like going and beating people up for feeling otherwise. 

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People have this desperate need for consensus in all things these days.

Ultimately it's a film. The assessment of the critics with minimal knowledge of Star Wars generally thought it was quite a good film.

Most of the assessments of it as a piece of the Star Wars canon rather than as a work of film conclude that it's a departure from A New Hope's fairy tale in space format. Some like this, some don't. That's fine.

The modern custom of taking offence to differing opinion is not.

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On 31.12.2017 at 8:17 PM, Forresto said:

@FTS Gecko  @debiler notice I how never came for those with legitimite concerns with the movies? I asked FTS Gecko if he wanted me to elaborate to no response so let me clarify something right now.

Haters references those who irrationally hate the movie, and whose points misconstrue and distort what is actually in the film to fit their point of view. They hate to hate so there is no purer term then haters. There is nothing wrong with having distaste for what is irrational.

Rather then being overly sensitive and assuming my comments were addressed to either of you, and thus cluttering this thread with youtube personalities that affirm your stance, we may have had a more sensible conversation.

Edit: I have nothing against either of you personally and I don't wish to escalate this conversation. I hope you both have a wonderful rest of your holidays and a fantastic new years. :)

Ok, so I just misread your earlier post (the one I quoted). Thanks for clearing that up. I'm also fed up with people who don't seem to be able to think critically about stuff but rather choose to adopt a rigid, inflexible stance.

Anyway - Now that we have this out of the way, I hope we can continue our discussion, because there's just so much much to gripe, praise, whine, love, laugh and bicker about TLJ.

P.S.: I did have a great holiday and a fantatstic new years, so thanks for that. Hope you did too! :)

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20 hours ago, Firespray-32 said:

Can we please stop spamming the forums with videos that take up most of my screen?

If you've got something relevant to post then post it. If you want to share YouTube diatribes take it to PMs.

Er... no?  This topic is for The Last Jedi reviews.  There's a lot of important questions, salient points and valid criticism being raised in the highlighted videos; if you don't want to watch or share them fine, but that doesn't mean that other people shouldn't have the opportunity to look at them or discuss them in this topic, or use them to highlight specific points.
 

59 minutes ago, debiler said:

I'm also fed up with people who don't seem to be able to think critically about stuff but rather choose to adopt a rigid, inflexible stance.

INdeed.  And this applies to people on both ends of the spectrum.

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Just now, FTS Gecko said:

INdeed.  And this applies to people on both ends of the spectrum.

Exactly. I'm fine with people loving TLJ, I'm also fine with people hating it. But god forbid you're asking some of them to be constructive and critical about their opinions...

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5 hours ago, FTS Gecko said:

Er... no?  This topic is for The Last Jedi reviews.  There's a lot of important questions, salient points and valid criticism being raised in the highlighted videos; if you don't want to watch or share them fine, but that doesn't mean that other people shouldn't have the opportunity to look at them or discuss them in this topic, or use them to highlight specific points.

Then please post those salient points instead or at least alongside. This is a discussion, not a directory.

Edited by Firespray-32

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16 minutes ago, Firespray-32 said:

Then post those salient points. This is a discussion, not a directory.

I agree partly. Not everybody wants to watch these clips. So if you have, why not post some interesting points they made? On the other hand, does it hurt the thread to have a couple of videos?

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Quote

On the other hand, does it hurt the thread to have a couple of videos?

No, provided they're used appropriately to supplement a post. I've no issue with visual aids or linking sources. Videos can be used well in this sort of discussion.

What I do have an issue with is spamming meme-level material with no or next to no supporting post or justification of relevance whatsoever in a serious discussion. If people want a meme thread they should make a meme thread.

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I'm watching the Alachia Queen review right now, and I have to say she raises the exact same points that bothered me about TLJ. So in the end, the video was useful, wasn't it? Otherwise, I might not have found it.

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So Finn and Rose's storyline is perhaps the most heavily criticised aspect of the movie. 

I personally enjoy that whole storyline because it does one thing Star Wars typically doesn't do, protagonists failing. Failure not due to external forces but by the very choices the characters make. At every turn Finn and Rose make choices that sink them further into danger. 

The show Rebels often presents similar storylines but with the exception that it's characters ultimately succeed. These incredulous successes happen far too frequently on that show and the new canon expanded universe, much to my frustration, so much so I will follow any major story line that ends in its main characters failing. 

As for their storyline accomplishing anything, well that depends.

We get the first post prequel glance at the galaxy's military industrial complex, we get a cool new planet that's allegiance to the Corporate sector will probably tie into the Solo movie, we got a new unpredictable player in DJ, and more then anything if you care about the characters at all we got a ton of character development for Finn and Rose. 

If you think about it, this storyline aacomplishes as much if not slightly more then Han Solo and Leia's storyline in the Empire Strikes Back. Half of that was hiding in an asteroid field and a space slug, a scene I'm certain is at least as long as most of the Canto Bight scenes. 

Important to note the importance and beauty of the Empire Strikes Back is that no one accomplishes any of their goals only barely achieving survival at the end. It's essentially a character development movie.

Failure is the theme of this movie however it's Rose that has the epiphany and vocalizes that true victory comes from saving what you love. 

@debiler Thats great to hear, I did as well. Nothing beats a day off and good food.

Edited by Forresto

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I really enjoyed the movie. It wasn't all I had hoped for and I did not think it would be since I did not get to make my movie. That being said I am very much looking forward to seeing it for a second time. I thought they did a great job turning Kylo into a real character, likewise with Rey. I loved seeing Luke on screen again, he stole the show for me (the whole scene with Yoda left me feeling 10 years old again), I knew he was going to die but I really hoped he wouldn't. I'm sure we will see him again as a force ghost in the next installment. 

I had also hoped to see Luke really kick some *** and thought I was going to get my wish. When he reached up to brush off his robe I thought he was going to disintegrate all those walkers... oh well. 

I had a theory that the movie was going to focus around Luke going totally rogue, being disgusted with the constant struggle between good and bad and just go nuts and wipe out the new order and resistance so that Kylo and Rey were going to have to join forces against him... would have been cool to see... oh well.

In the end we got some new Star Wars, and I for one am always excited for new Star Wars!

We can never go back to when we were 10 and see it all for the first time with a child's imagination and wonder. Star Wars has always had plot holes and some bad acting and that a part of its charm.

 

 

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18 minutes ago, Forresto said:

....Failure is the theme of this movie however it's Rose that has the epiphany and vocalizes that true victory comes from saving what you love.... 

 

It makes for a good quote, but that was one of the most horrible decisions by a person in a movie. She saved Finn from what would have been a heroic death (which would have been a good storytelling point) because she loved him. She had no idea Luke would come and save the Resistance. She put the whole Resistance, and therefore the whole universe, at risk because she loved a guy. Love can make you do crazy things, but I just have a serious issue with you sacrificing potentially billions of lives because you loved someone.

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10 minutes ago, LifeGain said:

It makes for a good quote, but that was one of the most horrible decisions by a person in a movie. She saved Finn from what would have been a heroic death (which would have been a good storytelling point) because she loved him. She had no idea Luke would come and save the Resistance. She put the whole Resistance, and therefore the whole universe, at risk because she loved a guy. Love can make you do crazy things, but I just have a serious issue with you sacrificing potentially billions of lives because you loved someone.

 I suspect she believed it was a futile sacrifice and I would tend to agree. 

After all her sister sacrificed everything and blew up the dreadnought only for the First Order to come right back and kick their butts. 

She saw Holdo sacrifice herself only for the First Order to again come right back and kick theit butts on Crait. 

Her epiphany is that Finn was going to sacrifice himself and fail to destroy the weapon and that ultimately he is more valuable alive to keep fighting.

Let's say he does blow the weapon up, the First Order has a fleet in orbit and a massive army at the doorstep. What will disabling one gun really do against the loss of a valuable soldier? The doors will still fall, they're powerful but not invincible.

Edited by Forresto

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