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Star Wars 8 - The Last Jedi - Reviews (SPOILERS!!)

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9 minutes ago, kris40k said:

I do also like that it seems that Ello Asty is the new Wedge. Dude's made it through two movies so far. He is a mutineer though, like Poe, and I think they got off a little light for that.

Different dude - we seen Ello get blown up in TFA.

Are you saying you can't tell those species apart - kinda racist dude ;)

 

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3 hours ago, eMeM said:

How does that change anything? Why would a grunt know more about secret wunderwafles than a janitor?

It changes your story. An infantry man who was on maintenance an thus knows where the shield control on Starkiller base or the fuses on the Supremacy are is not unbelievable. He doesn‘t know where the tracking device is, and never said he does. That‘s you misunderstanding and misrepresenting the movie.

You also failed to understand why they went from Resistance to Rebellion.

So many mistakes where you just did not understand. Which is hilarious given that you tried to dismiss that by likening it to ‚you‘re a nazi‘

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To me: three story arcs...

Force: Kylo, Rey, Luke, etc... A  

I like, hoping JJ brings Luke back somehow, but if not, I still like this arc

Command: The Fleet Case and battles, good... B-

We needed more and better explanation on why the probably 1000 TIE fighters weren’t launched, and I get the complaints on the suicide jump, but it was done well enough that I’m good with a suicide miniSSD doing that much damage... just 2 sentences, 1 on a better reason fighters couldn’t launch (realitive speed, deep space is bad for TIEs, etc) and 1 on Holdo being a navigator in the past undoing normally hardwired safeties and that only a ship that size could cut through, etc

Rogues: The casino, greyhounds, infliltration, etc... F  

So much nonsensical, no way plot armor, stupid coincidences, I was fine with Finn dying and then Rose... meh, stupid waste of film/time 

 

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4 minutes ago, Lobokai said:

To me: three story arcs...

Force: Kylo, Rey, Luke, etc... A  

Command: The Fleet Case and battles, good... B-

Rogues: The casino, greyhounds, infliltration, etc... F  

 

Hey, a fellow Destiny player! I had the same thought. 

I agree with your assessment, although I'd probably give them more like 

Force: A+++ 

Command: A-

Rogue: B

Edited by Kieransi

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1 hour ago, Hawkstrike said:

Yeah, I forgot Snaps.  Where'd he wander off too? Neither one of them made an appearance.  Seems an odd oversight, especially with Ello Cloney right there.

I heard Snap was actually on screen for like, a split second.   If that's true, then I"m guessing most of his footage got cut for time.  Either way, you KNOW he'll be back in the next movie, since JJ is back at the helm. 

 

Just saw it again and It's so much better a 2nd time.   Honestly.  I was able to pick up on some many other small things that I had missed the 1st time through.  Like music - Rose has her own theme and it's cute.  I like her.  

 

  I STILL want Finn to get some Jedi Training though.    Seriously.   Not getting my hopes up for that though - because dude - we know what happens when you EXPECT things about of a Star Wars film.... (at least now we do).  

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1 minute ago, LagJanson said:

The Rose-Finn relationship is a way to create new tensions between Rey-Finn in ep9. Those two had something but Rose connects more with Finn due to the nature of their characters. I'm fine with it. Clumsy, yes, but so are their characters.

Yeah, I liked the Rose-Finn relationship! But I'm not sure about Rey-Finn tensions. I think Rey kind of gave Rose and Finn the same look at the end of the movie that Luke gave to Han and Leia.

I'm actually willing to bet there aren't actually going to be romantic tensions between Rey and anybody, and Disney was just yanking our chain with Rey hugging Finn, holding hands with Kylo, and giving a normal human smile to Poe. 

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3 minutes ago, Kieransi said:

Yeah, I liked the Rose-Finn relationship! But I'm not sure about Rey-Finn tensions. I think Rey kind of gave Rose and Finn the same look at the end of the movie that Luke gave to Han and Leia.

I'm actually willing to bet there aren't actually going to be romantic tensions between Rey and anybody, and Disney was just yanking our chain with Rey hugging Finn, holding hands with Kylo, and giving a normal human smile to Poe. 

After that (otherwise unnecessary) scene with Poe and Rey, a romance or at least some meaningful interaction between the two seems probable. 

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So this is going to lengthy, but I'm going to delve into a lot of thoughts because I had a lot of thoughts

 

The opening set piece battle was solid in a number of ways.  It sets the tone appropriately for the entire movie because it's less about awesome pilots being awesome and more about trying to fight an enemy so far beyond you, that the best you can hope for is taking them down with you.  This is also why I feel the movie was successful in a way few others were, that is portraying the resistance as an actual resistance movement getting by on a wing and a prayer and asking the question that even Rogue One only kind of sorta asked i.e. what happens when just being brave and willing to sacrifice isn't enough?  What happens when there's no cavalry coming and no hope of a true victory?

 

One thing I will say is that the scene shortly after the opening battle where Leia gets blown out into space and forces herself back felt a little on the dumb side.  It's actually a little incongruous with the rest of the movie and what we've seen in the setting.  Even force prodigies need real training or their skills only really boil down to pseudo sixth sense or barely being able to move your lightsaber from the other side of the room by staring at it angrily...and if she had that level of training, then why is Luke the last Jedi and Leia not lightsabering it up?  It's just a jarring and odd scene and if you wanted to have Leia not be present for a set run time, having her be just out of the bridge when it goes up and get knocked out by the explosion does the same thing without raising odd questions.  for me this was the worst scene because it just felt like it was unnecessarily complex just for fan service or weird gotcha!/ex machina moment and given how much the movie plays with ex-machinas that makes it doubly weird.

 

Speaking of, man they sure off a lot of characters in this movie.  Ackbar dies with like 5 seconds on screen, Snoke does an evil rant before being cut in half.  We get about a minute of screen time for some random A-Wing pilot who promptly gets obliterated, but that one crewman on the bomber gets all the screen time.  It's like the DM was going through the non-essential character list and killing off everyone who didn't nat 20 that ****...and apparently Ello Asty somehow made the cut despite being in every battle, but still got trivial screen time.  I actually liked Snoke's death and Kylo's progression because it felt like a legitimate point of character development for him as he goes from seeking approval to carving his own path.  In fact the character progression in general is pretty solid throughout.  Poe has to learn that being doesn't just mean being a good pilot and being willing to take risks, but also knowing when to cut your losses.  Finn is almost unrecognizable, from his original appearance in the franchise and Rey has to go down the Luke character trajectory of accepting that Kylo may be beyond saving.  Also, Captain Phasma has to complete her mandatory Boba Fett character arc of growling a few lines in one movie, then dying in a stupid fashion by falling down a hole in the next.

 

The best parts of the movie were the Jedi training and interactions between Luke/Rey and Kylo/Rey.  The force training and light side/dark side struggles can be tedious and lengthy in these movies and this almost hits Empire levels of being not simply watchable, but actually good and engaging.  It's also refreshing that someone finally acknowledges that the Jedi mythology is just that, a myth.  They were just normal people who use the force and be fooled like anyone else.  I'm also pretty okay with Snoke not having a backstory and just being a random and powerful dark side master that gets offed by his pupil (as is the tradition). 

 

On thing that also sets the movie apart...again sort of like ESB...is a lack of real McGuffins, doom weapons or load bearing evil plans.  It's interesting because they play like it's going to be a thing at points, but it really isn't and even the successes they have are never quite enough which does a great job of showing just how desperate the Resistance is and why, even when they are effective, suicide attacks and brave sacrifices are not enough.  The First Order is just too big to give a **** about losing one ship so trading will simply never work which plays into Poe's character arc where he just has to accept that sometimes you can't win and need to just try to survive to fight the next battle.

 

Also, if you can't admit that the lightsaber fight after Snoke's death was the best in the series, then you're just lying to yourself because that was great and the scene with the cruiser hyperspacing through the First Order fleet is easily a top 5 moment for the entire franchise.  The final desperate ground battle was cool to watch even if it ends about as well as Hoth.

 

The worst part of the movie for me was the part in Casino Von Debauchery or whatever that planet was called.  It felt like they looked at the script and were like "Man, we're like a planet short of our quota for this movie, let's add some more scenes".  It wasn't boring so much as it just felt like it was from a completely different movie and feels pretty skippable even though there is some minor payoffs to it.

 

Overall, the movie has received some mixed reactions and I can understand that.  How long did it take for ESB to get recognition as one of the strongest movies in the original trilogy?  My reflex is that, the movie will hold up better to repeat viewings than some of the other installments, much like ESB, because it's about a struggle, not a victory.  It's about fighting, not winning.  There isn't a magic "make everything better button" that the heroes push, just a battle to not be wiped out.

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Honestly I think Rey and Finn are just going to be very close.   Good friends.   I think they are trying to demonstrate that a man and a woman can be very good friends... even though Finn was kinda flirting with her in Episode 7 for a bit.  

 

  BUT - If they commit to that in 9, I would hope they SHOW us the friendship rather than simply TELL us about the friendship - (I'm looking at YOU Prequel Anakin-Obi Wan "Friendship"). 

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OK, done.

As far as I'm concerned, Rogue One is such a superior Star Wars film to The Last Jedi, and it isn't even close.

Set design, world building, characterisations, practical effects, story, action sequences, tone... it comes out ahead in almost every regard.  It's a much tighter story and script as well.

TLJ does benefit from absolutely outstanding performances from Mark Hamill and Carrie Fisher and a great story arc for Kylo and Rey, but taken as a whole R1 nails it, and TLJ doesn't.

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7/10 overall.  About right, I think.  Repeating a lot of what's been covered in the thread.

 

 

The more you think about the film, though, the more it frustrates..

 

(Armada and X-Wing minis in this last one, free advertising for FFG!)

I don't think it's going to hold up with repeat viewings.

Edited by FTS Gecko

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1 hour ago, Kieransi said:

Yeah, I liked the Rose-Finn relationship! But I'm not sure about Rey-Finn tensions. I think Rey kind of gave Rose and Finn the same look at the end of the movie that Luke gave to Han and Leia.

I'm actually willing to bet there aren't actually going to be romantic tensions between Rey and anybody, and Disney was just yanking our chain with Rey hugging Finn, holding hands with Kylo, and giving a normal human smile to Poe. 

Oh, don't get me wrong. Not expecting a romance between Rey-Finn. I think Finn may believe that's what he wants, to be her big strong protector, but she doesn't need that and the connection they share will be more friends and partners. Tensions don't mean romantic tensions. Rey may feel more alone if she doesn't have Finn following her around like a lost puppy and right now with her failings, losses and new discoveries. She may need for a friend to lean on

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3 minutes ago, LagJanson said:

Rogue One had its faults, particularly through the first act. To be honest, all the Star Wars films have critical flaws. To me Star Wars films ere never about breaking new ground or perfecting cinema... It's a fun fantasy that's more escapism. TLJ achieved that.

Yeah, Star Wars is, at its heart, supposed to be fun. If you want science fiction and not fun, that's what Star Trek is for. I personally loved Rogue One, but the biggest part of that is because it added depth to a universe that I find unbelievably fun. I would've been very disappointed if this movie didn't have jokes in it, or random sideplots and comic relief. The original trilogy was full of that kind of stuff. This was just as much of a Star Wars movie as Rogue One or any of the original trilogy. 

Great work Disney! Keep it up! 

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