Jump to content
IG88E

Star Wars 8 - The Last Jedi - Reviews (SPOILERS!!)

Recommended Posts

I really don't get the hate this movie is getting, I thought it was great. It's almost like some people would prefer if we got Empire v2.0, in the vein of TFA being ANH v2.0, instead of something different. I appreciate that it wasn't what I expected going in, it was interesting where the went with things. Being the hero, or a legend in Luke's case, shouldn't be easy. Finn wants to run again, Poe tries to solve all of their problems through heroics and bravado, Lukes fails, admittedly in spectacular fashion, and tries to just fade away. In that respect the movie is somewhat similar to Empire, bringing most of the characters to their lowest point, it just takes the time in this movie to resolve their dilemmas to set up the next one. The development that mostly happens off-screen for Empire to Jedi we got in the actual movie this time. Everything with Kylo, Rey and Luke was great, the only thing I was really meh on was the horse dogs, thought not the entire sequence.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm American and my theatre was full of hardcore star wars nerds (or at least my section was because the conversations were close to the debates we got into on here) and almost everyone was cheering and clapping or laughing at all the beats. 

I just remember when my British friend visited and we went to go see Harry Potter, which elicited similar reactions, and she was appalled. Maybe boisterous audiences are an American thing?

Edited by Forresto

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, Forresto said:

I'm American and my theatre was full of hardcore star wars nerds (or at least my section was because the conversations were close to the debates we got into on here) and almost everyone was cheering and clapping or laughing at all the beats. 

I just remember when my British friend visited and we went to go see Harry Potter, which elicited similar reactions, and she was appalled. Maybe boisterous audiences are an American thing?

The disaster artist got a 5 minute standing ovation same cinema one week before it's not like we dont clap at films we love like idiots that dont realise the movie makers will never know.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

very tangentially related, but the recent movie ranking thread got me thinking about the memes these movies spawn

I don't feel like we're getting many out of the new triology because everything already seems pretty silly and goofy. The choicest memes come from the prequels where everything is played seriously but is just so bizarrely executed that it comes off as hilarious

but then I was also thinking about Rogue One, where everything is played mostly seriously (rip K-2so) but the movie was just so dull that because every rogue-1 original character has nothing quotable

apart from "I am one with the force, the force is one with me" and basically everything Saw Gerrera because his voice + his attempt to be intimidating = basically one of the most enjoyable things in that movie

LIES!!! DECEPTION!!!!

it's just a weird thing I've noticed that Disney star wars can't really meme

Edited by ficklegreendice

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Obi Juan Kenobi said:

Snoke and Luke I guess you mean? I said earlier in one of my posts that I wanted to see one of the 'old crew' do something really significant in the final chapter; that isn't going to happen now and it saddens me.

I was talking more Luke and Leia.  Spacewalk aside, Mark and Carrie's performances really grounded the movie in their respective scenes, and gave it a lot of heart and soul.

Couldn't really care less about Snoke, we knew very little about the guy, learned even less, and his grandstanding in front of Rey was Bond-villain cringeworthy.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Speaking of the theme of "learning from your failures"...

Hundred of people, the last vestiges of the Resistance, all of the survivors' friends and coworkers, are just treated as disposable pawns to teach Poe a lesson about leadership.  Sure, dozens of people died in the Dreadnought assault because he disobeyed orders, sure 90% of the transports got shot down to the harebrained scheme he and Finn thought up, but at least he learned to use his head sometimes!

Tonally it's just horrible.  That's been bugging me this whole time.  All of our friends died, but at least Poe learned a lesson!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Imagine the buzz this movie would have it it ended with an X-wing rising from the water, or flying away from the island. I felt deflated after watching Luke fade away, though it was done well, if he lived we would have something to talk about. This movie ended with a nameless (at the time) force sensitive kid looking into the stars, probably foreshadowing the future of the franchise.  I know they want the new heroes to take over, and Leia was going to have a huge role in 9, but now Luke can't have a huge impact (it's probably more about my childhood hero needed more to do to save the Galaxy) 

As it stands, we have no idea what will happen to our heroes. They are going to the outer rim, but to what. There can't be some huge force out there, or it would have come to help when they sent out the signal. Maybe Battlefront 2 will explore the outer rim in the next DLC. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

thinking about it some more, a big difference between laughing at stupid prequel memes and groaning at something like the humor in the Finn/Rose story might have something to do with agency

for example, let's contrast the casino prison with "hello there!"

in "hello there!" Obi-Wan can influence the course of events with his actions. He's free to act, no one knows he's there. It is the fact that he chooses to hop on down in the middle of the entire droid army, not be noticed and then decide to declare his presence that make it perhaps THE most stupid/wonderful moment in the entire prequel trilogy imo

but Finn/Rose? They don't get to do anything. They never get to do anything. Poor bastards just blunder into whoever they need to find, blunder into capture, and get saved by bb-8 (both on the casion and on snoke's ship!)

 

just food for thought

Edited by ficklegreendice

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 minutes ago, ficklegreendice said:

but then I was also thinking about Rogue One, where everything is played mostly seriously (rip K-2so) but the movie was just so dull that because every rogue-1 original character has nothing quotable

I find that answer vague and unconvincing.

Oh its beautiful! 

Hope!

We stand here amidst my creation, not yours!

Try not to choke on your aspirations Director.

Bring me a hammer head corvette!

This is a rebellion isn't it? I rebel!

When has become now Director, the Emperor will tolerate no further delay. You have made time an ally of the rebellion!

Failure will have you explaining why to a far less patient audience. 

Lord Vader will handle the fleet, target the scarf facility, single reactor ignition. You may fire when ready!

~

There are plenty of quotable lines and tons of memes generated. However I think what is a sign of good writing is that rather then just quotable lines, there are memorable transactions of dialogue especially between Krennic and practically every character he talks to. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, Forresto said:

I find that answer vague and unconvincing.

Oh its beautiful! 

Hope!

We stand here amidst my creation, not yours!

Try not to choke on your aspirations Director.

Bring me a hammer head corvette!

This is a rebellion isn't it? I rebel! <--

When has become now Director, the Emperor will tolerate no further delay. You have made time an ally of the rebellion!

Failure will have you explaining why to a far less patient audience. 

Lord Vader will handle the fleet, target the scarf facility, single reactor ignition. You may fire when ready!

~

There are plenty of quotable lines and tons of memes generated. However I think what is a sign of good writing <-- is that rather then just quotable lines, there are memorable transactions of dialogue especially between Krennic and practically every character he talks to. 

latest?cb=20160623042518

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 minutes ago, FTS Gecko said:

I was talking more Luke and Leia.  Spacewalk aside, Mark and Carrie's performances really grounded the movie in their respective scenes, and gave it a lot of heart and soul.

Couldn't really care less about Snoke, we knew very little about the guy, learned even less, and his grandstanding in front of Rey was Bond-villain cringeworthy.

I’m curious: what’s your feeling about Palpatine? 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, ficklegreendice said:

thinking about it some more, a big difference between laughing at stupid prequel memes and groaning at something like the humor in the Finn/Rose story might have something to do with agency

for example, let's contrast the casino prison with "hello there!"

in "hello there!" Obi-Wan can influence the course of events with his actions. He's free to act, no one knows he's there. It is the fact that he chooses to hop on down in the middle of the entire droid army, not be noticed and then decide to declare his presence that make it perhaps THE most stupid/wonderful moment in the entire prequel trilogy imo

but Finn/Rose? They don't get to do anything. They never get to do anything. Poor bastards just blunder into whoever they need to find, blunder into capture, and get saved by bb-8 (both on the casion and on snoke's ship!)

 

just food for thought

Agency is a huge issue with the ST as a whole so far.  In the OT, the plot moves forward largely due to people's choices and actions.  People actively rescue the main characters in times of need etc. in ways that overall make sense.

In the ST... Finn just survives stuff.  Catastrophic vehicle crashes.  Falls down elevator shafts.  Huge hangar-bay explosions.  Rarely does any choice he makes matter for the overall plot.  He COULD be a really good character!  But he basically doesn't change at all from TFA to TLJ, follows the exact same boring arc, and continues to be the beneficiary of raw dumb luck.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
14 hours ago, ficklegreendice said:

actually, if you had an infinitely long table, that's exactly how it'd go down in Armada :P

the tiny res ship with enough distance would just outpace a ship's commanded squadrons, because the commanded squadrons have to activate before the FO ships move

Is it wrong that I was thinking about this exactly like this the whole time? So it never even bugged me? :)

 

For the starfighters thing (more directed at @markcsoul, @Jo Jo, and @Azrapse) I think the few TIEs we see in the movie were all they had, so they were budgeting them. It's kind of like why the Battle of Midway and the Battle of Coral Sea were such huge victories for the United States - the Japanese air force lost a huge amount (actually most) of their skilled pilots. So yes, they had airplanes, but they didn't have any good pilots to fly them, which is why the Turkey Shoot and Kamikazes happened. The fact that Kylo lost Backdraft and Quickdraw in that opening battle was huge - it meant Kylo was likely their last surviving skilled ace from the first movie. By the way, this exact WWII-style plot contrivance is copied from the Original Trilogy - the Empire lost most of their skilled pilots (Black Squadron) at the Battle of Yavin, and that's why the many, many TIEs at Cloud City and the Battle of Endor were so easy to kill. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 minutes ago, Mrk1984 said:

Imagine the buzz this movie would have it it ended with an X-wing rising from the water, or flying away from the island. I

 Believe me, this would have made me ecstatic. Seeing Luke force crush the walkers would have been exultant. 

But upon reflection, I think those would have been wrong for Luke and the story and would have been reduced to mere fan service. Luke’s force projection and then passing into the Force were actually perfect. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, BlodVargarna said:

I’m curious: what’s your feeling about Palpatine? 

Palpatine is a total red herring for these conversations.

An Empire implies and Emperor.  He must exist.  It's no surprise that he exists.  Beyond that, things we see:

He's smart. Cunning. Sinister. He has a plan. They set up that he's orchestrating everything early on. It's clear what his role is, and he toys with Luke for a major portion of the last chapter, building actual tension and giving insight into his near-complete hold over Vader.  There's no mystery of how or why he's in power.

Snoke, on the other hand, exists where he shouldn't (How the **** did he become Supreme Leader?  What has an ancient, powerful, evil being been up to this whole time?  Why was he just able to casually invade the minds of Luke's pupils?), and just as we start to get a feel for what he's all about, NEVERMIND, DEAD.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, Forresto said:

I find that answer vague and unconvincing.

Oh its beautiful! 

Hope!

We stand here amidst my creation, not yours!

Try not to choke on your aspirations Director.

Bring me a hammer head corvette!

This is a rebellion isn't it? I rebel!

When has become now Director, the Emperor will tolerate no further delay. You have made time an ally of the rebellion!

Failure will have you explaining why to a far less patient audience. 

Lord Vader will handle the fleet, target the scarf facility, single reactor ignition. You may fire when ready!

Congratulations.  You are being rescued.  Please do not resist.

Do you want to know the odds of her using it against you?  They're high.  Very high.

I'm one with the Force, the Force is with me.

We'll take the next chance... and the next... until we win, or the chances are spent.

Make ten men feel like one hundred.

Your Highness, the transmission we recieved... what is it they've sent us?

Hope.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Just imagine this movie:

-without some of the worst slap-stick parts (e.g. Poe and this “suit” spewing liquid out in thin beams everywhere)

-a proper space combat scene against the dreadnaught at the begining.

-no crazy Leia space scene.

-a Resistiance general making daring combat maneuvers with the captital ships, instead of just running while being pounded. All while Finn etc. finds the code-breaker.

- Snoke reaveling himself to be a reanimated sith-lord from Korriban like Exar-Kun or Tulak Hord. And imposing some of the strict Sith-code on Kylo and torturing Rey slowly turning her to the dark-side. Perhaps ending with him and Kylo facing eachother it in the ancient tradition and Kylo succeding him, just to be overwhelmed mentaly by Luke who then frees Rey. 

- Captain Phasma fighting (and owning it) the boarding party and Chewie sent to resuce Rey. With Chewie, Finn, Rey, BB-8 barely making it out alive. 

-BB-8 fighting BB-9E. 

SO MANY WASTED OPPORTUNITIES

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Just got back from seeing The Last Jedi … impressions (needless to say – SPOILERS AHEAD!).

Overall, a good, solid Star Wars movie.  Not great – I’d certainly put it behind Empire Strikes Back, Star Wars, and Rogue One, perhaps on par with Return of the Jedi, slightly better than The Force Awakens.

Likes:
-    Plot mostly wasn’t derivative – I was expecting an ESB rehash. It had pieces of that (Rey training) but not in a bad way and as necessary.  Though change the opening location to Yavin and closing location to Hoth and you have a plot that shoehorns well into the original trilogy.
-    Good battle scenes as bookends (with some issues, below).
-    The Luke-Rey-Kylo dynamic was excellent; good character growth, tension, some backstory/history/ certain point of view appropriate to Star Wars.
-    Nothing wrong with the odd lightsaber fight or two in a core movie.
-    Poe’s still one **** of a pilot.
-    BB-8 still steals scenes.
-    Porgs are cute without going all Ewok. 
-    Other funky monsters & aliens, good for a Star Wars movie.
-    We now know where blue milk comes from!
-    Yoda nod.  Cheesy, but I liked it.
-    Sith apprentice nod with Kylo/Snoke. Nice to set Kylo up to be the final BBEG for the last movie.
-    Luke’s … death isn’t the right word.  I expected him to die; thought they handled it well.  
-    Rey has no special backstory. Sure, Kylo could be lying, but I hope he’s not because it’s too trite to make her a Skywalker (or Kenobi, or insert fanfic here).
-    Discussion of what the Force is … without midichlorians or Star Wars physics mumbo jumbo.

Dislikes:
-    Cell phone jokes at the opening.  Too soon, Junior.
-    The First Order is a horrible military. Like: don’t launch fighters in any of your battles (except Kylo and two wingmen) until way too late.  Don’t flank – everything’s a frontal assault. Oh, and you’re chasing an opponent who is retreating at your maximum speed? Instead of chasing for days, maybe, you know … hyperspace ahead of them and cut them off?
-    Flying ice Leia.  I mean, Star Wars physics, but c’mon.
-    Gravity bombs. In space. One baby bomber kills super-dreadnaught. Sigh … Star Wars physics getting silly.
-    “I’m too smart to tell anyone my plan” Admiral. There was a plan – why not explain? Would have been a good opportunity to fix the next issue …
-    The entire Finn-Rose subplot adds nothing to the movie.  They wander off, accomplish exactly nothing, and end up back with everyone for the finale. You could have had a subplot with them finding a spy or tracker on the cruiser (which would have fit with the tight-lipped Admiral trying not to give an advantage to the spy) and accomplished more, plus saved 30-odd minutes of movie.  Sure, you can’t introduce White Lando, but at the moment he’s pointless anyway.
-    Look, all-powerful evil dude! Poof … he’s gone! Could have worked in a little Snoke and rise of First Order backstory; opportunity wasted.
-    I expected Leia to die, too frankly – would have been better to kill her off in this movie.
-    Resuscitating Phasma for yet another dubious death scene. Now she’s 2x as useless as Boba Fett (again, delete the whole Finn arc and it really tightens up the movie).
-    Hyperwave comms mumbo-jumbo.  Feels too Star Trek.
-     Timelines.  Seems too rushed – could have been spread out a bit more.
-    First Order is mustache-twirling evil. Sure, that’s a trope – but it could be more nuanced.

-    Chekov’s X-Wing didn’t pay off.

Anyway – worth seeing, and probably worth seeing twice; I’m sure my thoughts will evolve on a second viewing.
 

Edited by Hawkstrike

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I liked it. 

I think its one of my favorite Star Wars movies, up there with Rogue One and Empire. There were some flaws to it, like I didn't like that Luke had enough power to broadcast his image across the galaxy in such a manner that everyone there saw (and not just the force sensitive like Kylo Ren and Leia) yet have him fade away a few minutes later. Just have him levitate the X-Wing (as a nod to his past failure) and have him go fight Kylo Ren in person. There were a few lines of dialogue that I think fell flat, but overall I really enjoyed the twist with Snoke's unexpected end and Kylo's "F it, burn it all down" outlook on life.

I do also like that it seems that Ello Asty is the new Wedge. Dude's made it through two movies so far.  Never mind, me being a dirty speciesist. He is a mutineer though, like Poe, and I think they got off a little light for that.

Edited by kris40k

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, RedHotDice said:

Snoke reaveling himself to be a reanimated sith-lord from Korriban like Exar-Kun or Tulak Hord. And imposing some of the strict Sith-code on Kylo and torturing Rey slowly turning her to the dark-side. Perhaps ending with him and Kylo facing eachother it in the ancient tradition and Kylo succeding him, just to be overwhelmed mentaly by Luke who then frees Rey. 

I have to say, the way this part of the storyline went (from the time Rey was captured to the time she left Snoke's ship) was my favorite part of the whole movie. The way she always had faith in Kylo to turn to the Light Side, but once he didn't, she didn't join him was perfect. 

I was really, really worried going in that this was going to be Legacy all over again - I liked most of that series, but I really didn't want to see

Snoke=Darth Krayt

Rey=Cade Skywalker

Kylo=Darth Talon 

which was what I was half expecting. For those of you who didn't read Legacy (and I don't really blame you) the way this plotline would've gone is that Rey gets captured, converted to the Dark Side, has a brief romance with Kylo, and then confronts all the Sith, kills Kylo, fights Snoke, almost killing him as well, all with the guidance of Luke's spirit. I was actually pleasantly surprised that for the first time since Luke in the original trilogy, we had a hero who was never going to be converted to the Dark Side or romantically interested in a bad guy. I hope they keep it that way. Rey is basically concept-art Luke anyway, so if they mess up Rey's character, they're messing up Luke's character too.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
16 minutes ago, BlodVargarna said:

 Believe me, this would have made me ecstatic. Seeing Luke force crush the walkers would have been exultant. 

But upon reflection, I think those would have been wrong for Luke and the story and would have been reduced to mere fan service. Luke’s force projection and then passing into the Force were actually perfect. 

His force projection and passing was done very well (just deflated knowing he with very little to do in the new trilogy), but it would have worked better if he didn't project a younger version and if he used his green saber.  As it was, the audience knew something wasn't right. I could excuse the no foot prints in the Salt as an advanced fighting technique allowing faster movement by not actually touching the ground, but young Luke and blue saber meant he wasn't there. My childhood just wants a more heroic luke post RotJ and unless they somehow revisit a time before his school, it doesn't look like it will happen. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


×
×
  • Create New...