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Star Wars 8 - The Last Jedi - Reviews (SPOILERS!!)

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32 minutes ago, Ktan said:

This isn't to point fingers at you personally, Green Squadron Pilot, but your comment about Rose being a speeder pilot reminded me of an idea I've been rolling around in my head.

 

A substantial amount of the population can drive. Not everyone, and some people chose not too, but it's a skill a huge proportion of the population learn.

Now, there is no doubt that flying is exponentially harder, but it is something that even an amateur can learn. (Heck, Harrison Ford flies for fun. And only occasionally crashes.)

Given that atmospheric craft and ships are SO prevalent in Star Wars, I don't personally think it's a massive stretch that most people in the SW Universe can at least operate a ship or a speeder, much like your average person can drive.

Also, there has probably been substantial development in making spacecraft easier for amateurs to fly. Kind of like how we've, over time, added things like ABS to cars. We also know from extended lore that even on a backwater planet like Jakku Rey had access to a flight simulator.

I think also the fact Rose seems to be an engineer accounts for a lot of her expertise in other areas.

The T-65 was designed in a way that its controlls mostly match that of the civillian used T-16 skyhopper to give the Alliance a better access to new pilots.

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4 minutes ago, RogueLeader42 said:

Especially as one of these transporters was able to outrun the fireball created by the siege Dreadnought at the beginnen...

Which is fine its the shockwave that it should of died too given it was unshielded.

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4 minutes ago, RogueLeader42 said:

The T-65 was designed in a way that its controlls mostly match that of the civillian used T-16 skyhopper to give the Alliance a better access to new pilots.

 

I know that was a piece of Legends content, but I expect it's not just the T-65 designed with that in mind. People in the wider canon seem to switch between all sorts of ships like they are hire cars, even ones designed before the person was born (For example, Leia in an N-1)

Edited by Ktan

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13 minutes ago, Hobojebus said:

Which is fine its the shockwave that it should of died too given it was unshielded.

Should've. Not should of. Think about it grammatically for a second. Should of. What is the should, here? The should of somebody's, something's?

Should've, however, is a conjunction between should have. "Should have done" to, "Should've". Seen the mistake a couple times now, wanted to help out with this one.

Would've sent this privately but for some reason it just didn't take, sorry dude.

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18 hours ago, debiler said:

I'm asking you nicely to partake in an ongoing discussion, not interrupt it by posting one-liners only to agitate people.

I’m honestly thinking about blocking of muting @BlodVargarna. His posts are needlessly confrontational and it makes coming here unpleasant. 

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18 hours ago, debiler said:

I'm asking you nicely to partake in an ongoing discussion, not interrupt it by posting one-liners only to agitate people.

I’m honestly thinking about blocking of muting @BlodVargarna. His posts are needlessly confrontational and it makes coming here unpleasant.

I absolutely hated space Leia. She was out there for a while before she “forced” her way back to the ship. In that time she all of her blood vessels would have exploded and she’d be a frozen lump of meat. 

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18 hours ago, debiler said:

I'm asking you nicely to partake in an ongoing discussion, not interrupt it by posting one-liners only to agitate people.

I’m honestly thinking about blocking of muting @BlodVargarna. His posts are needlessly confrontational and it makes coming here unpleasant.

I absolutely hated space Leia. She was out there for a while before she “forced” her way back to the ship. In that time she all of her blood vessels would have exploded and she’d be a frozen lump of meat. 

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18 hours ago, debiler said:

I'm asking you nicely to partake in an ongoing discussion, not interrupt it by posting one-liners only to agitate people.

I’m honestly thinking about blocking of muting @BlodVargarna. His posts are needlessly confrontational and it makes coming here unpleasant.

I absolutely hated space Leia. She was out there for a while before she “forced” her way back to the ship. In that time she all of her blood vessels would have exploded and she’d be a frozen lump of meat. 

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18 hours ago, debiler said:

I'm asking you nicely to partake in an ongoing discussion, not interrupt it by posting one-liners only to agitate people.

I’m honestly thinking about blocking of muting @BlodVargarna. His posts are needlessly confrontational and it makes coming here unpleasant.

I absolutely hated space Leia. She was out there for a while before she “forced” her way back to the ship. In that time she all of her blood vessels would have exploded and she’d be a frozen lump of meat. 

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14 hours ago, Princezilla said:

Probably given that they just casually threw Akbar out an airlock without giving him a single significant line. There was zero respect for any character who had appeared in prior works and in fact the disrespect for them was so aggressive it seemed deliberate.

I wouldn't call it disrespect but rather doing the unexpected at every turn just for the sake of it. 

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The standard line of defence for TFA was "you don't like it because your are a nazi", it looks like this time it will be " you don't like it because you are dumb"...

(insert To be fair... meme)

Guys, it's completely possible to get all the in-your-face morals and "original" "deconstructions" (meaning "let's copy a scene from OT and add a little twist at the end") and still dislike the movie. 

I had no theories about Snoke and Rey, if you dig deep enough in my post history you will find I predicted they will be nobodies long time ago and was thoroughly entertained imagining the outrage. Yet here I am, together with the shippers and theorists, not because I'm dumb, or because Johnson smashed my fanfic, but because I didn't like this movie.

I enjoyed Luke-Rey-Kylo-Snoke scenes, if they cut out the inappropriate humoru and... the rest of the film, it would be a solid piece of Star Wars, even though I'm deeply worried about presenting the Dark and Light as a cycle, which goes against the previously established dynamics and diminishes Luke's achievement, but then again, TFA already rendered the whole original trilogy pointless, this movie just continued down Abrams' path.

Ah, and shame the budget was so tight they didn't have money to fill the redscreen in Snoke's thorne room.

The rest of the movie is terrible. The opening battle... I hate superhero Poe, space battles are stripped out of any form of tension if you have a character that explodes TIE fighters by looking at them. The in-your-face moral #1 is basically Ahsoka in "The Storm Over Ryloth", except that unlike Ahsoka Poe doesn't learn from it, and it all falls flat because Poe was ultimately right... how would the snail chase look like if Snoke had a "fleet killer" with him? How would the battle of Hoth look like with a nuke dispenser in orbit?

Hux was a parody of Hitler in the first movie, easily the worst character in the overall weak The Force Awakens, I didn't think he could get any worse, but in The Last Jedi he acts like a character from Space Balls.

Speaking of humour is off-putting, very few jokes connect and they stuffed it everywhere, every **** scene has to contain a slapstick or a quip or preferably both. It all makes the movie feel like a parody of Star Wars, not a genuine episode. It's not even The Orville vs Star Trek, with the former being a more humorous take on the later, it's straight up Space Balls.

Not a single scene in the B-team segment (the chase+casino) makes any sense whatsoever within the Star Wars universe and even within the The Last Jedi universe. It's a series of convinient accidents and plotholes in plotholes riddled with plotholes. covering plotholes.

The whole premise is indefensible - we see a flight of three TIEs taking out Raddus' bridge and hangar with no effort, yet for some reason no more fighters, out of thousands that are available to the megagigauber-class, are sent till the end of the movie. 

The movie multiple times demonstrates that you can just jump in and join the caravan - Rey does that (I assume she finds Kylo through the Force connection? She can't be using the tracker, unless she assumed Leia is on Kylo's ship), and xXx_69haxor69_xXx does that - then why doesn't the First Order call in more ships, either faster ones or just drop in front of the Rebel fleet?

Why not hyperspace smash smaller Rebel ships into the fleet before they run out of fuel?

Why not split up and save smaller ships?

I get that Umbridge didn't have to tell Poe her plan, but maybe she should have done that after she got mutiny'd? What was that, pride? "Oh, you don't trust me so we will all die"? Or just Rian Johnson exercising one of the countless predictable cliche "plot twists" disregarding any common sense?

What was Finn's plan, are lifeboats hyperspace capable?

Leia's space flight, eh... Go watch Rebels for how this should be done (S03E03, Kanan gets spaced by Maul), but this is yet another cheap bait and switch that Rian Johnson loves so dearly. No reason for this scene to exist except "ha, you thought Leia is dead, GOTCHA! SUBVERTING EXPECTATIONS! I'M A POSTMODERNIST MOVIE GENIUS!!!!!"

It's stunning how much ******* First Order janitors know. It was unbeliveable that Finn knew where is the weak spot of the planet sized Death Star, but apparently he also knows where a super secret new tracking wunderwafle is on Snoke's 60-km long flagship is.

I just don't have words for the casino subplot. In the middle of the thrilling chase, with just 16 hours of fuel left in the flagship, Finn and Rose call Maz (atrocious cameo) and learn that a)there is one person in the galaxy who can help them b) Maz conveniently knows where that person is right now, or conveniently he always is in one place c) that place is a planet convinently close enough to reach it, find the guy (in a huge, popular casino), and go back, later they find out that d) convinently there is a second guy who can do that e) convinently he is on the same planet f) convinently he was captured not too long before them g) convinently he was put in the same cell. Plus we waste a lot of time on some kids, some horses, and morals spelled out by Rose for the younger audience members, that would feel forced and out of place in Disney XD's Rebels, let alone here.

They ofc course failed, and that was the point, but you can make characters learn from failures without inconclusively wasting half of the screentime on a series of extremely fortunate events.

Hyperspace ramming literally breaks the setting. Literally literally, not figuratively literally. And could be done by the smaller ships earlier.

Then the huge editing mess / plot armour bonanza in the hangar...

and Phasma XDDDDDDDD

Rey obviously gets up before Kylo and runs away. Look Rian, it doesn't matter that you lampshade her MaRey Sue powers earlier in the dialogue if you do this again.

Then we go not Hoth to get another cheap bait and switch and learn how selfish is Rose. She has her reasons, but this makes the character even more unlikeable.

People say Luke didn't leave steps in the salt... but he touched Leia, and gave her a projection of dice, I'm a bit confused about the physicality of this projection.

We end with the whole Rebellion (they stopped calling it Resistance midway the movie) consisting of a dozen people and Rey about to succesfully restart the Jedi Order with zero training and some books. I wanted to walk out of the cinema, and... well the movie ended so I did.

The lack of vision, of scope, any sense of scale, it's depressing. Seeing the casino, space battles, fleets of capital ships in the trailers I hoped that maybe we are going back to the Galaxy far far away, that Rian will try to fix what Abrams broke, introduce the New Republic, show us new interesting places, show us the grand scheme of things, the big picture, but he doubles down on the worst failiures of TFA, doesn't lift a finger to steer the saga back on track... and the saga is going down the path I can't follow, which breaks my heart. Episode 9 will be like superhero movies - the final battle with a dozen dudes punching each other. Someone said that maybe Filoni could fix this era like he did for many people with The Clone Wars, but I don't believe it is possible even for the only person left in Lucasfilms who understands Star Wars. With the Clone Wars we had blanks to fill, countless adventures and interesting events spread throughout the three years of the largest war the Galaxy has seen in a thousand years. Sequels... between the start of The Force Awakens and the end of The Last Jedi there is maybe a week. The whole New Republic with all its assets gets taken out of the picture with one strike and a few days long campaign.

I didn't mention BB-8 at all because I repressed all the memories containg it. Every single scene with that thing was just so unbeliveably bad I wished they replaced it with Jar Jar.

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42 minutes ago, __underscore__ said:

Well they couldn't have him speak, the voice actor died a little after TFA. It might be considered more disrespectful to have someone do an impression.

That's actually a really good point

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I really liked the movie.

Yoda explains the overall theme to Luke. Failure is our greatest teacher and choosing what looks like the easy way has consequences.

Every character deals with it and the movie is built around it. The only wise characters are Yoda & Leia. Everyone else is a mess and learning the hard way from some significant mistakes. We all complained about how "perfect" Rey was in TFA....well here you go now every hero is massively flawed. Even Luke ( kudos to Mark Hamil being a great actor ) hes still dealing with the consequences of choosing not to complete his training. Yoda shows up to help him do that and heal from years of living in fear.

This isnt just a "good guys vs bad guys" pew pew pew someone wins movie. Its not super deep either, but it does at least have a theme that it fully commits to.

The first scene where Poe fights the First Order and gets a bunch of people killed Leia calls him out on it. Luke fails Yoda basically, his fear of Kylo overwhelmed him partially creating Kylo, same as it lead him to cofront Vader to soon. Finn/Rose/Poe fail the resistance with their selfish side quest, they criticize selfish wealthy arms deals at the same time that they selfishly act out on their own without the rest of the resistiances plans being shown any respect. Del Toro calls them on it immediatly asking them why they are so sure they are right. Rose sorta figure it out when she saves Finn from his dumb self doing a selfishly heroic thing to destroy the gun but is ultimately pointless since it wont work and they need him. Rey fails to turn Kylo and more importantly she almost immediately fails her training leaning towards the dark side in her first session with Luke. Then she fails big time by fighting luke and running off to do what she thinks is right but absolutely isnt. 

She chooses the easy way to respond to what is most directly in front of her and chase after Kylo. That inevitably fails, Snoke tricked her sure but more accurately she chose the easy way to react to her fear without pause without calm peaceful reasoning. Shes been an emotional rage monster since the flash back scene in TFA, which only seems to have just started to change after her failure to turn Kylo in this movie. Though again, she skipped out on her training same as Luke did, that will have a significant cost that may be greater than just losing Kylo entirely to the dark side.

Patience and seeing the correct choice in the hardest moments. Yoda's been talking about that since Empire. 

No body wins but the good fight still matters and there is a right choice even if its hard to see. That idea comes up over and over right up to full time.

We all have to wait for the 3rd movie to see which side wins out "light or dark" and more importantly who actually learns a lesson from their failures like Kylo did from TFA to TLJ and Luke did by the end of TLJ.

Edited by Boom Owl

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1 hour ago, eMeM said:

Why not split up and save smaller ships?

Yup.

"They're tracking us through hyperspace!  OK - split the fleet up - spread out the ships, everyone jump to different co-ordinates and head for the Outer Rim!"

"No, I've got a better idea - let's all stick together in a tight group and slowly sub-light away while being relentlessly pounded by the First Order fleet until a: our shields fail, b: we run out of fuel or c: both!"

Bleeeaaaaaaaargh.

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4 minutes ago, FTS Gecko said:

Yup.

"They're tracking us through hyperspace!  OK - split the fleet up - spread out the ships, everyone jump to different co-ordinates and head for the Outer Rim!"

"No, I've got a better idea - let's all stick together in a tight group and slowly sub-light away while being relentlessly pounded by the First Order fleet until a: our shields fail, b: we run out of fuel or c: both!"

Bleeeaaaaaaaargh.

It wasn’t a great choice, but I think the leadership felt a need to stay together since their numbers were already so few. 

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Many of the comments I’ve seen, positive and negative, have common traits: they’re either too narrow or too broad.

I’m not going to take the time right now to call them all out individually because I need to make breakfast for my children. 

So if you’re reading this and you have a complaint or a compliment for the film, especially any of the controversies already discussed, I suggest you try two things. 

“Look closer.” - Rose

”Reach out.” - Luke (not with your hand)

The Last Jedi is a flawed movie.

The Last Jedi is a great Star Wars movie. 

Context for my next comment: I’ve cried twice in the last ten years. Once when my grandfather died. Once when I thought I was dying on an emergency room gurney. I am not a crying person. 

There were parts of The Last Jedi I wanted to shed a tear for. I laughed. I clapped. I cringed at some gross errors. I walked away with the one thing I wanted most from the movie, an enjoyable Star Wars experience shared with someone I love. (My wife won’t read this, but I’m talking about her anyway.)

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9 minutes ago, jmswood said:

Many of the comments I’ve seen, positive and negative, have common traits: they’re either too narrow or too broad.

I’m not going to take the time right now to call them all out individually because I need to make breakfast for my children. 

So if you’re reading this and you have a complaint or a compliment for the film, especially any of the controversies already discussed, I suggest you try two things. 

“Look closer.” - Rose

”Reach out.” - Luke (not with your hand)

The Last Jedi is a flawed movie.

The Last Jedi is a great Star Wars movie. 

Context for my next comment: I’ve cried twice in the last ten years. Once when my grandfather died. Once when I thought I was dying on an emergency room gurney. I am not a crying person. 

There were parts of The Last Jedi I wanted to shed a tear for. I laughed. I clapped. I cringed at some gross errors. I walked away with the one thing I wanted most from the movie, an enjoyable Star Wars experience shared with someone I love. (My wife won’t read this, but I’m talking about her anyway.)

I agree it was a great movie. My biggest issues were the Finn/Rose storyline and the slow chase scene of death which both opened up an internet can of worms. They really took away from the movie.

which is sad because the Poe/Leia story was good and the Rey/Kylo story was incredible and picked up the slack for what Finn/Rose lacked. 

I think for some people, it was fun and kept you guessing but for others, it had too much misdirection. It really depends on what you wanted out of this movie.

Was I the only one that thought the Admiral was going to be on the First Order payroll when she was seemingly doing nothing? Lol I totally get what people are saying about how she does not have to explain her plan to insubordinates and she kept it secret to protect it. However, she also kept them in the dark enough for a mutiny to occur. Oopsie.

then they reveal she was the hero all along and goes out in a blaze of glory. Totally pulled that all together for me!

Edited by Mackaywarrior

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