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Star Wars 8 - The Last Jedi - Reviews (SPOILERS!!)

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This movie had some great scenes and some great acting, frankly somewhat ruined by a handful of bad scenes and a somewhat underwhelming fleet battle(s) .... thing going on the whole time.  

 

Loved the way they redeemed Kylo in the movie as a legit bad guy.  

Loved the way Rey was a more believable character.  

Loved Luke in this movie.

Loved PS 10 Chewie.

 

 

Did not like the Force teleconferencing.  Feelings, OK.  Face timing though? Felt like they took it too far just to fix the way they handled the two in TFA.

Did not like the opening scene, nor the space battles in general.  Didn't make sense, and didn't grab my attention.  Took until halfway through to pull me in.  Probably my biggest issue.  They tried to make it some last ditch resistance but it just felt hollow and contrived, until nearly the end of the movie.  

 

Bottom line - a more believable and epic fight between the FO and the Resistance/Republic remnants would have made a much better backdrop for the legitimately cool stuff in between.

 

 

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14 minutes ago, Joe Censored said:

One problem they introduced in this movie that has really been bugging me is when Holdo smashed her cruiser into Snoke's main ship.  This dives right into a core problem of Star Trek that is usually not seen in Star Wars, in that in Star Trek they introduce new ways of cleverly getting out of situations but then seem to have amnesia the next time they are in that situation, or it never occurred to them the dozen other times they were in that situation before. 

If you have always been able to destroy super star destroyer sized ships with relatively small cruisers, why hasn't the resistance, or the rebellion before it, or the republic from the prequels before that, been building a cheap suicide cruiser this whole time to throw at these super ships?  Mass produce suicide cruisers and take down the entire Separatist/Empire/First Order fleet and just man them with 1 droid each to point the ship and push the hyperspace lever.  The other ships running out of fuel and just getting blown up also doesn't make much sense, since if they know they are done for they should have just turned around and smashed into the First Order fleet as well. 

Interestingly the animated series has an answer to this.  You bring Interdictor cruisers to prevent hyperspace jumps, which prevents this style of attack.  But Interdictors have never been seen in any of the movies, and apparently Snoke is too cheep to buy any in the TFA time period or he would have brought them when they have the last of the resistance fleet cornered. 

Another issue is they did not want to go into hyperspace because they were just going to get tracked by the main ship.  Why not split up the fleet when fuel is running low then?  The main ship wouldn't have followed the medical frigate into hyperspace when the main cruiser doesn't jump, so would have actually had a good chance of escaping on its own.  Ughhhh....  I guess just run out of fuel and die without even trying?

The movie was pretty good, but little details like this that end up shaping larger portions of the plot keep bugging me. 

all of these are completely and utterly valid points

but if the first thing that doesn't completely boggle your ******* mind is space Leia, then I don't even know what

Edited by ficklegreendice

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Just now, ficklegreendice said:

all of these are completely and utterly valid points

but if the first thing that doesn't completely boggle your ******* mind is space Leia, then I don't even know what

I can only fit so much complaining in a single post though! :P

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7 minutes ago, Joe Censored said:

I can only fit so much complaining in a single post though! :P

fair fair

 

though as a writer, I could definitely excuse all the stupid spaceship stuff for the sake of the narrative. The ships getting picked off as they run out of fuel is more dramatic than just having the smaller ships peel off while the FO fleet continues after the one ship that matters. The hyperspace battering ram could've stood to be less effective, but it's the noble sacrifice trope and I enjoyed this movie's execution of it

 

but space leia? She could've just not been on the bridge!

Edited by ficklegreendice

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1 minute ago, ficklegreendice said:

fair fair

 

though as a writer, I could definitely excuse all the stupid spaceship stuff for the sake of the narrative. The ships getting picked off as they run out of fuel is more dramatic than just having the smaller ships peel off while the FO fleet continues after the one ship that matters. The hyperspace battering ram could've stood to be less effective, but it's the noble sacrifice trope and I enjoyed this movie's execution of it

 

but space leia? She could've just not been on the bridge!

She could of done the same thing with the smallest ship 18 hours earlier saving hundreds of lives and a functional medical frigate.

Even with less mass anything hitting you at relativistic speeds is catastrophic.

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4 hours ago, Kieransi said:

I just figured Force Ghosts were like ancestors in Mulan. They look like whenever they were last alive. So Kenobi Force Ghost secretly has Darth Maul robot legs under the robe because Vader cut him in half. 

Vader never hit Kenobi. 

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15 minutes ago, Hobojebus said:

She could of done the same thing with the smallest ship 18 hours earlier saving hundreds of lives and a functional medical frigate.

Even with less mass anything hitting you at relativistic speeds is catastrophic.

except when the Devastator burps into existence right as a few smaller rebel ships jump and smashed right into its hull like the surf upon a jagged rock, ofc

you'd think shields would stock faster moving projectiles like that

now that I think about it, all they'd need would be a throw away line

"sir! resistance transports are moving out of range!"

"divert all power to our forward batteries, I don't any getting away!"

or something similar to excuse the fact that shields don't seem to exist on snoke's ship or the dreadnought. Then it'd be all hubris and stuff, just as snoke thought he had kylo in the bag so too did hux think he had the resistance. Which is what happened, just that it left the audience thinking that hyperspace fireships seem to work really **** well in the star wars universe

 

edit: then again, rogue 1 had that hammerhead debauchery. Guess Disney just ain't very consistent with the durability of its imperial ships or of anything without plot armor (after Klyo's missiles, poe and bb-8 should have been dead as ****!)

Edited by ficklegreendice

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15 minutes ago, ficklegreendice said:

except when the Devastator burps into existence right as a few smaller rebel ships jump and smashed right into its hull like the surf upon a jagged rock, ofc

I thought the only ship seen smashing into the Devastator's hull, hadn't actually had a chance to jump - with the Devastator arriving and the (I think, Gallofree Transport) crashing into it at normal sublight velocity.

 

I didn't recall any ships actually in the process of hyperspeeding right before they hit Devastator.

 

17 minutes ago, Odanan said:

Vader never hit Kenobi. 

In From A Certain Point of View, Kenobi's short story shows his last memory before "Force Ghosting" being of the pain of Vader's saber hitting him - so it hit him, and then he "transitioned" into The Force, disappearing (and his robes immediately beginning to sag toward the ground).

 

"Space Leia" reminds me enough of Kanan's vacuum scene from The Holocrons of Fate (Episode 3, Season 3, Rebels) that it didn't bother me.

Edited by Ironlord

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Episode VII of Season 4 of Rebels (Kindred) is another one that shows "hyperspacing damages things near the hyperspacer" - Hera jumps a U-Wing variant, through the bay of a space station (it's open at both ends) and the bay takes massive damage in the process.

That gave me precedent enough to take the TLJ scene at face value.

 

Legends also took a similar approach - Curtis Saxton referenced a battlecruiser, thanks to a hyperspace malfunction, hyper jumping into a planet (and leaving it with fractures that went down to the core) in his Revenge of the Sith Incredible Cross Sections book:

 

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Quaestor

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Pammant/Legends

Edited by Ironlord

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36 minutes ago, Odanan said:

Vader never hit Kenobi. 

Actually, I agree. Like I said earlier, I like to think Kenobi died like ten years before ANH and he was a ghost the whole time. 

(Also, like I said, all of that was really a joke, I was just giving Pooleman a hard time). 

 

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44 minutes ago, drail14me said:

I left the theater depressed. They killed Luke. WTF! My childhood idol! I thought Mark did a fantastic job bringing Luke back and with dealing with the script he was given but I think Rian is a ****** for killing him off in this film and in this manner. 

Yep. Me, too. 

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Saw it this afternoon.  Can't really place it alongside the rest of the movies yet after just one viewing.  I know it probably won't end up being one of my favorites, but maybe not one of my least favorites either.  Maybe somewhere in the middle.

One thing I was worried about was the humor based on people's reviews.  It wasn't nearly as prevalent or as bad as I expected.  I think TFA has FAR worse humor actually.  Especially all the wink wink jokes at the audience it had.

The leia scene was weird, but again not nearly as bad as I was expecting.  Probably would have worked better if she instinctively used the force to keep herself from blowing out into space instead.

Probably one of my bigger disappointments was the force ghost scene.  First of all, where's obi-wan and Anakin??  Second, what the heck did they do to Yoda?  I can't tell if they built a new puppet or tried to turn the PT CGI model into a more puppet-like appearance or what, but he looked really bad when he first appeared, and didn't get a whole lot better through the scene.  Finally it was weird how he went back to his silly antics from TESB, which was mainly just done to fool Luke until he knew who he was, makes no sense now when he's an enlightened being in the netherworld.

Now I wonder how they wrap it all up.  I think a time jump is extremely likely, maybe as many as 10 years like from TPM to AOTC.  This allows time for Leia to die off screen (or make it more plausible for her to die quickly at the beginning of the movie).  Also gives time for Rey to rebuild the jedi order, the resistance to get more aid, and the FO to regroup as well.  Luke as a force ghost is pretty much a given, I'm hoping all the force ghosts return this time.  I also wonder if they would revisit Lucas's old ideas from the 80's of obi-wan returning in the flesh to aide Luke, perhaps the BIG FOUR could return in the flesh to finally rid the galaxy of evil?

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6 minutes ago, markcsoul said:

Probably one of my bigger disappointments was the force ghost scene.  First of all, where's obi-wan and Anakin??  Second, what the heck did they do to Yoda?  I can't tell if they built a new puppet or tried to turn the PT CGI model into a more puppet-like appearance or what, but he looked really bad when he first appeared, and didn't get a whole lot better through the scene.  Finally it was weird how he went back to his silly antics from TESB, which was mainly just done to fool Luke until he knew who he was, makes no sense now when he's an enlightened being in the netherworld.

In all fairness, up until Episode III, Yoda was a very old but very active member of the Jedi Council, training younglings and making policy decisions on a daily basis.  At the end of Episode III, though, he basically went into self-imposed exile on Dagobah for twenty three years (if my math is correct), until we officially meet him again in Episode V.  Over two decades with nobody to talk to but the ghost of Qui-Gon Jinn.  That's enough time for even a Jedi Master to get a little loopy, to be fair.

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3 hours ago, ficklegreendice said:

all of these are completely and utterly valid points

but if the first thing that doesn't completely boggle your ******* mind is space Leia, then I don't even know what

She literally just force grabbed herself towards The Raddus, it's not even a hard kind of force power.

19 minutes ago, BlodVargarna said:

Ahhh I hate all you haters. This movie was epic. 

Hey hey, hey, hey, over here. Favorite Star Wars film. Ahem.

2 hours ago, drail14me said:

I left the theater depressed. They killed Luke. WTF! My childhood idol! I thought Mark did a fantastic job bringing Luke back and with dealing with the script he was given but I think Rian is a ****** for killing him off in this film and in this manner. 

Luke chose to die. He did it entirely on his own terms. He could not have had a better death.

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The hyperspace ram is one of the most believable parts of the film, starships are essentially super powered projectiles, it just has wide reaching consequences for the universe now.

The Raddus is the same size if not bigger then a Resurgent class Star Destroyer. So of course it ripped through them. The Supremacy only lost part of a wing, the rest of it is fine.

Why is everyone bothered by space Leia she has the force and created a bubble around herself. Kanan did it on Rebels and Jedi did it on the Clone Wars. 

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1 hour ago, BlodVargarna said:

Ahhh I hate all you haters. This movie was epic. 

Don't hate them.  Pity them.  While the film is not perfect, much of its flaws come from not being what people imagined, including mimicking of past stories.   There are many that can't enjoy it for whatever reason.  Some people have grown bitter and jaded, and nothing would make them happy.  If these films were a direct adaptation of the old Thrawn trilogy legends books, people would still be complaining that Mara Jade wasn't right, or something else.  

 

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3 hours ago, drail14me said:

I left the theater depressed. They killed Luke. WTF! My childhood idol! I thought Mark did a fantastic job bringing Luke back and with dealing with the script he was given but I think Rian is a ****** for killing him off in this film and in this manner. 

Who says Luke is gone though?  One with the force, he has become.  Rey may still get his guidance.  

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1 hour ago, Forresto said:

The hyperspace ram is one of the most believable parts of the film, starships are essentially super powered projectiles, it just has wide reaching consequences for the universe now.

It COULD have wide reaching consequences.  More likely is we never see anything else like it ever again.k

1 hour ago, Forresto said:

Why is everyone bothered by space Leia she has the force and created a bubble around herself. Kanan did it on Rebels and Jedi did it on the Clone Wars. 

Probably because we've never seen leia use the force or any hint of her having had any training.  If luke did the same thing I doubt people would complain.

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