Defiant till the end

[MandalorianMoose 1,862]

I was wondering what the max activations I could get into a Defiance list would be, and clearly max flotillas is the way to do it. 7 activations and one mega-ship. With first player a last/first should be able to kill or cripple almost anything in the game. A few questions about the list though.

Does it need a bigger bid for first? Several things could be cut to get a better bid, such as a flotilla or downgrading Shara bey.

Lando or Intel Officer on the pickle? Lando keeps my one meaningful ship more safe, but Intel Officer makes it hit way way harder.

QBT or XI7? QBT gives long range rerolls and lets me add a black die from Defiance instead of a blue, but XI7 is more deadly vs larges and mc30’s

Defiance Breaker (390/400)

Rebels

Commander: Admiral Ackbar

Objectives: Advanced Gunnery, Sensor Net, Capture the VIP

 

[flagship] MC80 Assault Cruiser (114)

 - Admiral Ackbar (38)

 - Defiance (5)

 - Electronic Counter Measures (7)

 - Reinforced Blast Doors (5)

 - Leading Shots (4)

 - Lando Calrissian (4)

 - Engine Techs (8)

 - Quad Battery Turrets (5)

= 190 total points

 

GR-75 Medium Transports (18)

 - Quantum Storm (1)

 - Slicer Tools (7)

= 26 total points

 

GR-75 Medium Transports (18)

 - Comms Net (2)

= 20 total points

 

GR-75 Medium Transports (18)

 - Comms Net (2)

= 20 total points

 

GR-75 Medium Transports (18)

= 18 total points

 

GR-75 Medium Transports (18)

= 18 total points

 

GR-75 Medium Transports (18)

= 18 total points

 

Squadrons (80/134):

1x Shara Bey A-wing Squadron (17)

3x A-Wing Squadron (33)

2x VCX-100 Freighter (30)

Edited December 12, 2017 by MandalorianMoose

[Kristjan 218]

Why capture the VIP over fire lanes? Good Super Pickle list though, was really surprised no one brought this list to Michigan regionals.

[The Jabbawookie 5,613]

Nice! It reminds me of the Canadian nationals fleet (I think?) It looks like you’re safe for the bid, but you know your meta better. Kristjan is totally right on the Fire Lanes, but otherwise this is an intimidating fleet. Have you considered swapping one comms net for a jamming field? Vs the right fleets it can make VCXs a real pain to take down.

Edited December 12, 2017 by The Jabbawookie

[Dupy 139]

That is a healthy bid.   I've run into several of these fleets.   Some are bringing 3-4 vcx and counting on second player.   Avanced gunnery is the only viable option compared to sensor net and fire lanes as objectives.    It is a tough nut to crack. 

Looking at you @mhd   

Edited December 12, 2017 by Dupy

[MandalorianMoose 1,862]

Thanks for the tips guys! I didn’t go fire lanes because I’ve farmed it for so many points as first player with Double ISD lists, however with two strategic squads I think I could manage it, I’ll make the swap.

Also, digging the Jamming field idea to roll around with the VCX’s... 8 hull pancakes will last EVEN longer when they are constantly obstructed!

[MandalorianMoose 1,862]

Where do you guys stand on Lando vs Intel Officer?

[Thrindal 1,295]

Personally I'd go XI7 and Lando.  

[Dupy 139]

With this list,  intel.  You'll be last /firsting, or double tapping  with advanced gunnery.  Give some hard choices to the other guy. 

[MandalorianMoose 1,862]

2 minutes ago, Thrindal said:

Personally I'd go XI7 and Lando.  

 

1 minute ago, Dupy said:

With this list,  intel.  You'll be last /firsting, or double tapping  with advanced gunnery.  Give some hard choices to the other guy. 

Oooohhh FIGHT FIGHT FIGHT!

[Dupy 139]

Intel and xi7!

[MandalorianMoose 1,862]

1 minute ago, Dupy said:

Intel and xi7!

MAXIMUM PAIN!!!

[Thrindal 1,295]

2 minutes ago, MandalorianMoose said:

 

Oooohhh FIGHT FIGHT FIGHT!

Lol

 

1 minute ago, Dupy said:

Intel and xi7!

It is powerful I guess I was trying to preserve more of his bid.  It is a good way to make Braces go away.

[Kristjan 218]

8 minutes ago, Dupy said:

 

That is a healthy bid.   I've run into several of these fleets.   Some are bringing 3-4 vcx and counting on second player.   Avanced gunnery is the only viable option compared to sensor net and fire lanes as objectives.    It is a tough nut to crack. 

Looking at you @mhd   

Edited 5 minutes ago by Dupy

 

I had the best results against this list taking sensor net, even without any strategic. Unless you are running an ISD, advanced gunnery on a Super Pickle is suicide. I find the trick with sensor net is to not claim the tokens and try to kill or lock down the VCXs as fast as possible.

[MandalorianMoose 1,862]

Just now, Thrindal said:

Lol

 

It is powerful I guess I was trying to preserve more of his bid.  It is a good way to make Braces go away.

Ya, I think Intel/XI7 might be the way to go. It makes the pickle much more vulnerable, but with 7 activations I should be able to keep it safe anyway.... 

I can drop Shara to an A-wing or another strategic squad to maintain the bid

[Thrindal 1,295]

I find the biggest issue with lists like this is you are restricting yourself to one really big shot a turn (unless you slash which may not be prudent).  I guess you better make it count.

[Kristjan 218]

6 minutes ago, Thrindal said:

I find the biggest issue with lists like this is you are restricting yourself to one really big shot a turn (unless you slash which may not be prudent).  I guess you better make it count.

It's a really hard list to counter without strategic. Basically your opponent will have to kill the Super Pickle to win decisively. If your opponent avoids the Pickle and doesn't have strategic you can win big without firing a shot. It's a difficult list to approach and really hard if you never played against it before. All the floatillas can create a wall of flak that makes attacking it with heavy squadron builds tough as well.

[MandalorianMoose 1,862]

2 minutes ago, Kristjan said:

It's a really hard list to counter without strategic. Basically your opponent will have to kill the Super Pickle to win decisively. If your opponent avoids the Pickle and doesn't have strategic you can win big without firing a shot. It's a difficult list to approach and really hard if you never played against it before. All the floatillas can create a wall of flak that makes attacking it with heavy squadron builds tough as well.

This is pretty much what I was thinking. Yes it’s putting all of my firepower into one shot, but with last/first it’s essentially two shots with no opponent response... I just need to make SURE that pickle doesn’t go down

[Thrindal 1,295]

4 minutes ago, Kristjan said:

It's a really hard list to counter without strategic. Basically your opponent will have to kill the Super Pickle to win decisively. If your opponent avoids the Pickle and doesn't have strategic you can win big without firing a shot. It's a difficult list to approach and really hard if you never played against it before. All the floatillas can create a wall of flak that makes attacking it with heavy squadron builds tough as well.

All great points!  But it's $120 worth of GR75s, pre-tax.  That's probably my biggest concern running a copy of this list. ?

[Kristjan 218]

1 minute ago, MandalorianMoose said:

This is pretty much what I was thinking. Yes it’s putting all of my firepower into one shot, but with last/first it’s essentially two shots with no opponent response... I just need to make SURE that pickle doesn’t go down

It's totally capable of taking 1st player, but I think it's strength is as second player. First time I played against it, I was 1st player and down over 200 points on turn 3 with no engagement. 

[MandalorianMoose 1,862]

2 minutes ago, Kristjan said:

It's totally capable of taking 1st player, but I think it's strength is as second player. First time I played against it, I was 1st player and down over 200 points on turn 3 with no engagement. 

Wow. What objective were you playing?

On that note then, would you suggest building all the way to 400 then and just being happy with whatever I get? Lol

Edited December 12, 2017 by MandalorianMoose

[Dupy 139]

31 minutes ago, Kristjan said:

I had the best results against this list taking sensor net, even without any strategic. Unless you are running an ISD, advanced gunnery on a Super Pickle is suicide. I find the trick with sensor net is to not claim the tokens and try to kill or lock down the VCXs as fast as possible.

  Even a small 5 ship fleet could probably gain over a hundred points in sensor net points tokens before squads could lock down the strategic.  Of course,  that would leave them overextended from the fleet right in the middle of a bunch of AS flak.

  Perhaps fire lanes might be preferred?  Have the enemy strategic squads over extend themselves to move the tokens,  then pounce?  Worked once for me.   

 

Edited December 12, 2017 by Dupy

[Thrindal 1,295]

3 minutes ago, MandalorianMoose said:

Wow. What objective were you playing?

On that note then, would you suggest building all the way to 400 then and just being happy with whatever I get? Lol

Had to be Sensor Net I think.

[Kristjan 218]

If you have some strategic I think taking fire lanes is an option as the Pickle's opponent. Without strategic it's really bad as the Pickle player can move the fire lanes tokens under your ships or squads to get the points without any arcs on them.

[The Jabbawookie 5,613]

1 hour ago, MandalorianMoose said:

Where do you guys stand on Lando vs Intel Officer?

I’d say Lando. If the pickle somehow dies, you probably lose. Lando will help mitigate Demo triple taps, BTAvenger, and other enemy Intel Officers. Intel Officer is nice, but it does basically nothing for you vs MSU, bombers, and MC30s (who have two redirects and only one attack to worry about.) Another nice option is Walex. Combined with ECM, you can basically just brace when you feel like it on turns 3-4, when the hits are usually hardest.

[MandalorianMoose 1,862]

4 minutes ago, The Jabbawookie said:

I’d say Lando. If the pickle somehow dies, you probably lose. Lando will help mitigate Demo triple taps, BTAvenger, and other enemy Intel Officers. Intel Officer is nice, but it does basically nothing for you vs MSU, bombers, and MC30s (who have two redirects and only one attack to worry about.) Another nice option is Walex. Combined with ECM, you can basically just brace when you feel like it on turns 3-4, when the hits are usually hardest.

I never really got that into Walex... for me it’s always between Intel Officer for offense, or Lando/DCO to protect against black dice ships... 

I think 7 activations should be enough to protect it though, I doubt anything would be able to get into attack range without giving me a viscous counterattack. 

Intel Officer doesn’t help vs mc30s (but xi7 does!), what IO does help with though is against enemy large ships and flotillas when I don’t get an accuracy. And I feel I could run into trouble vs. a double large list since I am so invested in only one source of firepower. IO makes that one shot all the more nasty.