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Ajones47

So who’s getting the nerf: Rey, or Poe?

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They’ve swept the regionals scene with the same force that Kylo2/FN swept nationals, so which of the two is getting their force balanced? Or does it not need adjusting, and is this winning streak just a honeymoon period before the meta adapts?

Having not versed or played them, I’m curious to hear people’s thoughts.

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Poe is probably 1-2 points undercosted. The fact that his special can change an opponents die like aayla will be super annoying going forward

If he got a 1 point increase, Leia needs to be decreased by 1 because she cannot keep up with these other 16 point elites

Edited by JonasBenz

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Poe is by far the superior character

But I really don't want his cost to be nerfed. Ezra/trooper/Poe is my favorite deck because poe's consistency makes the game so much more fun over being left to the mercy of the pitiless dice gods. I guess you could make his special only affect your dice?

Personally, I'd sooner nerf the upgrades in the deck that see ubiquitous use across the board

Ancient lightsaber having a +3 modifier is perhaps one of the dumbest things left in the game

Edited by ficklegreendice

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2 hours ago, KalEl814 said:

This seems REALLY unlikely, that's a huge change to a core concept.

You mean like replacing multiple upgrades in a turn being limited to once per turn? The deck isn’t over powered, special chaining is. 

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28 minutes ago, KalEl814 said:

Yes, the two are not all that similar.

How are they not that similar? They limited one broken game mechanic they could limit another. 

Edited by Rafug9

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10 hours ago, Ajones47 said:

They’ve swept the regionals scene with the same force that Kylo2/FN swept nationals, so which of the two is getting their force balanced?

No, they didn’t.  R2P2 won a few regionals, but unlike FN-2199 it didn’t represent the vast majority of the top cuts.  Just because a deck wins a few tournaments doesn’t automatically mean that deck needs a nerf.

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8 minutes ago, GooeyChewie said:

No, they didn’t.  R2P2 won a few regionals, but unlike FN-2199 it didn’t represent the vast majority of the top cuts.  Just because a deck wins a few tournaments doesn’t automatically mean that deck needs a nerf.

 

While I do agree it’s too early to be calling for nerfs, the deck has been showing a majority presence in top cuts.  Usually at a rate of about 40% from what I’ve seen.

And of course that doesn’t yet even mean all that much as far as being a true problem either.

Worth keeping an eye on? Sure.  Not really the sky is falling FN-2199 levels of busted though.  The deck is strong, but also operates on an incredibly ‘fair’ axis.  

Like JGG said, at the very most I would say a 1 pt bump to Poe2 would be all that’s needed if anything is needed at all.

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I think Legacies needs to come out before any adjustments are made. Those two characters won't be getting adjusted during the movie's first run schedule. I am also not sure they are too good. I think they are just the most consistent deck. In tournaments consistency matters - a lot.

I think Poe will be problematic going forward though increasing his cost gets him paired with Aalya instead of Rey.

BTW, FFG has ZERO ISSUES with changing the rules of this game. They have added to and modified this game quite a bit in the past year. If the special chain becomes a huge problem, it will get changed. We all see it coming, but it has to happen first before anything is done about it.

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2 hours ago, Ajones47 said:

Yes they did. It’s not even subjective: that deck has won the majority of all regional tournaments since the nerf.

FN-2199 warped the game to the point that the majority of the top cuts were made up primarily of FN-2199 decks.  R2P2 has performed well enough to keep an eye on it, but not to the same level as FN-2199 did.
As for predicting errata, I think we're too close to the next set to make a change right now.  In a few weeks we might have a whole new decktype which leaves R2P2 in the dust.  Even if something in R2P2 gets hit, nothing guarantees that it'll be the characters.  Perhaps Force Illusion will be restricted to Blue character only (which honestly makes sense), which would make Poe easier to kill (and once he's down, the deck loses its special-chaining).

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R2P2 is a good, consistent deck with lots of shields and healing while doing fair amount of damage. It has 0 action cheating and is beatable. Nothing to nerf here, move along.

"Special chaining" is not a problem. It's present since the beginning of the game. Literally every deck can do it with Datapad but many people forgot about that card.

Force Illusion became very good now and as a blue ability should be for blue characters only. I wish designers pay more attention to the climate and "StarWars logic" in the game.

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3 hours ago, GooeyChewie said:

As for predicting errata, I think we're too close to the next set to make a change right now.  In a few weeks we might have a whole new decktype which leaves R2P2 in the dust.  Even if something in R2P2 gets hit, nothing guarantees that it'll be the characters.  Perhaps Force Illusion will be restricted to Blue character only (which honestly makes sense), which would make Poe easier to kill (and once he's down, the deck loses its special-chaining).

I honestly was super shocked when I started playing FI that it wasn't blue only, considering all the other "Force" cards were. I think "Blue Only" is the best nerf for it because mono decks also are still gonna need it to deal with all the mono hate Kylo seems to be throwing around, and a similar nerf worked for fast hands in the past.

Also would be supe upset if they changed the chaining die rules, because that would affect things like holocrons and focuses in a big, big way.

Edited by Atomisk

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7 hours ago, GooeyChewie said:

FN-2199 warped the game to the point that the majority of the top cuts were made up primarily of FN-2199 decks.  R2P2 has performed well enough to keep an eye on it, but not to the same level as FN-2199 did.
As for predicting errata, I think we're too close to the next set to make a change right now.  In a few weeks we might have a whole new decktype which leaves R2P2 in the dust.  Even if something in R2P2 gets hit, nothing guarantees that it'll be the characters.  Perhaps Force Illusion will be restricted to Blue character only (which honestly makes sense), which would make Poe easier to kill (and once he's down, the deck loses its special-chaining).

This is a change I've wanted since that card came out. Good call. 

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4 hours ago, Atomisk said:

I honestly was super shocked when I started playing FI that it wasn't blue only, considering all the other "Force" cards were. I think "Blue Only" is the best nerf for it because mono decks also are still gonna need it to deal with all the mono hate Kylo seems to be throwing around, and a similar nerf worked for fast hands in the past.

Also would be supe upset if they changed the chaining die rules, because that would affect things like holocrons and focuses in a big, big way.

Don't get me started on the missed theme of Force Illusion. It can't go on Chirrut who LITERALLY WALKED THROUGH A BARRAGE OF BULLETS UNHARMED. Rant over. Needs to be blue character only. Wouldn't mind a change on Chirrut to exclude his restriction as well. 

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11 hours ago, Ajones47 said:

Yes they did. It’s not even subjective: that deck has won the majority of all regional tournaments since the nerf.

You mean those few US regionals? Thats not enough to judge. PoeMaz has swept even more when SoR released and was not nerfed since recently. FN swept multiple NATIONALS around the world with cuts being like 6FN+2 somethings. Thats totally different magnitude. And surely there is nothing to fret about when Legacies release this Friday. This torrent of indirects, Yoda special chainings, and all that new sheanigans will verify the strenght of  the deck. Its strong, very strong true but its beatable - Palps mitigation can deal with it rather consistently, good Rieekan mill can shred it.

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12 hours ago, Ajones47 said:

Yes they did. It’s not even subjective: that deck has won the majority of all regional tournaments since the nerf.

He clearly clarified his position with the rest of his post that you opted to cut out. Why not address his point about R2P2 not being highly represented in the Top 8 from this past week?

It won both Alabama and CA, but only one player made it to the Top 8 in both those events.

 

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18 hours ago, RJM said:

 

While I do agree it’s too early to be calling for nerfs, the deck has been showing a majority presence in top cuts.  Usually at a rate of about 40% from what I’ve seen.

And of course that doesn’t yet even mean all that much as far as being a true problem either.

Worth keeping an eye on? Sure.  Not really the sky is falling FN-2199 levels of busted though.  The deck is strong, but also operates on an incredibly ‘fair’ axis.  

Like JGG said, at the very most I would say a 1 pt bump to Poe2 would be all that’s needed if anything is needed at all.

Where are you sourcing the 40% from?

With this past weekends events R2P2 has made up 18.8% of the Top 8s. QuiGon/Kanan is almost a full 10% higher at 28.1% and Kylo2/Vader is at 12.5 as the next highest after those two.

Do people really want to go with Poe as the problem here? Shouldn't the blue-ness of like 67% of the Top 8 be a bit more eyebrow raising?

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7 hours ago, Atomisk said:

I honestly was super shocked when I started playing FI that it wasn't blue only, considering all the other "Force" cards were. I think "Blue Only" is the best nerf for it because mono decks also are still gonna need it to deal with all the mono hate Kylo seems to be throwing around, and a similar nerf worked for fast hands in the past.

Also would be supe upset if they changed the chaining die rules, because that would affect things like holocrons and focuses in a big, big way.

If FI is a problem, Blue Only does nothing to address it. You'd just be increasing the QuiGon/Kanan+Kylo2/Vader share of the pie, and QuiGon/Kanan doesnt need the help since its making Top 8s at the highest rate.

 

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