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Archlyte

Typical End of Campaign XP Total?

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I was just curious to see what your end of campaign XP totals were for characters. Does anyone feel they went beyond the XP they wanted to as far as the power level? What is the sweet spot?

So yeah if you wouldn't mind could you give me you highest XP for end of game, ballpark average, and what you feel is the best range if any?

Thank you very much for any help. 

baze.jpg

Edited by Archlyte

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I had a lot of groups fall through. One group was murderhobos and we finished out their 2 year campaign at just around 1000 earned XP. There were some XP dumps for timeskips and such. It kind of felt like too much but since that group was entirely focused on killing everything I created, they made sure with both equipment and XP that they could do so fairly easily (the final boss man was a rough go, I gave him some hilariously strong talents and high defensive capabilities).

 

That said, failures can still happen at that high of XP. You'd at most have 3 specialization trees maxed out with only 100 XP in skill ranks or Force Powers, so it's definitely not unmanageable, just a bit unwieldly.

 

I currently have a group still actively playing at just around 400 earned XP and there's definitely still room to grow with them (not murderhobos, actually there for the story).

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Yeah, I just started playing a year ago and haven't really had a campaign 'end' yet.

One campaign is currently hovering at 300 exp per character and there is TONES of room for growth.

The other campaign has the players starting at 400+ exp and that actually feels like  a more comfortable starting point.  Check back with me in a couple of years and I may have a better answer.

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Lets see, right now we're somewhere in the neighborhood of 975 and we're nowhere near done. The last game we finished up with something about 875-900 or thereabouts. Before that, we topped out at about 500, but the campaign was cut short by external forces and not because it hit the end of its natural life span.

So yeah, we usually we run out of character story arc before we wind up places to put points.

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Well, my players went from freelancers to owning a space station (counting as a homestead) and two businesses, so I’m consider8ng it the start of a new campaign at that point. My highest level PC is at like 400 XP.

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Seems like we tend to peter out around 500-600xp, we've done this several times now.  We never finish the campaign, we generally end up putting them on hiatus to play something else for a while.  The intention is to come back to them, but we usually end up trying something new instead - there are far more games than we have time to play!

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In this system and setting, it seems hard for me to come up with characters who would stop before having ridiculous amounts of xp. My ace is now at 900xp, playing him since 2015, and he finally starts to feel like the character I wanted to build and play. So basically I feel like I am now done with his backstory and getting ready to actually START a campaign. 

There is just too much going on in the galaxy which involves most people in the galaxy on personal levels. Or in other words, while in other settings you often reach to point early when characters reach a point in which a character's goals and motivation stop driving them into adventure, in this galaxy adventure is stalking you. Even old alliance generals will get stalked by it and fight for the resistance 30 years past their prime and only death seems to be an escape.

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And maybe not even that.
 

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My last full campaign was short by some standard. We played for about 14 sessions across a year and a half (schedules are difficult for us to line up). I think we ended some where around 400 earned XP.

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Only tun one campaign and it’s still running, the players have logged somewhere around 72 hours of game play and are sitting at 325 xp, even though only about two weeks have passed in game. 

Ive tried to slow things down a bit and after a long break the players have even agreed to a reduction in xp to help them get reacquainted with their characters, but even at this level I don’t see there being any looming end on the horizon, they are all really good at diversifying and picking up new specialization so that they always have room to grow, and I can see them getting well over 1000 before things start to get difficukt to develope more, I just don’t want them to get there before too much time passes in game inshallah. 

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I've finished two campaigns, and I believe both were in the 500-600 XP range. By that point both groups had absolutely excessive amounts of skill in most things, and were truly epic movie-level awesome. That said, both could have gone on for longer if the groups had interest and/or could have (the second ended because one of the players was moving halfway across the country). They'd only just started to unlock their career-level skills and/or gotten close to the bottom of a second specialization. I think beyond that level of XP it would just become a little cumbersome for players to remember all of their abilities and talents. It was already getting there at 500-600. To each their own.

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I believe my current FaD campaign is around 700 XP, as Force users they are quite OP with their Force powers and lightsabers. While the EotE and Aor have more room to expand it gets more and more difficult to challenge 4 full fledged Force users on a regular basis. I am concluding my campaign next month and will be starting AoR with another person GM'ing. It might just be me, but I feel that the Force Powers are very OP when you get through most of the tree and then it can be used on a whim once they are Force rating 3+.

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On ‎12‎/‎12‎/‎2017 at 7:12 AM, Ender07 said:

I believe my current FaD campaign is around 700 XP, as Force users they are quite OP with their Force powers and lightsabers. While the EotE and Aor have more room to expand it gets more and more difficult to challenge 4 full fledged Force users on a regular basis. I am concluding my campaign next month and will be starting AoR with another person GM'ing. It might just be me, but I feel that the Force Powers are very OP when you get through most of the tree and then it can be used on a whim once they are Force rating 3+.

Do you feel like Force users don't really come into their own until around 600 xp? 

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It's actually hard to imagine a 700 xp force user doing much better than a combat optimized 350 xp force user. In with that said, it's hard to imagine that the force users beat something like a gunner/sharpshooter or heavy/modder in efficiency either. True Aim and/or jury rigged reapers are sources of a lot of pain. Now force users seem to have an easier time being jack of all trades as the force dice can offer a lot of flexibility. 

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1 hour ago, SEApocalypse said:

It's actually hard to imagine a 700 xp force user doing much better than a combat optimized 350 xp force user. In with that said, it's hard to imagine that the force users beat something like a gunner/sharpshooter or heavy/modder in efficiency either. True Aim and/or jury rigged reapers are sources of a lot of pain. Now force users seem to have an easier time being jack of all trades as the force dice can offer a lot of flexibility. 

Agreed... The real strength of Force users comes when you have FR 4 with Enhance and Influence maxed out, and you're throwing 6+ dice on every physical or social skill roll even if you've got 2s in all characteristics.

I do think that a combat optimized 700 point Jedi will still wipe the floor with a 350 pointer. There's a big difference between FR 2 and 3 especially if you're fighting with Niman or Ataru styles. Plus the amount of Parry ranks you can jam in there at that XP level could get insane.

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I’ve never encountered force rating 3 since I’ve mostly played with characters who started out something else then picked up force sensitive, but the comments here is making me think that making rating 3 hard to get by not starting out as a Jedi is the way to keep things going

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On 12/7/2017 at 1:56 PM, Archlyte said:

I was just curious to see what your end of campaign XP totals were for characters. Does anyone feel they went beyond the XP they wanted to as far as the power level? What is the sweet spot?

So yeah if you wouldn't mind could you give me you highest XP for end of game, ballpark average, and what you feel is the best range if any?

Thank you very much for any help. 

baze.jpg

I've run one campaign that lasted over 3 years of real time, we started playing once every two weeks with the beginner's box before the campaign for which we made our own characters.  We ended up averaging once every 3 months.  We had 16 or so sessions in the campaign (I lost count) and ended up with 550-600 earned xp kcounting the 150 knight level xp).  The game ended prematurely due to the birth of my son and me turning over gming duties to a player and him starting his own kotor era campaign (which I'm enjoying playing in).  Of course my game got shelved to be continued a few years down the road.  But I had no problem with the "intermission" xp levels.  I'm probably going to skip ahead a few years with a massive xp dump if/when we resume my campaign, so that Thad Bane has sufficient xp for a show down with his infamous uncle Cad.

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I personally do not run or play in games that begin with less than 250xp. With just base starting characters, the game is far too simple (and piloting characters too basic) for my group to have any interest. My players (and myself) are very mechanical and like running more complex sheets, though not necessarily broken ones.

As for the other end, I think games and characters have pretty much hit their limit and should be wrapped up by the 1250-1500xp mark. At that point you're going to have 5 or more specializations finished up, Force users will be reaching Clone Wars/Old Republic levels of Jedi shenanigans, and the challenges you'll need to build are going to have to be pretty over the top to actually threaten the characters, short of hamstringing them with GM fiat. At this point they're the pinnacles of their concepts: Jedi Masters, crime lords, sectorial governors, fleet admirals, etc, and should probably be retired to NPC status. This is like the equivalent of reaching epic levels in d20.

I'd say the real sweet spot in this game (the equivalent to levels ~7-13 in d20 systems) is around 750xp on the high end.

edit: As to the Force users question, yes. Force users need alot of XP to truly feel like they look in the movies, especially the prequels. Force Rating 3+ is pretty much mandatory to be able to regularly and competently use the Force in more than a supplementary fashion (without taking Conflict and burning DPs), and Jedi Knights displayed such a wide array of expertise that you need alot of XP to represent that.

To put numbers on it, I think Padawans have about 300xp, Knights around 600xp, and Jedi Masters 1000 or more. You can cheat those numbers down a bit by cutting corners and hand waving much of what we see the Jedi do, but I think that's just being dishonest to what they are. These are warrior monks that have been intensely training (accruing xp) since they were little more than toddlers. They're not really inherently better than mundanes, they just have a massive headstart. Note that this is in regards to representing traditional Jedi. You can easily play a RotJ Luke with <400xp, and he was considered a Knight. When your entire Order is burned to the foundation, the promotion criteria lessens a bit, yeah?

It's hard to compare them directly to the mundanes as far as "who is better", though. At that level, if they're built purely to murder things, a Force user will be just as competent as a Bounty Hunter. It doesn't matter who can one-shot things "harder". Personally I house-rule that Force-sensitives start out at FR2 because of how much traction they need to get before really getting going, but I know many would strongly disagree so ymmv.

Edited by Smog

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7 hours ago, DaverWattra said:

I do think that a combat optimized 700 point Jedi will still wipe the floor with a 350 pointer.

True when comparing force users in general with each other, still good move roll should still deal enough damage to deal with a 750xp char, because move does insane amounts of wounds. And move can not be parrier nor reflected (imho a mistake in the rules). 

Meanwhile a 350 point char with a 1 advantage per hit automatic gun will most likely take down a 700 point jedi in one action. Crit-builds (disrupters are nasty) and vehicle specs will do similar things. Not 100% sure on sharp shooter/gunner snipers, but iirc they deal about 40 damage in a single shot half the time (with a non-vehicle gunnery-sniper rifle), at least if I remember the last discussion about true aim right than they might wipe out even a 700 point jedi in one shot.

Edited by SEApocalypse

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On 12/15/2017 at 7:40 PM, SEApocalypse said:

True when comparing force users in general with each other, still good move roll should still deal enough damage to deal with a 750xp char, because move does insane amounts of wounds. And move can not be parrier nor reflected (imho a mistake in the rules). 

Meanwhile a 350 point char with a 1 advantage per hit automatic gun will most likely take down a 700 point jedi in one action. Crit-builds (disrupters are nasty) and vehicle specs will do similar things. Not 100% sure on sharp shooter/gunner snipers, but iirc they deal about 40 damage in a single shot half the time (with a non-vehicle gunnery-sniper rifle), at least if I remember the last discussion about true aim right than they might wipe out even a 700 point jedi in one shot.

I've got a consular:niman-disciple/martial artist with the full set of sense defense upgrade 2 ranks of defensive training (for melee) and reinforced clothing with soak 3 (superior and the upgrade) with the melee (not useful) and ranged defense upgrades, 5 ranks of party, and 3 ranks of reflect, and coordination dodge with 3 ranks of the coordination skill.  I rarely get hit and even less rarely take damage, given the difficulty that a sniper would be facing (3 for long range I think), 2 of the dice being red and at least 1 black, if I had 5 ranks in coordination i'd be almost unhittable.  Flipping a destiny point to add 5 failures to a roll before the gm has adjudicated the result of a roll will make almost any roll miss especially if it went up again 2 red 1 purple, and at least 1 black.  High damage on a successful attack doesn't mean anything if they can't land a hit on you.  But as  a general statement I agree with what you said.

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2 hours ago, EliasWindrider said:

But as  a general statement I agree with what you said.

The big deal with true Aims is that nearly half the damage comes from rolling successes. Even adding 5 failures would in those cases not enough to reduce the chances of getting hit by more than 25% and chance for success is above 99% to start. :)
But I as well agree in general that a build as yours will be very robust and has very strong avoidance. 

Here an example of a 350xp sniper/gunner shooting from long range against adversary 2 and a defense value of 3. 
http://game2.ca/eote/?montecarlo=100000#proficiency=8&boost=5&challenge=2&setback=2

As you can see even coordination dodge with 5 ranks will only reduce the chance to hit so something above 50%. And the sniper can re-roll his ranged checks on top. 

 

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3 hours ago, SEApocalypse said:

The big deal with true Aims is that nearly half the damage comes from rolling successes. Even adding 5 failures would in those cases not enough to reduce the chances of getting hit by more than 25% and chance for success is above 99% to start. :)
But I as well agree in general that a build as yours will be very robust and has very strong avoidance. 

Here an example of a 350xp sniper/gunner shooting from long range against adversary 2 and a defense value of 3. 
http://game2.ca/eote/?montecarlo=100000#proficiency=8&boost=5&challenge=2&setback=2

As you can see even coordination dodge with 5 ranks will only reduce the chance to hit so something above 50%. And the sniper can re-roll his ranged checks on top. 

 

But I believe the add 5 failures would also apply to the second roll as well without a second destiny point flip

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2 hours ago, EliasWindrider said:

But I believe the add 5 failures would also apply to the second roll as well without a second destiny point flip

Probably, as long as the reroll counts as the same attack and not a separate attack. Not actually sure how that is interpreterad in this system.

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6 hours ago, EliasWindrider said:

But I believe the add 5 failures would also apply to the second roll as well without a second destiny point flip

Yes, natural marksman / natural pilot let you reroll your dice, but is still the same check. In the example case it still increases your chance to hit about as much as coordination dodge reduces them, simply by allowing to roll again in case you would have failed the first time. 

Edited by SEApocalypse

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