Haughty Magistrate

[j_gunder 17]

As a Crab player, this card is pretty broken.  Not "sky is falling" broken, but extremely difficult--if not impossible, for Crab--to play around.  It might as well have the ability "break target province".  The only way I can think of to deal with it are removal effects, of which very few are actually targeted removal effects, which makes it very frustrating to play against.

There are many good cards in this game with very powerful abilities--we have Steadfast Witch Hunter and Hida Kisada, for example--but even at their worst they can be anticipated, played around.  When this card shows up, especially with fate on it, be ready for a rough ride, because there's not really much you can do to prevent it leading a host of Phoenix characters into your provinces.

Anyone else play against it, and have constructive advice on dealing with it?

 

[Schmoozies 1,374]

10 minutes ago, j_gunder said:

As a Crab player, this card is pretty broken.  Not "sky is falling" broken, but extremely difficult--if not impossible, for Crab--to play around.  It might as well have the ability "break target province".  The only way I can think of to deal with it are removal effects, of which very few are actually targeted removal effects, which makes it very frustrating to play against.

There are many good cards in this game with very powerful abilities--we have Steadfast Witch Hunter and Hida Kisada, for example--but even at their worst they can be anticipated, played around.  When this card shows up, especially with fate on it, be ready for a rough ride, because there's not really much you can do to prevent it leading a host of Phoenix characters into your provinces.

Anyone else play against it, and have constructive advice on dealing with it?

 

Take the licking on that province and swing for something else ASAP.  Splash Lion and field Rout so you can get it out of the fight and get your board state back.

[BordOne 258]

Bow effects, send home effects and dishonor should work pretty well. Remember that when he is buffed by the stronghold he also disables a lot of phoenix characters, often you will just need to deal with him alone. 

So things like Rout, Mirumotos fury, For Shame if you can find enough courtiers, Court Games should be your friend.

Other than that you can just try to out tempo them sincein early game Phoenixes board is relatively poor - break some provinces yourself and try to save the other one.

[Hordeoverseer 157]

Rout might be one, though hard if they slap on a katana. Maybe Court Games, but that's only if they go political and it's only the magistrate. If only they made more Kuni...

Disables most, but not all. Isawa Kaede will be unaffected, As will Tsukune.

Edited December 5, 2017 by Hordeoverseer

[ElSuave 273]

15 minutes ago, j_gunder said:

leading a host of Phoenix characters into your provinces.

I think Haughty Magistrate does enough damage on his own. With Imperial Favor and a Fine Katana he is already swinging 5 damage solo. Assuming he is getting +2 glory from the stronghold- Then the only other Phoenix characters that could swing alongside Haughty Magistrate are:

-Shiba Tsukune
-Isawa Kaede
-Serene Warrior
-Fearsome Mystic (If it's an air conflict).

[j_gunder 17]

Rout is a good solution, but not one I'm thrilled about running.  Forgot about that card!  Mirumoto's Fury doesn't help, since it only bows--same with Court Games/For Shame, and if Crab is running For Shame, something is already wrong.

Going aggressive is the strategy I took, but when facing down a Haughty Magistrate with 3 fate on it, I couldn't keep pace.  It walked right into my stronghold with a bunch of friends and wrecked me.

I'm sure there will be more "target character gains X" glory kind of cards, but that's also a poor solution for a deck like Crab to run. 

[Hordeoverseer 157]

Problem is, if there's ever such a card, Phoenix will be running it for sure for Min-Max glory hog.

[twinstarbmc 719]

19 minutes ago, j_gunder said:

Rout is a good solution, but not one I'm thrilled about running.  Forgot about that card! 

A: "I have a problem!"
B: "Here's a solution."
A: "I'm not doing that!"

...

Ok then, enjoy Haughty Magistrates strolling through the Ancestral Halls of the Crab.

[Schmoozies 1,374]

13 minutes ago, j_gunder said:

Rout is a good solution, but not one I'm thrilled about running.  Forgot about that card!  Mirumoto's Fury doesn't help, since it only bows--same with Court Games/For Shame, and if Crab is running For Shame, something is already wrong.

Going aggressive is the strategy I took, but when facing down a Haughty Magistrate with 3 fate on it, I couldn't keep pace.  It walked right into my stronghold with a bunch of friends and wrecked me.

I'm sure there will be more "target character gains X" glory kind of cards, but that's also a poor solution for a deck like Crab to run. 

Bows do and don't help as was pointed out earlier if the Magistrate is attacking with the Stronghold boost to kill all your options to defend than they are also negating a lot of the phoenix characters so is unlikely to have brought support characters.  If bowed you've effectively killed the force attacking your province and saved it. 

Now you can be punished if they they did have one of the high glory bodies (needs to be 3+ and they are all expensive) to go with them, but that is where you may look at just get out of the way and save your resources for your swing back.  With the innate high Military of Crab (+ the bonus when you use your stronghold) rout is a strong inclusion for Crab to begin with in my opinion, and may need to be looked again as a necessary defense against the onslaught of Magistrates that are going to be coming out soon.  The Lion one will actually be the bigger issue as they have far more methods to self honor and that means he can bring far more friends so your only option will be send home.
 

[BordOne 258]

52 minutes ago, Hordeoverseer said:

Rout might be one, though hard if they slap on a katana. Maybe Court Games, but that's only if they go political and it's only the magistrate. If only they made more Kuni...

Disables most, but not all. Isawa Kaede will be unaffected, As will Tsukune.

If they swing with magistrate and a 5 drop you essentialy have a free reign as they don't have anything else(barely anything) on the board.

Most of the time it will be only magistrate.

Agreed magistrate will probably swing military so court games do not help that much.

As it has been pointed out Rout is probably the most straightforward answer.

46 minutes ago, j_gunder said:

Rout is a good solution, but not one I'm thrilled about running.  Forgot about that card!  Mirumoto's Fury doesn't help, since it only bows--same with Court Games/For Shame, and if Crab is running For Shame, something is already wrong.

Going aggressive is the strategy I took, but when facing down a Haughty Magistrate with 3 fate on it, I couldn't keep pace.  It walked right into my stronghold with a bunch of friends and wrecked me.

Mirumotos Fury is not that good in the lategame agreed, however it sounds like there was more things going on in that game other than Magistrate - for example losing on tempo to phoenix that have spent 6 fate on 1 three drop.

Natural combo of Assasination + Way of the Crab should also help against small boards that phoenix presents.

Edited December 5, 2017 by BordOne

[HirumaShigure 636]

To put things in perspective on my first night using Stoic Magistrate I shut my unicorn opponent down by giving them (x2) Reprieves and Ornate Fans. So I think the clans all will have a hard time dealing with magistrates from certain clans. I didn't even think Stoic was going to be good, but he shined that night. 

[Joe From Cincinnati 769]

My best advice would be run Shameful Display and hope he runs into it. If they take the fire ring, take the void ring and just scrub them off the board over time. If they take the void ring, take the fire ring to dishonor the magistrate, making her a 0/0 once glory pumped. Rout is an option, but running a bad card for exactly 1 card in the game is not typically a smart way to use your conflict deck slots.

 

I've only played a hand full of games against the magistrate, but I have opposed the magistrate before and Policy DEbated to remove the fan/katana from their hand that they were planning on using. It's not the most elegant strategy, but it'll have to do.

 

Alternatively, you can just dishonor pressure your opponent so that breaks don't matter as much.

 

I agree that it's generally a poorly designed card though. The Magistrates in general are kind of a black eye on the design of the game, as they were so intent on making the game interactive and then they printed 7 characters that explicitly do not interact with their opponents based on the cards you happen to have on the board.

 

But the Haughty Magistrate is the worst one by far. With the Stoic Magistrate and the Enigmatic Magistrate, your entire deck is not going to be the fate cost that those cards specify. With the Scorpion and the Lion one, you can add honored or remove dishonored during conflicts or via games. With the Crane and Unicorn ones, you can purchase your characters differently to have or not have fate in order to defend. 

 

The Haughty Magistrate is the only one that simply locks out an entire clan with absolutely no non-Cloud solution, which is a pretty bizarre design. She should have been 0 glory. That way Shuichi, Yojimbo and a few future 2 glory Crabs could have participated and the design space wouldn't have been an issue.

 

There's a reason the playtester lead (reportedly) was fired after the first cycle. There are a lot of cards designed in this game under the pretense that every deck is capable of running Cloud the Mind. The problem is some, namely Crab, are just not able to right now. But we'll get more Kuni soon and this problem will be (kind of) remedied...

 

Still a really dumb design though. 

Edited December 5, 2017 by Joe From Cincinnati

[j_gunder 17]

I sub Unicorn and run 3x Iuchi Wayfinder, so I feel like Cloud the Mind might be a better-rounded approach to dealing with Haughty Magistrate--and as a bonus, it deals with other characters that are problematic just as well.

Rout just isn't the right solution for me.  It doesn't prevent them from just swinging in with it again on a second conflict, and if the Magistrate is tooled up it might be difficult to Rout them.  I'm going to test 2x Cloud the Mind for a while, and see if I have problems getting it off.

I run an aggressive Crab build now (I feel that aggro as outpaced the dishonor strategy, at least for the time being) and actually bid >1 now, so seeing Iuchi Wayfinder should hopefully not be a problem.  

[Shu2jack 610]

Difficult card to be sure. To be fair, it isn't like the Phoenix have really been a top 4 deck in any major competition since Worlds. People complain about my Lion Pride Brawler and Spirit Caller, and Ikoma - I can give the Phoenix the magistrate.

In terms of solutions, I like to splash Crane. If the Magistrate becomes an issue I can run Disdainful remark. It won't solve her claiming the ring, but it can prevent a province break.

Simply bowing her will not let her contribute her skill to the conflict - remember that her ability effects Phoenix's own characters as well. I can see this being an issue of having to simply concede that Phoenix is going to commonly get the ring, but not the province with this character.

[Darksyde 128]

Doesn't this only effect 6 out of 19 characters though? That doesn't sound like instant doom for crab or is there some other step I'm missing.

[Schmoozies 1,374]

2 minutes ago, Darksyde said:

Doesn't this only effect 6 out of 19 characters though? That doesn't sound like instant doom for crab or is there some other step I'm missing.

If Phoenix use Stronghold than Crab have no one who contributes force against her as their highest in faction is a 2.

[ElSuave 273]

Just use Pit Trap ;D

[Caldera 74]

To be fair, the Dragon Magistrate also neutralises Shuichi and Yojimbo when it's attacking, and the Unicorn one also takes out the Witch Hunter too whilst she is at it (assuming you've fated up your 4-costers....which you should have...), and that's without having to use their precious Stronghold ability (which Phoenix also want to save for guaranteeing the Imperial Favour). 

I appreciate that in its non-buffed state it affects Crab more than other clans' characters, but personally I don't consider its design to be worse for the game than the other two Magistrates I've mentioned. 

Anyway: Take the (2 strength) knock on the chin and then hit them back with covert Shuichi and Skirmisher...

[Asako Shinpi 44]

2 hours ago, Caldera said:

 

Anyway: Take the (2 strength) knock on the chin and then hit them back with covert Shuichi and Skirmisher...

A smart Phoenix player honors the magistrate.  This makes it 5 mil/pol when bonused by the stronghold.  This makes it able to solo most provinces.

[Caldera 74]

8 hours ago, Asako Shinpi said:

A smart Phoenix player honors the magistrate.  This makes it 5 mil/pol when bonused by the stronghold.  This makes it able to solo most provinces.

True, although if they hit Pilgramage or one of the other 5-strength Provinces then a quick Rebuild into one of your strength-boosting Holdings can be enough to unexpectedly prevent the break. And even if they do break it, if they've bowed one of their Shugenja, spent a fate & a card, and diverted their Stronghold ability away from guaranteeing the Favour, then I can probably live with that so long as I can reliably  break a province in retaliation.

Don't get me wrong: I'm a predominantly Phoenix player (closely followed by Crab), and I think it's great that we've finally got a decent card that works on attack rather than the predictable defence, and isn't 'Phoenix-taxed'. 

 

 

 

[L5RBr 178]

Is not that "ok, gg, bye" kind of card but if we don't get any other send home or bow effects in these final packs it will be really annoying for crab players to deal with that, cause right now there's really few options to.. Bow is enought cause the really "broken" situation is attacking solo, too cheap too easy.

I think the argument that Phoenix attacking is weak and needed a card like this, referencing the tournaments results isn't solid, cause by far Phoenix is the clan that received more cards to run in the packs, and people playing already saw the Phoenix/Uni shugenja deck strenght without needing the magistrate.

I agree with Joe, the magistrates (ALL, not only Phoenix) are the antithesis of the funny and interactive game they've maded.

Edited December 6, 2017 by L5RBr

[BordOne 258]

5 hours ago, L5RBr said:

Is not that "ok, gg, bye" kind of card but if we don't get any other send home or bow effects in these final pablecks it will be really  annoying for crab players to deal with that, cause right now there's really few options to.. Bow is enought cause the really "broken" situation is attacking solo, too cheap too easy.

I think the argument that Phoenix attacking is weak and needed a card like this, referencing the tournaments results isn't solid, cause by far Phoenix is the clan that received more cards to run in the packs, and people playing already saw the Phoenix/Uni shugenja deck strenght without needing the magistrate.

I agree with Joe, the magistrates are the antithesis of the funny and interactive game they've maded.

Well the tournament results do not support your comment at least for now, phoenix is nearly nowhere to be seen while crab has no trouble winning major events.

Phoenix needs strong cads it seems.

Edited December 6, 2017 by BordOne

[L5RBr 178]

1 minute ago, BordOne said:

Well the tournament results do not support your comment at least for now, phoenix is nearly nowhere to be seen while crab has no trouble winning major events.

Phoenix needs strong cads it seema.

Yes cause in all major events we didn't see this deck. Prodigy of the Waves and Benten's Touch.. imo Prodigy is they best character so far, a better version of Niten Master and Wichthunter, due to her interaction with Phoenix deck. Not saying Phoenix didn't need good offensive cards, just they didn't needed Haughty Magistrate. 

[Ignithas 275]

15 minutes ago, BordOne said:

Well the tournament results do not support your comment at least for now, phoenix is nearly nowhere to be seen while crab has no trouble winning major events.

Phoenix needs strong cads it seema.

I don't think that People are complaining because Phoenix gets very powerfull cards like Censure or Prodigy of Waves, but cards that are extremly difficult to interact with. Phoenix got a pretty big boost with the third pack and the sixth pack also looks extremly promising for Phoenix.

6 minutes ago, L5RBr said:

Yes cause in all major events we didn't see this deck. Prodigy of the Waves and Benten's Touch.. imo Prodigy is they best character so far, a better version of Niten Master and Wichthunter, due to her interaction with Phoenix deck. Not saying Phoenix didn't need good offensive cards, just they didn't needed Haughty Magistrate. 

I personally would concur that Prodigy is stronger than Niten Master. Being able to stand twice and not being restricted to the water ring makes him especially stronger in the first turn.

[BordOne 258]

5 hours ago, L5RBr said:

Yes cause in all major events we didn't see this deck. Prodigy of the Waves and Benten's Touch.. imo Prodigy is they best character so far, a better version of Niten Master and Wichthunter, due to her interaction with Phoenix deck. Not saying Phoenix didn't need good offensive cards, just they didn't needed Haughty Magistrate. 

Benten's touch doesn't seem so strong at least in my play group. I think the cost is too high at least for now.

So this leaves Prodigy of the waves which I agree with you is strong, stronger than Witchhunter imo, weaker than Niten master though, thats for sure. So this gives them one strong card which is probably not enough to make them unbeatable.

I too dislike the design of Haughty Magistrate but only while he is facing crab. In the broader picture(against every other clan) I don't think he is broken/unfun.

5 hours ago, Ignithas said:

I don't think that People are complaining because Phoenix gets very powerfull cards like Censure or Prodigy of Waves, but cards that are extremly difficult to interact with. Phoenix got a pretty big boost with the third pack and the sixth pack also looks extremly promising for Phoenix.

Every other magistrate is similarly difficult to interact with so I don't see the point other than this one is particularly hard to counter for crab. There will be other magistrates that are hard to touch for them though, for example Implacable Magistrate, so no point in singling out the phoenix.

And it's good, they should get buffs considering their weak performance. Hopefully Unicorn will receive similar treatment soon.

Edited December 6, 2017 by BordOne