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Tim Kelly

Correct procedure for gaining a Level?

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What are the correct steps to level up?  It seems to me the LTP and RRG disagree on this point.

Imagine this situation…I have 2 “special” letters: S & L.  My XP marker is on L when I kill a Level 3 enemy.

The way I think it should work, and the way I think the LTP describes it, is:

1) I move the XP marker back to the far left hole on the XP track, accounting for one of the three new XP.

2) I draw two letters, and pick one.  Let’s say I pick P.  

3) I then advance my XP marker the two remaining XPs for the Level 3 Enemy I just killed, and the marker ends up on P.

 

However, the RRG describes it this way on page 14:

“When a survivor gains multiple XP, he or she moves the peg for all gained XP, and then performs the steps for each level gained during that process.” 

This makes it sound to me like the steps are:

1) Move the peg for all gained XPs.  In the above example, I would move the peg three spaces, to the leftmost hole, then to S, and then to L again.

2) Perform steps for each level. I’ve gained one level, so I draw two letters, pick one, and add it to the board.

 

I’m hoping a designer will chime in on this one.  I feel sure the first method is correct, but (according to my wife) I’ve been wrong before…

Played two solo games so far.  Really like the stories.

TK

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I would use the first way. Pause to complete the lvl up before applying remaining xp. Otherwise it would be possible to skip an xp step towards the next level which, in my opinion, would feel like cheating.

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I think the intention in the RRG is to make the leveling up process faster/less clunky. Count the XP up where you stand now, then add the tokens/perks for each of those steps. Otherwise you'd see your level process slow down. A response would be great, since it could go either way. I read it a couple times last night after reading this thread and I think it makes sense why the RRG has you blend the steps together, but could be wrong.

 

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I too would love to see an official response to this question. I feel like the rules that supersede what is found in the Learn to Play guide would make the game move faster.

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I believe you're right, JTShadow.  I like the LTP rule, because it makes it a bit slower to level up.  Either rule is really just fine, and I know everyone can play the way they prefer without harming the game one bit.  It's really annoying they could write such (seemingly) contradictory instructions.  Give us an answer, will ya?

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44 minutes ago, Tim Kelly said:

I believe you're right, JTShadow.  I like the LTP rule, because it makes it a bit slower to level up.  Either rule is really just fine, and I know everyone can play the way they prefer without harming the game one bit.  It's really annoying they could write such (seemingly) contradictory instructions.  Give us an answer, will ya?

You can always ask FFG - there's a link in the website for asking rules questions directly. They don't monitor the forum here for that.

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FFG Officials rarely, if ever, browse these forums and even more rarely respond to anything here. So if you want a response or answer from them, best bet is to send in a rules query using the form in the Customer Service section.
www.fantasyflightgames.com/en/contact/rules/

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I just sent the following in:

"There has surfaced a certain amount of confusion about the proper steps of leveling up. The Learn to Play and the Rules Reference state differing ways. Let's say you're effectivley lvl3 and have the I, A and L on your character sheet and the XP peg is on L. I then proceed to kill a lvl 3 enemy and thus gain 3 XP. Now comes the differing part.

Do I
a) apply 1 XP, pause to level up (Gaining, say, an S) and then apply the remaining 2 XP
OR
b) apply all 3 XP, ending on A, and then level up, again gaining an S?"

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Nice.  Thanks!  I've tried both methods, and both work fine.  I completely understand the whole "RR supersedes the LTP" idea.  I would say there is not so much confusion over the issue as annoyance.  It's frustrating they could write two examples for one idea which seem to contradict each other.   That so many folks can read these two examples, and end up with approximately a 50-50 split on the "intended" interpretation, points to the fact this section could have been proofread a bit more carefully.   Can't wait to hear the "real" answer!

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Seems like the rules word it pretty obvious that you move the peg for all xp gained, then continue with the process. 

When a survivor gains multiple XP, he or she moves the peg for all gained XP, and then performs the steps for each level gained during that process.

You don’t stop the peg till all XP is counted, then add the special tokens. 

‘Also, that’s how Fallout 4 works. You can gain 3 levels at once, then you go in to pick your perks. So the board game mirrors the video game. 

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on the other hand it gives an advantage to players who have the back part of special filled over the front part.  let's say you start the game with AL and gain 2xp so that your marker is on L. You kill a level 2 enemy. If you gain all of the xp first you end up on A. A second character starts with SP in the same situation will end on S.  The first character needs 2xp to level but the second would need 3xp. The first character essentially skips the token that they draw when leveling where the second doesn't.

 

that seems like it would be counter to Fallout 4.

Edited by jcmonson

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But in Fallout 4, Intelligence and Luck stats help you gain XP faster, so like the video game, having those first will help you level a bit faster as well. 

I makes the 5 characters play a tad different. Do you want the guy who may level a bit faster in the beginning, or go with the Strength or Perception guy who will be better with weapons, since weapons tend to scale more with Str and Perception it seems. 

Thats how I see it anyway. 

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when I have rules confusion, I always attempt to determine "the spirit" of the written rules.

 

 

inasmuch as this,

in any role playing game, every time you level up, you need more xp for the next level.

it would seem that the intent here is that when you gain a level, the xp required for the next level would increase.

 

example : in D&D5th edition, you need 300 xp to get to level 2, then you need to gain 600 more for level 3, then you need to gain 1800 more for level 4.

 

so, it seems logical that at the beginning of the game, when you only have 2 Special stats, you need 3 xp to gain a level, but then if you take another special stat, then you will need 4 xp for the next level, causing you to level up slower.

the only way to simulate this is to stop immediately when you level up, then pick your letters, THEN apply the rest of the xp.

That's how I have been playing it and it just feels right.

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I'm gonna reply again and admit that I'm actually wrong.

 

I was trying to interpret the spirit of the idea of how when you level up, because it should take longer to level up again, that you pause the xp gains in the middle.

 

 

however

 

there actually IS a specific spot in the rules book that actually specifies the exact procedure.

 

on page 14 of the blue covered "rules reference" book, under the header for "XP"

 

it says 

"when a survivor gains multiple XP, he or she moves the peg for ALL gained xp, THEN performs the steps for each level gained during the process"

 

so, I was wrong.

 

you allply all the xp first, and then apply the level ups, which could cause you to level up slightly faster.

 

which IMO is not really that game breaking, since you are limited on the xp you might gain each turn, it's not likely that you will level up more than once or twice, and you might skip maybe 1-2 holes maximum.

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I was writing a completely different reply, and then it hit me:  Is leveling up more than once EVER possible?

In the original poster's scenario, he's a young Survivor with SL, and has gained two exp so that his peg is on L.  That would be the EASIEST scenario from which to gain two levels, but that would still require you getting 4 exp at once (Peg to zero, S, L, and back to zero again).  I feel like I've maybe seen a couple cards that give that much exp, but it's pretty rare, and definitely not an early-game occurrence.

Even in the case of camping with two magazines, I would have always assumed that you would resolve each exp gain from each magazine separately.

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you could fight multiple enemies, I've seen 2 level 2 enemies appear on the same time several times, the worst I've seen is 2level 2 and 2 level 3 in the same space. To be honest though those usually occur late game, so the likelihood of someone hitting that when being low level is unlikely.

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On 1/21/2018 at 6:16 PM, jcmonson said:

you could fight multiple enemies, I've seen 2 level 2 enemies appear on the same time several times, the worst I've seen is 2level 2 and 2 level 3 in the same space. To be honest though those usually occur late game, so the likelihood of someone hitting that when being low level is unlikely.

Aye, multiple enemies on multiple spaces, but if you initiate, that's two separate actions to fight both of them, and if it's Enemy-Turn, they're still fighting you at separate times with separate die rolls.  I'd say in all cases of multiple opponents in a single turn, you'd gain each clump of exp at the end of each fight.

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