[B/SF-17 Bomber] Crimson Specialist - "after revealing your maneuver dial" question

[WanouMars 269]

Hi all,

The pilot ability reads:

"When placing a bomb token you dropped after revealing your maneuver dial, you may place the bomb token anywhere on the play area touching your ship."

Since no bombs can be dropped before revealing your maneuver dial, I understand this applies to all bombs, including those that require an action to be dropped.

Did I miss anything?

Wanou

[thespaceinvader 17,568]

No.

'After revealing your manoeuvre dial' is a trigger on some bombs (those without the Action: header).  That is what the ability refers to.

[WanouMars 269]

Your quote is wrong 

This is what the non-action bomb cards say "When you reveal your maneuver, you may drop 1 Bomblet token.".

"When" and "After" have very different meaning.

"When" refers to "at the same time", while "After" refers to any time after the first action is completed. In fact, it could be any later time during a whole game if they don't add the "during this round".

[thespaceinvader 17,568]

Ugggghhhh you're right.  FFG screwed up.

I'm sure it's supposed to read 'When placing a bomb token you dropped hen you revealed your maneuver dial' but it doesn't.

Needs errata to work at all.

[Jimbawa 122]

First off, don't be that guy. It's pretty clear what it's intended to do. Second, it works fine as written. You must reveal your maneuver to do anything that also happens "when you reveal a maneuver", and the bomb is dropped after it is revealed. Not before it is revealed, as flipping your dial is its trigger. So "when placing a bomb after you reveal your dial" is completely valid here. If you really need precedence on why you that interpretation is correct, look at every instance of "after" in x wing. Every single instance without exception has you do some effect immediately following whatever the trigger is. That is pretty hard proof that his ability only works with bombs placed following your dial reveal. 

[WanouMars 269]

18 minutes ago, Jimbawa said:

First off, don't be that guy. It's pretty clear what it's intended to do. Second, it works fine as written. You must reveal your maneuver to do anything that also happens "when you reveal a maneuver", and the bomb is dropped after it is revealed. Not before it is revealed, as flipping your dial is its trigger. So "when placing a bomb after you reveal your dial" is completely valid here. If you really need precedence on why you that interpretation is correct, look at every instance of "after" in x wing. Every single instance without exception has you do some effect immediately following whatever the trigger is. That is pretty hard proof that his ability only works with bombs placed following your dial reveal. 

I agree with your understanding (I had a look at Jake Farell ability). 

I still think FFG should make a difference between "after" and "immediately after"

See ya!

[ObiWonka 7,081]

"Immediately" is a bad word and FFG has wisely decided to stop using it.

[Squirl808 6]

It probably would have been best if they used the same restrictive text as Trajectory Simulator. 

You can not drop bombs with the "Action:" header this way.

But they probably didn't want two cards in the same pack to have such similar verbage.

[sharrrp 444]

"After" ALWAYS means the same thing as "Immediately After" in X-Wing. It specifies a specific window.

If I revealed a maneuver three rounds ago and I'm dropping a bomb now it is "after revealing a maneuver" by the common definition of "After" but OBVIOUSLY that doesn't mean I can do it any time I feel like for the rest of the game.  After completing a maneuver and triggering an action bomb is a less exagerrated example but still clearly not within the ability for the same reason.

Don't rules lawyer for rules lawyering sake. It's obnoxious and unhelpful.  There are plenty of legit unclear interactions that come up, this is not one of them. Even if their language wasn't 100% perfect how the ability works (in terms of timing at least) is 100% clear.

[Vineheart01 6,403]

immediately is literally flavor text in xwing. they have faq'd time and time again to indicate this.

Only way they could give it merit at this point is to revert .. probably over a dozen faqs and say "Things with 'immediately' must be done first if there is a conflict in the timing window, else it is forfeited"

I find it weird though that this pilot doesnt specify whether or not it works with action bombs, when literally every single other friggen ability/card DOES do that if its even remotely a question. It looks like they meant on reveal bombs but i could totally see a valid argument for any bomb because unlike other bomb related abilities he doesnt specify either or both or neither. Deathrain is the only other one that doesnt specify afaik but he doesnt add any special timing windows a given bomb doesnt normally have while everyone else does (see: deathfire or Zuvio)

i suspect a faq to appear about this. it.. just feels like they forgot to mention it doesnt work with action bombs. As written the only thing it technically denies is adv sensors action bombs, since you havnt revealed a dial yet. It would also not work if you were ioned because, again, you cant have an after reveal trigger if you had nothing to reveal.

Edited December 4, 2017 by Vineheart01

[Thrain23 7]

Do we still use the 1 straight template or is it just the token that is touching the base?

[Parravon 5,217]

16 minutes ago, Thrain23 said:

Do we still use the 1 straight template or is it just the token that is touching the base?

Considering you can place the bomb template anywhere around your ship that's still touching your base, I would consider the 1-straight template to be redundant if you're using the ability. It is an optional ability, so if you don't use it, the normal bomb placement rules would apply.