Sato Thoughts

[GiledPallaeon 2,873]

So I've had a Rebel squad build rolling around in my head in one form or another ever since @Ginkapo designed the original version many many moons ago for a much older (and less successful) version of my dual Liberty list. Now I'm back, but this time we're using double Assault Frigates (poor maligned things that they are), and we're aiming for maximum shenanigans. Thoughts from people who have actually played Sato would be most appreciated.

Sato Theory 
Author: GiledPallaeon

Faction: Rebel Alliance
Points: 400/400  

Commander: Commander Sato

Assault Objective: Opening Salvo
Defense Objective: Contested Outpost
Navigation Objective: Superior Positions

Assault Frigate Mark II A (81 points)
-  Paragon  ( 5  points) 
-  Lando Calrissian  ( 4  points) 
-  Ordnance Experts  ( 4  points) 
-  Electronic Countermeasures  ( 7  points) 
-  H9 Turbolasers  ( 8  points) 
= 109 total ship cost

[ flagship ] Assault Frigate Mark II B (72 points)
-  Commander Sato  ( 32  points) 
-  Ahsoka Tano  ( 2  points) 
-  Flight Controllers  ( 6  points) 
-  Boosted Comms  ( 4  points) 
-  Electronic Countermeasures  ( 7  points) 
= 123 total ship cost

Hammerhead Torpedo Corvette (36 points)
-  Garel's Honor  ( 4  points) 
-  Ordnance Experts  ( 4  points) 
-  External Racks  ( 3  points) 
= 47 total ship cost

GR-75 Medium Transports (18 points)
-  Hondo Ohnaka  ( 2  points) 
-  Comms Net  ( 2  points) 
= 22 total ship cost

1 Tycho Celchu ( 16 points) 
1 Shara Bey ( 17 points) 
1 Corran Horn ( 22 points) 
2 E-Wing Squadrons ( 30 points) 
1 Rogue Squadron ( 14 points) 

I am strongly considering dropping the transport in favor of another E-wing, but I will solicit advice/suggestions first. Fire away.

[BrobaFett 4,209]

I think it looks good, ecm assault frigate are spotty. When they can shrug off damage and not be forced to shed tokens early they can be unbelievably tanky. 

@Maturin has been playing a really painful Sato against me a few times and maybe he has some lessons to share.

[Maturin 1,583]

I'd keep the transport - you might be at too great an activation disadvantage if you went with just 3, instead of 4.  Your list has greater tankiness and antisquadron support, but i worry a bit about its antiship firepower.  I think your antisquadron element is plenty strong...consider an intel ship in there?

[Ginkapo 9,321]

@Undeadguy

I want to say, "bring more bombers" but I dont really know. I am not really sure why this isnt a dodonna or ackbar list. 

[Blail Blerg 7,585]

This list honestly looks confused. And AF2 damage output isn't that high. Your squadrons also look very confused.

[Coldhands 418]

My addition to what others already said: Paragon and h9 is a gamble. Paragon can be justified and I see the reason for h9, but youll need a cf token if you need that acc against scatter. Otherwise, a dtt might be a better option. Also, if tycho is gone, youll need a plan B to have squads around enemy ships. Jan perhaps. Hidden by BiX-wings. That way they could hang around for extended duration, preventing Sato from becoming an overpriced brick.

[Undeadguy 5,749]

This looks like a version of Dual AF I played a while ago. It worked pretty well and has nice damage output. 

I'd suggest dropping Corran for 2 A-Wings and Rogue for 2 Z-95s. You'll need more deployments and squads. Might take HSA instead of CO and drop Paragon. 

[GiledPallaeon 2,873]

If I were to do Ackbar, both AFs would be Bs with Gunnery Teams, and if Dodonna they'd have XX-9s. The theory is Paragon does the punching while Sato provides support. The fighter wing should able to fight its way to the target, barring a Sloane list I think, though I'll see if I can add Intel. I'll see if I can come up with a less scrambled version, though I think this is at least worth a table try.

[SkyCake 1,183]

On 11/28/2017 at 0:52 AM, Ginkapo said:

I am not really sure why this isnt a dodonna or ackbar list. 

Said every Sato list creator ever

[racknut 25]

This is a really interesting list. I was recently working on a very similar list myself. My thought was that the Raymus MK2B would throw Norra and the 4 B's, the MK2A is a finisher and also provides some AA, while the GR75's provide support.

Faction: Rebel Alliance
Points: 399/400
Commander: Commander Sato
Assault Objective: Opening Salvo
Defense Objective: Fleet Ambush
Navigation Objective: Superior Positions

[ flagship ] Assault Frigate Mark II A (81 points)
-  Commander Sato  ( 32  points)
-  Engineering Captain  ( 6  points)
-  Ordnance Experts  ( 4  points)
-  Electronic Countermeasures  ( 7  points)
-  Spinal Armament  ( 9  points)
= 139 total ship cost

Assault Frigate Mark II B (72 points)
-  Raymus Antilles  ( 7  points)
-  Ordnance Experts  ( 4  points)
-  Expanded Hangar Bay  ( 5  points)
-  Electronic Countermeasures  ( 7  points)
= 95 total ship cost

GR-75 Medium Transports (18 points)
-  Lando Calrissian  ( 4  points)
-  Boosted Comms  ( 4  points)
-  Bomber Command Center  ( 8  points)
= 34 total ship cost

GR-75 Medium Transports (18 points)
-  Leia Organa  ( 3  points)
-  Comms Net  ( 2  points)
= 23 total ship cost

2 HWK-290s ( 24 points)
1 A-Wing Squadron ( 11 points)
1 Norra Wexley ( 17 points)
4 B-Wing Squadrons ( 56 points)

 

[Undeadguy 5,749]

6 hours ago, SkyCake said:

Said every Sato list creator ever

I can attest to this. It's also why my Dodonna and Ackbar lists become Sato lists.

[GiledPallaeon 2,873]

So having played the above, I have come away with a couple conclusions. No. 1, AF2As with Paragon and all the fixings can level ISDs given half a chance to do so. No. 2, maybe it's because I don't see all that many anymore so I've forgotten how hard they actually are to kill, but the Assault Frigates are surprisingly durable under sustained fire. No. 3, the squadron wing did well, but there's room for improvement. No. 4, ER OE Sato Hammerheads hit like a ton of bricks, provided they don't get shot at. They're really prone to vaporizing when left unattended.

I'll freely admit I went and stole this squad wing from @shmitty and his experiments, mostly for the YOLOs, partially to justify two AF2As and basically no one fitted to be a carrier. Toryn will hopefully give me that blue accuracy often enough that XI7s will be punchy through it, and I can provide very meaningful AA support against anyone who tries to alpha-strike my squadrons. I want to add Ketsu to the list (mostly for the scatter and Grit), but she's expensive enough I can't just drop down to two Bs and get there, I have to trim elsewhere, probably Toryn to Leia. Thoughts, comments, considerations?

Sato's CAs
Author: GiledPallaeon

Faction: Rebel Alliance
Points: 400/400

Commander: Commander Sato

Assault Objective: Opening Salvo
Defense Objective: Hyperspace Assault
Navigation Objective: Solar Corona

Assault Frigate Mark II A (81 points)
-  Paragon  ( 5  points)
-  Hondo Ohnaka  ( 2  points)
-  Ordnance Experts  ( 4  points)
-  Electronic Countermeasures  ( 7  points)
-  X17 Turbolasers  ( 6  points)
= 105 total ship cost

[ flagship ] Assault Frigate Mark II A (81 points)
-  Commander Sato  ( 32  points)
-  Lando Calrissian  ( 4  points)
-  Ordnance Experts  ( 4  points)
-  Electronic Countermeasures  ( 7  points)
-  X17 Turbolasers  ( 6  points)
= 134 total ship cost

Hammerhead Torpedo Corvette (36 points)
-  Ahsoka Tano  ( 2  points)
-  Ordnance Experts  ( 4  points)
-  External Racks  ( 3  points)
= 45 total ship cost

GR-75 Medium Transports (18 points)
-  Bright Hope  ( 2  points)
-  Toryn Farr  ( 7  points)
-  Comms Net  ( 2  points)
= 29 total ship cost

1 Tycho Celchu ( 16 points)
1 Shara Bey ( 17 points)
1 Hera Syndulla ( 28 points)
1 Han Solo ( 26 points)

[Ginkapo 9,321]

Ketsu in for Han?

[GiledPallaeon 2,873]

8 minutes ago, Ginkapo said:

Ketsu in for Han?

If the squad wing doesn't work out, that will probably be the first substitution, and it will give me a tiny bid too. I've used Han in the past though, and double-tapping with what is effectively a Defender is pretty great if* he isn't pounced by everyone.

*An if that's more of a certainty against better players, but hopefully everyone else can help him shoot his way out of trouble.

[Ginkapo 9,321]

Just now, GiledPallaeon said:

I've used Han in the past though, and double-tapping with what is effectively a Defender is pretty great

Thats all great and everything.... but what do you need in this list? An uber rogue (even though you have Hera), or an intel breaker in Ketsu?

You dont need Hondo, squad tokens turn 1 and then you will be fine. You have a comms net anyway. Similarly Ashoka seems like overkill. I'd quite like to see intel officers personally.

[shmitty 3,315]

5 minutes ago, GiledPallaeon said:

If the squad wing doesn't work out, that will probably be the first substitution, and it will give me a tiny bid too. I've used Han in the past though, and double-tapping with what is effectively a Defender is pretty great if* he isn't pounced by everyone.

*An if that's more of a certainty against better players, but hopefully everyone else can help him shoot his way out of trouble.

Obstacles are your best friends to keep the squads alive.   But it is a mix I really like and have had success with.  

 

2 minutes ago, Ginkapo said:

Thats all great and everything.... but what do you need in this list? An uber rogue (even though you have Hera), or an intel breaker in Ketsu?

You dont need Hondo, squad tokens turn 1 and then you will be fine. You have a comms net anyway. Similarly Ashoka seems like overkill. I'd quite like to see intel officers personally.

Absolutely agree with this.  

[GiledPallaeon 2,873]

7 minutes ago, Ginkapo said:

Thats all great and everything.... but what do you need in this list? An uber rogue (even though you have Hera), or an intel breaker in Ketsu?

You dont need Hondo, squad tokens turn 1 and then you will be fine. You have a comms net anyway. Similarly Ashoka seems like overkill. I'd quite like to see intel officers personally.

I'll see what I can do about Intel Officers, after the Dreadnoughts I am a serious fan when I can have multiples. I threw Hondo and Ashoka in there basically as defaults. Re: Ketsu vs Han, her defensive ability wasn't my focus, but Grit and Scatter. As my tradeoff, she's four hull and four points cheaper (points I may need for IO). If I had more squadrons period I might consider Lancers but I don't think I can afford squads with no defense tokens.

[Ginkapo 9,321]

Just now, GiledPallaeon said:

 I threw Hondo and Ashoka in there basically as defaults.

take a long hard look at yourself

[GiledPallaeon 2,873]

7 minutes ago, Ginkapo said:

take a long hard look at yourself

Hey now, for four points, those two are great Oh S*** capability. More than once one or the other has either saved or killed a ship, and that backup is important to me.

[Ginkapo 9,321]

Just now, GiledPallaeon said:

Hey now, for four points, those two are great Oh S*** capability. More than once one or the other has either saved or killed a ship, and that backup is important to me.

Not my issue, you used the term "default". Thats a term that I want to be nowhere near fleet building.

[GiledPallaeon 2,873]

Just now, Ginkapo said:

Not my issue, you used the term "default". Thats a term that I want to be nowhere near fleet building.

Fair enough, I stand corrected.

As for adding Intel Officers, dropping Hondo, Lando, Ahsoka, and BH leaves me four points high. That's either switching Han to Ketsu or ditching Paragon, or Toryn to Leia (least appealing).

[geek19 6,564]

I really am not sure if you need Tory (I am aware of what I said and who I am typing this) as your squadrons (if you're playing like @shmitty and I did) are way up front away from the AF. She's good at letting you reroll flak, but then you're not shooting black dice out the sides.

Theoretically, you could cut the ECM if you're good with AF. Just realize they gonna DIE faster.

Any thoughts on multiple hammerhead and one AF? Or does the repeated AF shots really help shoot stuff down faster, especially combined with XI7S?

[GiledPallaeon 2,873]

1 hour ago, geek19 said:

I really am not sure if you need Tory (I am aware of what I said and who I am typing this) as your squadrons (if you're playing like @shmitty and I did) are way up front away from the AF. She's good at letting you reroll flak, but then you're not shooting black dice out the sides.

Theoretically, you could cut the ECM if you're good with AF. Just realize they gonna DIE faster.

Any thoughts on multiple hammerhead and one AF? Or does the repeated AF shots really help shoot stuff down faster, especially combined with XI7S?

In the one experiment I have had, any Hammerhead would have died and most 30s as well under the fire both AFs weathered. Either loss **probably** would have prevented me from killing the ISD that I did. Both ended up flying off the table, but we're blaming that on rustiness. The other advantage I get is consistent fire on any target at almost any range off any quarter of the AF2s, so my maneuver options at standoff ranges should be pleasantly wide. I may make the Toryn Leia change then, I hadn't actually thought that part through.

Addendum, said experiment was a pair of XI7 equipped I-2s.

Edited December 21, 2017 by GiledPallaeon

[Parkdaddy 626]

I think Sato lists need to be paired with a guaranteed method to start off slow rollin and then speed up to maximum speed in a single turn. 

The theory is that you get your long range black dice shots, which should be stronger long range shots than your opponent’s. Your opponent will want to close the distance to take away that advantage, which is when you speed up to zoom right past them. Burst speed

and because of that, I see Entrapment Formation as very useful to Sato. 

[Parkdaddy 626]

I think Sato lists need to be paired with a guaranteed method to start off slow rollin and then speed up to maximum speed in a single turn. 

The theory is that you get your long range black dice shots, which should be stronger long range shots than your opponent’s. Your opponent will want to close the distance to take away that advantage, which is when you speed up to zoom right past them. Burst speed

and because of that, I see Entrapment Formation as very useful to Sato.