Jump to content
Timathius

Regional Results thread.

Recommended Posts

4 hours ago, Transmogrifier said:

pretty sure it was:

41 Norra w/ Push the Limit, R2-D2, C-3PO, Vectored Thrusters, Alliance Overhaul

39 Poe (8) w/ Adaptability, R5-P9, Advanced Optics, Autothrusters, Black One

20 Fenn w/ Adaptability

We need a word for the mixed emotion when you see someone win big with your favorite underrated pilot. I'm simultaneously happy for Mike and slightly disappointed I didn't come up with this list myself. And know even if I had there's no way I would've flown it half as well. Great job, Mike!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 hours ago, GreenDragoon said:

I don't understand why there's no Chopper and Guidance Chips on it.
First, an opponent might mistake Chopper-Crew for Chopper-Mech, and wrongfully believe he can regen (hence the chips).
Second, this Chopper gives the credible threat of an action despite being stressed. Which makes everything a bit more complicated.

Knowing Mike he probably just forgot.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Wittrik said:

Are there any results from the regionals in France?

The Montpellier Regional (South) was Empire-heavy. Top8 was 1 Poe/Dash, 1 triple-scruggs/harpoon, 1 rebel list with a B/SF-17 and 5 imperial lists. 3 of these were featuring Major Vyner with Push the Limit, OS-1 Arsenal Loadout, Advanced SLAM and missile to taste.

Juggler is coming.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
17 minutes ago, elppit said:

Hmmm check out Kylo barrel roll at 1:02 in the Queensland Regional final.

https://www.twitch.tv/videos/216189967

Didn't think you can move the 1 straight twice for barrel roll positioning.

Naughty move considering he then nukes dengar.

Yeah, I've always played that once you lift your ship, that BR template must stay where it is. I've had numerous judges say the same thing. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 minutes ago, Crit Happens said:

Yeah, I've always played that once you lift your ship, that BR template must stay where it is. I've had numerous judges say the same thing. 

FAQ p.6
Performing a Barrel Roll
When performing a barrel roll, a player must first declare from which side of the ship’s base the action will be performed. Then, he measures to see if the ship is able to perform a barrel roll action to any legal area on the declared side, moving the template as necessary. If the ship can perform the barrel roll action on the declared side, it must do so. If the ship cannot perform the barrel roll action, the player may declare a barrel roll in the other direction, or he may declare a different action.

 

I added the underline and emphasis. Your allowed to move it. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 minutes ago, Danath said:

FAQ p.6
Performing a Barrel Roll
When performing a barrel roll, a player must first declare from which side of the ship’s base the action will be performed. Then, he measures to see if the ship is able to perform a barrel roll action to any legal area on the declared side, moving the template as necessary. If the ship can perform the barrel roll action on the declared side, it must do so. If the ship cannot perform the barrel roll action, the player may declare a barrel roll in the other direction, or he may declare a different action.

 

I added the underline and emphasis. Your allowed to move it. 

Necessary means if you need to. 

Example: declare BR left, and you try forward left, but it would put you on a rock. Put ship back, try backwards left because it was necessary to try. 

If forward left fits, you need to stick with it as it was not necessary to adjust the template.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 minutes ago, Crit Happens said:

Necessary means if you need to. 

Example: declare BR left, and you try forward left, but it would put you on a rock. Put ship back, try backwards left because it was necessary to try. 

If forward left fits, you need to stick with it as it was not necessary to adjust the template.

In order to BR to "any legal area," as is permitted by the rules, it can easily be "necessary" to shift the template.  It's not "necessary if illegal," it's "necessary if needed to complete a desired legal placement."

The "you can't lift the template once set" is a weird made-up rule.  All you have to declare for BR is which side.

That said, if you intend to move it, you need to make absolutely sure you have a refrence point -- e.g., "it's all the way forward" -- so that you can restore the game state.  If you can't, you're stuck.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, Jeff Wilder said:

In order to BR to "any legal area," as is permitted by the rules, it can easily be "necessary" to shift the template.  It's not "necessary if illegal," it's "necessary if needed to complete a desired legal placement."

The "you can't lift the template once set" is a weird made-up rule.  All you have to declare for BR is which side.

That said, if you intend to move it, you need to make absolutely sure you have a refrence point -- e.g., "it's all the way forward" -- so that you can restore the game state.  If you can't, you're stuck.

the bolded part is also a weird made-up rule though... That's where fishy things can happen if the opponent isn't watching like a hawk. 

"BR left. It's all the way forward (but it actually isn't...), oh, that's not really where I want it, I'll slide it to the back."

Now it's possible for that person to game the barrel rolling system to artificially control range, taking them to an illegal placement.

 

Obviously, we are interpreting the word necessary in slightly different ways, and I don't think we will change each others' minds, which is fine. It's something that when I see, I will continue to call over a judge. 

 

Also, to be clear, Morgans BR did end up in a legal place, and him changing that position had no impact on the game. The result would not have changed. I'm just pointing out that based on your (and others') interpretation of that clause, it opens up some more room to cheat with barrel rolls. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

First, you should be watching your opponent anyway, especially if a BR is so close as to be in question.

Second, BR is actually very clear: you only have to commit to a side.  There is simply nothing in the rules that says you are committed to ... what, exactly?  The initial placement of the template?  The placement of the template if you take your finger off it?  The placement of the template if you lift the ship?  What, exactly, and who decides that?  Because the rule doesn't speak to it at all.

Third, "preserving the game state" is not a "made-up rule" ... it's implicit in nearly everything in the game.  You take care measuring TLs, for example, because you don't want to disturb the game state, and if you do, you take care to restore it.  Does being able to freely measure TLs "open up some more room to cheat" for people willing to do so?  I suppose it does, sure.  That doesn't change the rule.

Fourth, if you really want to slow the game to a crawl by making sure that nobody commits to a BR without 10 minutes of study, for sure use the made up rule "you can't move the template once you've <insert made up parameter here>."

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, Jeff Wilder said:

First, you should be watching your opponent anyway, especially if a BR is so close as to be in question.

Second, BR is actually very clear: you only have to commit to a side.  There is simply nothing in the rules that says you are committed to ... what, exactly?  The initial placement of the template?  The placement of the template if you take your finger off it?  The placement of the template if you lift the ship?  What, exactly, and who decides that?  Because the rule doesn't speak to it at all.

Third, "preserving the game state" is not a "made-up rule" ... it's implicit in nearly everything in the game.  You take care measuring TLs, for example, because you don't want to disturb the game state, and if you do, you take care to restore it.  Does being able to freely measure TLs "open up some more room to cheat" for people willing to do so?  I suppose it does, sure.  That doesn't change the rule.

Fourth, if you really want to slow the game to a crawl by making sure that nobody commits to a BR without 10 minutes of study, for sure use the made up rule "you can't move the template once you've <insert made up parameter here>."

Preserving the gamestate is the exact reason for not moving the template once the ship is lifted.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, Crit Happens said:

Preserving the gamestate is the exact reason for not moving the template once the ship is lifted.

So if that can be done another way -- say, by noting exactly where the template is -- then it's fine, right?

Note that in one very narrow respect, you're right: if the game state can't be preserved properly, the BRing player is stuck.  That is true.

But if the game state can be preserved properly, there's nothing in the rules prohibiting moving the template.

In any event, you should probably take this to the Rules forum.  Your impression of the rules isn't currently the way they work, but, as you said, you're not going to accept that.  The Rules forum may have people willing to continue to try to get through, though.

Edited by Jeff Wilder

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
59 minutes ago, Jeff Wilder said:

In any event, you should probably take this to the Rules forum.  Your impression of the rules isn't currently the way they work, but, as you said, you're not going to accept that.  The Rules forum may have people willing to continue to try to get through, though.

I did a search on the Rules forum and it's exactly the same as it is here. Two different sides with no conclusion, at least via the 4-6 threads I read. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It's an interesting debate and I have heard/seen both sides of the interpretation. I think (and have always played) that the key to adjusting the BR template is to ensure you and your opponent have the absolute correct reference point and verbally declare (and allow time for your opponent to review) it when adjusting the Barrel Roll.

As an example from the link at 1.02 (https://www.twitch.tv/videos/216189967) - I (and generally all tournament players) will always say - 'Rolling right Front to Front'. Once in position I will commentate what I'm doing - 'Adjusting Back to Back'. That way my opponent knows exactly what I am doing and as you see in the video - Adam leans over to confirm I am not playing silly buggers and ensuring that the template lines up perfectly with my base as I've declared.

I will often look at people after commentating/adjusting a Barrel Rolls and ask them if they are happy before I adjust and/or remove the template. I think this (combined with doing it slowly and commentating/allowing opponent to review everything) is a good way of ensuring your opponent is satisfied you are not trying to do anything underhand. 

You can see Adam does a similar thing about 30 seconds earlier with Dengar but is happy with the revised template position and doesn't move it once Dengar had rolled. Perfectly fine (with both players and judge) if Adam wanted to shift the template as described above.

I think issues could arise if you/opponent rush or gloss over a delicate Barrel Roll adjustment without commentary and allowing opponent time to review.

The key to ensuring a good spirited yet highly competitive game is to communicate clearly and allow your opponents opportunity to follow and review everything you are doing. That way both players are engaged and understand what is occurring at all times.

Edited by MorganR

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×