Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
Kdubb

Deathrain and Trajectory Simulator Doesn't work.

Recommended Posts

9 minutes ago, kris40k said:

Ehh... that would take a great deal of weaseling to try to get to work. The rules state that you can only drop one bomb per turn (rules ref pg 7) and the Trajectory Simulator states that you can "launch bombs ... instead of dropping them." While someone might try to argue somehow that "launching" a bomb does not count as "dropping" a bomb, I would argue back that since you can launch "instead of dropping" and not in addition to, it uses the once per turn opportunity to drop a bomb to instead launch.

I wouldn't be surprised if someone tries it enough that it gets added into the next FAQ though.

It seems RAI deathrain should be able to use trajectory simulator. RAW he cannot. However RAW means I could drop an action bomb while launching a reveal one. 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, RufusDaMan said:

It seems RAI deathrain should be able to use trajectory simulator. RAW he cannot. However RAW means I could drop an action bomb while launching a reveal one. 

 

Deathrain can use the simulator fine, just as every other ship can. It just does not trigger the second part of his pilot ability so he does not get a free barrel roll.

I disagree with your second statement, due to my explanation in the part you quoted; RAW you can launch a bomb "instead of  dropping" when you have the opportunity to drop a bomb. You can only drop a bomb once per round by the RAW.

Basically, Deathrain can drop on-reveal and action bombs 1 behind, or 1 forward, and barrel roll, or he can use the simulator to launch a on-reveal bomb with the 5 forward and not roll. Its just another option for that pilot.

Edit: Oh, and just for reference, you can look at the wording of Feedback Array:

  • During the Combat phase, instead of performing any attacks, you may...

And we know you don't get to perform an attack after using Feedback Array, because you chose to do that instead of attacking. Similarly, when you launch a bomb instead of dropping a bomb, you don't get to drop a bomb afterwards.

Edited by kris40k

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The Punisher exists to sell copies of Twin Ion MkII. I wish people would stop crying to fix the ship and start boycotting buying the expansion so FFG will be forced to put the Twin Ion upgrade in a set with a ship more players care about. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
12 hours ago, Kdubb said:

So this doesn't work. But I didn't look at the card closely enough as, you know, you would think it SHOULD work. Here is the useless work I did.

Thanks @Kdubb for your hard work, I too wanted something out of this wave assist the Punisher to make it playable. You sir are a true patriot.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
58 minutes ago, jmswood said:

The Punisher exists to sell copies of Twin Ion MkII. I wish people would stop crying to fix the ship and start boycotting buying the expansion so FFG will be forced to put the Twin Ion upgrade in a set with a ship more players care about. 

But we DO care about the Punisher, it's the most badass looking TIE out there. That's one reason why we want so much for it to have a place

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, clanofwolves said:

Thanks @Kdubb for your hard work, I too wanted something out of this wave assist the Punisher to make it playable. You sir are a true patriot.

 

1 Forward to victory.

  • Deathrain, UR, Bomblets, Trajectory Sim, LWF @ 34pts

On reveal, launch a bomblet 5 forward, move 1 forward, take a Focus. Most things closing in-arc takes 2 dice they can't evade from the bomblet, and a 3 die shot from UR. That is potentially a good bit of pain. Deathrain also has the ability to drop a bomblet 1 forward in front, then barrel roll forward left or right, then 4K and be out of the bomb radius. You won't be able to use rockets that turn unless you have another source of Focus, but that's more a maneuver benefiting from AdvSensors instead of the Trajectory Sim, but you may end up throwing 3 dice from your primary at range 1 anyways. LWF is pretty much a given on a Punisher unless you are running legit torps or missiles instead of fitting it bomber, which you wouldn't be running Deathrain as anything other than a bomber. Decisions, decisions.

I don't think its worth 34pts, but its got some bite.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, RufusDaMan said:

Technically however you can drop and launch a bomb in the same turn. 

 

Yah, which might actually make this a decent combo with Deathrain. He would still get his barrel roll, and with his maneuver and action he could still clear the blast radius of both. Dropping 2 Bomblets could be decent, maybe.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
13 hours ago, HolySorcerer said:

Sorry.  I try and point it out as soon as it's brought up, I'd hate for people to be under the mistaken impression that there is a use for the Punisher.

 

I feel like the "and Trajectory Simulator" part of this thread's title could've been safely removed without adversely affecting someone's understanding of its content.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Hooba Jooba said:

But we DO care about the Punisher, it's the most badass looking TIE out there. That's one reason why we want so much for it to have a place

I never said no one cares about the Punisher. You have to admit Punisher fans are a minority. I’m just asking that minority to take a hit for the team so the greater body of Imperial players can get an essential upgrade from a source they actually like. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, jmswood said:

I never said no one cares about the Punisher. You have to admit Punisher fans are a minority. I’m just asking that minority to take a hit for the team so the greater body of Imperial players can get an essential upgrade from a source they actually like. 

I'm afraid that won't do. 

I want FFG to admit and correct the mistake they did with the Punisher, and make it as powerful as the k-wings and the scurrg. 

I will not shut up about it. Neither did the gunboat folk. They got what they wanted. 

And it wouldn't hurt anybody to actually have the punisher fixed. 

 

Just because there are more of you, your wishes are suddenly not more important. And the game suffers from the punisher being weaker, not just its fans. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 minutes ago, jmswood said:

I never said no one cares about the Punisher. You have to admit Punisher fans are a minority. I’m just asking that minority to take a hit for the team so the greater body of Imperial players can get an essential upgrade from a source they actually like. 

I surely am and have always found comfort in being in the minority, haha. I think with all the crazy powerful bombing stuff out here and being released, the Imp faction should have some OP toys in this area too, in cannon they would surely have the biggest sticks to wield. Imps have the Bomber (that doesn't bomb) and the Punisher (that really doesn't punish).

The Punisher needs a Title buff.

Get off your rumps bomb pushing FFG, and bring some actual balance.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, jmswood said:

The Punisher exists to sell copies of Twin Ion MkII. I wish people would stop crying to fix the ship and start boycotting buying the expansion so FFG will be forced to put the Twin Ion upgrade in a set with a ship more players care about. 

The Punisher needs a title that allows it to launch 2 missiles/torps per turn.  It would be on the player to make that work, especially without a EPT.  BUT, the **** thing might be able to contribute without dying with all its tubes full.

The other "fix" would be to have had Mine Mapper work in the broken way for the Punisher.  At least the T/P could have been the best mine boat in the game.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The Punisher really wasn't that bad when it came out with wave 7. I flew them to good effect back then, and one of my friends took a Vader/Redline/Palp list to win a store champs. They've just fallen behind a fair bit compared to everything else. They're still better than pre-fix Advanced and Defenders were.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think you'd really need a couple titles to fix the Punisher, one for bombing and one for missiles/torps.

TIE/IT Ordinance Carrier: 0 points. TIE Punisher Only: Your action bar gains the Reload action. After you perform an attack with a Missile or Torpedo secondary weapon, you may acquire a target lock on the defender. You may equip two additional modification upgrades that cost 1 or fewer squad points.

TIE/IT Bombing Refit: 0 points. TIE Punisher Only: Your upgrade bar gains 2 Bomb slots. You may drop more than one bomb per turn. When dropping a bomb, you may use the 2 Straight or Bank templates instead of the 1 Straight.

Modification: Advanced Bomb Chutes: 1 point. TIE only: You may perform a free action from one of your equipped Bomb upgrade cards either when you reveal, or after you perform, a green maneuver.

Enhanced Ordinance Capacity: 2 points. TIE only: 2 Bomb slots: When you equip this card, place 4 ordinance tokens on each equipped Bomb upgrade card. When you are instructed to discard a card, you may discard an Ordinance token on that card instead.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yeah, give it the Defender treatment (kinda).

Advanced TIE Bomber to let it drop multiple bombs. 

TIE/IT Interdictor to utilize those four fire-linked launchers and crazy capacity. After you perform a [Torpedo] or [Missile] attack, perform another secondary weapon attack, or perform a free Reload action. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, DarkArk said:

They're still better than pre-fix Advanced and Defenders were.

Wait, the prefix of all of those ships is T I E. . .

2 hours ago, UnitOmega said:

I think it's funnier if you use the actual model number, TIE/IT. IT needs some help. I want to use IT. etc. 

IT.  Preferred ship of space clowns the galaxy over!

61hOK8PuzCL._SY300_QL70_.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
18 hours ago, HolySorcerer said:

Sorry.  I try and point it out as soon as it's brought up, I'd hate for people to be under the mistaken impression that there is a use for the Punisher.

I enjoy using them.  They'll likely never be top-tier competitive, but they're plenty decent at the store tournament level and casual play.  They're overcosted, but better than you give them credit for.

Can load up 3 of them with TS, bombs, UGR, and LWF for a decently tanky list that still puts out damage.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, RufusDaMan said:

I'm afraid that won't do. 

I want FFG to admit and correct the mistake they did with the Punisher, and make it as powerful as the k-wings and the scurrg. 

I will not shut up about it. Neither did the gunboat folk. They got what they wanted. 

And it wouldn't hurt anybody to actually have the punisher fixed.

Just because there are more of you, your wishes are suddenly not more important. And the game suffers from the punisher being weaker, not just its fans. 

The real mistake for Imperial bombing goes all the way back to the TIE Bomber. The TIE Punisher is just a bigger brick in the same wall.

The Gunboat crowd were vocal, and they picked a ship with a lot of interesting design potential. No matter how you slice it, the TIE Punisher is mostly an overgrown TIE Bomber.

You’re right, a Punisher fix wouldn’t hurt anyone.

My wishes are not more important than yours, just more realistic. The Empire should have competitive bombing options. A Punisher fix is not the only potential solution to that problem, and out of all the potential solutions, fixing the Punisher is the least marketable, unless they’re going to bundle that fix with another product. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 hours ago, Azrapse said:

...

However there is someone in the testing team that consistently tells them these cards would make the Punishing One overpowered or something. There is no other explanation.
Look at Saturation Salvo, R3 Astromech, Jamming Beam... All of them are interesting designs that clearly look overnerfed during testing to the point that it makes them useless. The devs have said in some occasions that they always start with an overpowered design and nerf it during testing because it's easier to see what's too powerful than what's too weak.

Fixed it for ya;)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, RufusDaMan said:

I'm afraid that won't do. 

I want FFG to admit and correct the mistake they did with the Punisher, and make it as powerful as the k-wings and the scurrg. 

I will not shut up about it. Neither did the gunboat folk. They got what they wanted. 

And it wouldn't hurt anybody to actually have the punisher fixed. 

 

Just because there are more of you, your wishes are suddenly not more important. And the game suffers from the punisher being weaker, not just its fans. 

*Claps hands*

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 hours ago, RogueLeader42 said:

I have the feeling that with the Launch rule introduced there migth be an FAQ rewording Deathrains ability.

Why would they do that?  They explicitly used the word "Launch" to stop it from triggering all abilities that trigger after a "drop".  If they wanted to allow Deathrain and all other abilities to work they would have just said "When you drop a bomb before revealing your maneuver dial you may drop it out the front guides of your ship using the 5-straight template instead."  They purposefully invented new language just to stop Deathrain.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this  

×