Ikoma Ujiaki

[L5RBr 178]

If you have no proinces facedown, you are able to use his ability or not?

It seems the only cost is discarding the imperial favor, but there is a doubt about the word "then" rule..

[LuceLineGames 131]

The ability has nothing to do with provinces being face up or down.

[Tabris2k 1,106]

10 minutes ago, LuceLineGames said:

The ability has nothing to do with provinces being face up or down.

He means face-down cards in your provinces. 

And yes, you can still use his ability if you don’t have any face-down card. 

[AradonTemplar 343]

They meant cards in provinces. Ikoma Ujiaki says to turn all your facedown cards in provinces faceup, Then do something. Since there are no facedown cards in the province, you can't complete the preceding part and still change the game state, so I would guess no, you can't use his ability if you don't play at least one thing from your provinces.

 

I don't like that rule, that even the individual parts of a multi-step card have to have tangible effects on the board, but then again, I don't like the "must change game state" rule at all. But I don't make the rules!

 

Edit: I don't see how this is different from the Raise the Alarm question, if Tabris2k above me is correct.

Edited November 24, 2017 by AradonTemplar

[Horizonshard 38]

In order to use his ability there must be at least one province face down.  This is due to the fact that the word "Then" is used for bringing the two characters into play.  The statement after a "then" must have the statement before it be successful.  For a statement to be successful it must have changed the game state somehow.  So the statement "turn each facedown card in each of your provinces face up" must turn at least one card face up to change the game state and allow the next line to take effect.

Rules reference text (pg16): The word “Then” If the effect text of a card ability includes the word “then,” the text preceding the word then must be successfully resolved in full (i.e. the game state must change to reflect the intent of the pre-then aspect of the effect in its entirety) before the remainder of the effect described after the word “then” can be resolved

[AradonTemplar 343]

Can we sequester the phrase in the rule "reflect the intent of the pre-then aspect of the effect in its entirety," and instead interpret that to mean that the overall effect must be true in order to satisfy the pre-then, or is the 'must change' mandatory? What I mean is, could it be interpreted that "change to reflect the ... effect in its entirety" might just require that the pre-then must be completed without obstruction (such as reprieving a sacrifice), rather than require a non-zero change. Turning each face-down card face-up can be achieved without a change in the game state, but still "reflecting the pre-then aspect of the effect in its entirety."

[Tabris2k 1,106]

48 minutes ago, AradonTemplar said:

Edit: I don't see how this is different from the Raise the Alarm question, if Tabris2k above me is correct.

No, I’m not. Sorry I was mistaken. You have to have at least one face-down card to trigger his ability. I mistook this with the fact that he can bring into play any characters from the provinces, not just those that you just put face-up. 

[LuceLineGames 131]

1 hour ago, Tabris2k said:

He means face-down cards in your provinces. 

How do you know that's what he means?  He may be under the impression that a face down card in a province includes the province itself.

[Gomeso 2]

Ikoma Ujiaki's ability cannot be used if all cards in your provinces are faceup. (If the pre-Then aspect of an effect does not successfully resolve in full, the post-Then aspect does not attempt to resolve.)

and is has to be in your provinces not the province itself

[Tabris2k 1,106]

40 minutes ago, LuceLineGames said:

How do you know that's what he means?

I have psychic powers

[LuceLineGames 131]

39 minutes ago, Tabris2k said:

I have psychic powers

My point exactly. Without clarifying the question, you're just answering your own assumed questions, which is misleading to others reading the thread.