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Zrob314

Thoughts on the app and the future of campaign...

39 posts in this topic

I did the intro mission of HotE last night with some friends and thoughts about the app rulebook led me to some conclusions.

I could be wrong in any of these, but I think they're pretty fair guesses.

What we know:

The campaign that will be released is 5 story missions long.

HotE is 5 story missions long

The app says in a campaign you can earn three (Edit FOUR) upgrade cards.  A 1 a 2 a 3 and a 4

HotE missions give 1 xp for the first mission and 2 for every mission after that.  Without side missions that's 7 xp same as the app campaign.

Side missions aren't a thing in the app.  Instead you have encounters.  As you can only earn three XP upgrades in the app campaign it's safe to infer that the encounters aren't actual missions that you set up, run and kill things, but rather flavor text maybe an animation and then a reward is given (card reward, character reward or ally but no xp)

Previous games that went from one vs. many to cooperative app no longer get new missions published for their one vs. many versions.  New editions of the games don't reprint the old campaigns and mission (Descent/Mansions of Madness and there is no way to play these old missions without having the first edition of the game, or at least a pdf of the mission booklets which is not provided by FFG)

So with the knowledge of what happened in Descent and MoM and if my inference is correct here's what we can expect:

1) The 6 Published campaigns will be the only published 1 vs Many campaigns. No more will be made.

2) Future blister packs will come with a skirmish map, but will not come with a campaign mission.

3) New Boxes will be more akin to the "Streets of Arkham" box that just got released.  Figures, Tiles and some app missions, but no campaign booklet.

 

None of this is me saying that the game sucks or they ruined everything or the game is dead or anything negative.

I'm just making some predictions using easily observable evidence and precedent from what FFG has done in the past.  

I'd love it if I find out I'm wrong, but I really don't think I will.

 

Edited by Zrob314

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You bring some fair and logical arguments.  But there is a paragraph on the App announcement page that might lead to another conclusion :

 

What about traditional campaigns and the skirmish game?

Legends of the Alliance was not designed to replace the traditional campaign or the skirmish game for Imperial Assault. Instead, all three variants will continue to exist side-by-side, providing separate play experiences for players to enjoy.

Of course it is not explicitly mentioned that they will still release campaign content, but it's says that all 3 variants will continue to exist (App, traditional campaign and skirmish) which in a sense does not guarantee new content, it's true.   Further more it says that the App was not designed to replace the existing mode.  While this is again no guarantee that new physical expansion booklets will not be produced, I feel "not designed to replace" is strong enough to expect that they will still support the game for those who wants to play the campaign as a 1 vs all game.  The difference between the games that you used as examples, is that IA is all about Star Wars, a bigger licence from which they can make more money by supporting App campaign and traditional campaign than they could with Descent I suppose, considering that Descent has much more competition from a thematic point of view (medieval dungeon crawling game) than IA has (star wars themed dungeon crawling game).   But in the end, my opinion is as good as yours.

 

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1 hour ago, Zrob314 said:

The app says in a campaign you can earn three upgrade cards.  A 1 then a 2 then a 3/4.

HotE missions give 1 xp for the first mission and 2 for every mission after that.  Without side missions that's 7 xp same as the app campaign.

The app gets you 10 XP.  It’s four class cards. 1->2->3->4.

 

1 hour ago, Zrob314 said:

2) Future blister packs will come with a skirmish map, but will not come with a campaign mission.

This doesn’t make sense to me.  Without the campaign mission  you couldn’t earn those figures in the previous campaigns.  Did MoM or Descent have anything like allies to set this precedent?

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Sure,

 

Well, first off Legends of the Alliance is a Box (note, it has a components list) and in that box they're getting rid of Darth Vader and Luke Skywalker figures (and associated maps)....they're just Tokens.  That's found on page 3 of the rule book.  Also page two has instructions on how to download the app, so I don't think that's part of the app because why would you need instructions to download it if you already had it?

You are right, it is 4 upgrades, expected to be a 1 a 2 a 3 and a 4 (at least that's how I extrapolate from incomplete information on page 19 in the left column).

Descent and MoM don't have allies.

What I'm saying is that there will be no new Imp Player v Rebel Players campaigns.  If there are no new campaigns like that then FFG has no reason to devise a campaign mission for new blister packs.  Why make new missions for blister packs when you can just use those maps on the app?  You're effectively splitting development resources.  

If anything buying a blister might open up new campaign missions or campaigns or encounters" but you're not going to be able to fold them into what is now an obsolete form of the game.  LotA isn't "replacing" traditional campaign mode.  You can still play that way.

Similarly the car didn't replace horses.  You can still ride horses...but transportation policy decisions aren't made with horses in mind. 

 

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Further thoughts on the component list:

Villain Blisters (if they keep releasing them) might not even have skirmish stuff. 

The new box doesn't include any of the following items:

Skirmish Mission Cards

Agenda Cards

Imperial Class Cards

Command Cards

Skirmish Guide

AN INITIATIVE TOKEN

 

So if this is geared toward new players, how is the new player supposed to try or get into skirmish?

If this isn't geared toward new players, why does it exist? Current players have everything but the app and more. 

Edited by Zrob314

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I don't think that there's an actual box associated with the Legends of the Alliance campaign.  That components list is probably just there to let you know what components you need from the core game.

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Then how come that page looks exactly like the 3rd page of MoM 2nd Edition?

It doesn't say anywhere "This is What you need" it just says "Competent list for Legends of the Alliance"

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2 minutes ago, Zrob314 said:

Then how come that page looks exactly like the 3rd page of MoM 2nd Edition?

It doesn't say anywhere "This is What you need" it just says "Competent list for Legends of the Alliance"

The rules for Road to Legend (the Descent app) also had a components list and told you how to download the app.  There was no box for that one, either.

https://images-cdn.fantasyflightgames.com/filer_public/7b/b8/7bb86de6-7427-48e8-bdeb-6ba01e5874ae/road_to_legend_rules.pdf

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There is a components list, because they will include a printed copy of the Legends of the Alliance Rulebook with future printings of the Core box.

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18 hours ago, Zrob314 said:

Then how come that page looks exactly like the 3rd page of MoM 2nd Edition?

It doesn't say anywhere "This is What you need" it just says "Competent list for Legends of the Alliance"

There is roughly a 0.0% chance of a physical box. 

Its just bad terminology on the rulebook

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LotA Rulebook, page 2. said:

GAME OVERVIEW

Legends of the Alliance provides a cooperative mode of play for Imperial Assault and its expansions. In Legends of the Alliance, one to four hero players must work together to overcome the challenges presented to them by the companion app.
Legends of the Alliance uses the majority of the physical contents of the Imperial Assault core game. In general, the app tells players how and when those contents are used, as well as controlling the enemies and presenting the narrative to the players.

 

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I think there is still so much intellectual property that has yet to be incorporated into the game that there’s a fair chance of at least another box.

I for one would still like to see 4-LOM & Zuckuss.

And Ewoks…mustn’t forget Ewoks!

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3 hours ago, Marcus2410 said:

I think there is still so much intellectual property that has yet to be incorporated into the game that there’s a fair chance of at least another box.

I for one would still like to see 4-LOM & Zuckuss.

And Ewoks…mustn’t forget Ewoks!

I'm not at all saying there won't be another box.

I'm saying that box won't have a paper published campaign for a group of up to 5 players Imperial vs. Rebels

See: Mansions of Madness Streets of Arkham

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2 hours ago, Zrob314 said:

I'm not at all saying there won't be another box.

I'm saying that box won't have a paper published campaign for a group of up to 5 players Imperial vs. Rebels

See: Mansions of Madness Streets of Arkham

But that's a faulty comparison.  With MoM 2nd ed, one HAS to use the app.  There is never an option for a 1 v 4 player game.  As such, an expansion for a game that always uses an app for the "5th player" would never include scenarios.

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7 hours ago, Zrob314 said:

I'm not at all saying there won't be another box.

I'm saying that box won't have a paper published campaign for a group of up to 5 players Imperial vs. Rebels

See: Mansions of Madness Streets of Arkham

The day before they released the app, FFG announced a new boxed expansion for Descent. Just saying. 

I still think we have one more small box coming. Wait for the app to come out. Then wait another 60-90 days before we go throwing around things like "No more boxed expansions."

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@Zrob314 I'm a campaign player and I hate full coop games. If you ask me Pandemic is mediocre and without a real challenge. However I hope it will be like you said, because it's much better to have a mediocre full coop game rather than a broken semi coop campaign. I have never played one campaign where both faction enjoyed. One of the two got bored because too easy for them to own the other faction. The other faction got too frustrated for not giving up with the game.

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On 11/25/2017 at 2:45 AM, Golan Trevize said:

@Zrob314 I'm a campaign player and I hate full coop games. If you ask me Pandemic is mediocre and without a real challenge. However I hope it will be like you said, because it's much better to have a mediocre full coop game rather than a broken semi coop campaign. I have never played one campaign where both faction enjoyed. One of the two got bored because too easy for them to own the other faction. The other faction got too frustrated for not giving up with the game.

I'm really sorry to hear that. 

First I'd ask you at what level you're playing Pandemic.  That game has many options to increase or decrease the difficulty.  That's one of the reasons it's the best coop game IMHO.  5 Epidemics with a Virulent and mutating strain while all the players are using non synergized roles is not something I could call either mediocre or lacking a challenge.

As to a 1 vs many game, well it's on the players of the games to keep it from being a boring snowball.

Sometimes that means one side or the other has to throttle themselves to keep the experience from getting stale.  

I just started HotE with a new group.  They ended up losing the first chapter.  It was close, and it came down to a make or break attack by Murne that missed.  I has to cool my jets to keep that from happening but I'd rather it be a toss up in round 6 than know in the middle of round 3 or 4 that the rebels cannot win no matter what they do.

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2 minutes ago, Zrob314 said:

First I'd ask you at what level you're playing Pandemic.  That game has many options to increase or decrease the difficulty.  That's one of the reasons it's the best coop game IMHO.  5 Epidemics with a Virulent and mutating strain while all the players are using non synergized roles is not something I could call either mediocre or lacking a challenge.

No expansions, at max epidemics I managed to win only a couple of times. Anyway more losses than victories. Anyway different game, different forum for that...

10 minutes ago, Zrob314 said:

Sometimes that means one side or the other has to throttle themselves to keep the experience from getting stale.

I call this bad design, simple as that. A much better way to structure a campaign would have been to give same amount of XP, credits and influence no matter who the winner is. The winner would get some number of VPs as a reward depending on the type of mission played and the threat level, perhaps unblocking events during a mission may grant optional VPs to one of the factions. At the end of the campaign who has most VPs wins. This way factions can't get unbalanced because of the snowball effect (they can be unbalanced if players ability is unbalanced). Also an exponential VPs assignment would ensure a very little chance to get to the final mission with a clear winner. Even in the case you know the winner in advance, you still want to play the final mission just for the sake of knowing how the plot ends. Of course we have to assume that the story had a plot and that events in final mission may slightly modify the ending (like in Mass Effect, if you know what I mean).

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What am I missing? 

are yall talking about an app for Star Wars Imperial Assault? and if so how do I find it, I have been waiting to here about it fora while but can not find it. 

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1) is probably correct but the other 2 don't really make sense. Why wouldn't they put a new side mission in the blister that uses core tiles so you can actually use that ally? And why would they put work into creating a big box expansion with new tiles without making a new campaign? More likely we just won't be getting box expansions anymore...

Just. Like. Descent.

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On ‎11‎/‎24‎/‎2017 at 11:00 AM, Marcus2410 said:

I think there is still so much intellectual property that has yet to be incorporated into the game that there’s a fair chance of at least another box.

I for one would still like to see 4-LOM & Zuckuss.

And Ewoks…mustn’t forget Ewoks!

I wouldn't mind to see 4-Lom and Zuckuss either.  I would buy those.  But I do hope the next box is ewoks.  I hate ewoks.  So much.  They're the furry midget Jar-Jar gungans of the OT we all wish Lucas would have aborted.  My wallet needs a break.  

Now...I think you are bringing up some very logical points in this thread.   That said, I don't think the blisters will ever come without Skirmish stuff inside them.  I'm pretty sure Skirmish has a larger player base?  I could be wrong, or maybe that it just has a larger organized play community.  That said it would be cool if they release some new campaign-only villain packs.  I bet those could have waaaay more interesting rules and mechanics than blisters that have to function balanced in two different games.

Also, I feel like now that there is an app, most of their groundwork has been done.  Making new coop campaigns is definitely something we can look forward too, and I would be willing to wager that apps can be developed and released much more quickly than mass printed material.  Which means we will probably be seeing just more missions and generic content overall.  Who knows maybe they'll make an app-only hero, who's character sheet and cards are only kept on the app and you just use a token or w/e fig for him.    

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22 hours ago, Tvboy said:

And why would they put work into creating a big box expansion with new tiles without making a new campaign?

They will make a campaign.

It will be digital.

It will not be a 5 person Human Run Imperial vs 4 Rebel character campaign.

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On 29/11/2017 at 10:14 AM, aRandomBoardGamingDude said:

I wouldn't mind to see 4-Lom and Zuckuss either.  I would buy those.  But I do hope the next box is ewoks.  I hate ewoks.  So much.  They're the furry midget Jar-Jar gungans of the OT we all wish Lucas would have aborted.  My wallet needs a break.

FFG would truly test their customer’s loyalty if they released a Jar-Jar Binks Blister pack!

 

Edited by Marcus2410
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