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Shouldn't Way of the Dragon's trap option work only until the end of the characters next turn ?
Feels strange that you could trap an opponent's weapon, then both do something else for some time, and still benefit from your technique when you finally decide to attack them.
 

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7 hours ago, Exarkfr said:

Mirumoto Two Sword School's starting outfit says "daisho or wakizashi and any two melee weapons".
Isn't a katana a melee weapon ? Meaning you could go for second option, picking a katana and another weapon, thus ending up with daisho+another melee weapon ?

I don't know if this is RAI, but my interpretation was that, as samurai, you're expected to not have a katana and a wakizashi, but a daisho proper - swords forged together, meant to be together, two halves of an indivisible whole, and it's a huge breach of etiquette (and grounds for constant loss of Honor and Glory) to have a mismatched set like some disgusting ronin. In the spirit of this, the second option precludes picking a katana as one of your other melee weapons.

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9 hours ago, Exarkfr said:

Shouldn't Way of the Dragon's trap option work only until the end of the characters next turn ?
Feels strange that you could trap an opponent's weapon, then both do something else for some time, and still benefit from your technique when you finally decide to attack them.
 

Why. You trap their weapon attack with the other weapon disengage. both weapons are free

 

 

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It's just that the restriction of "until the beginning of your next turn" - not only for TRAP but also for WARD - does not restrict anything, since you make this choice outside of your turn, in reaction to an attack. You would not be able to do anything until the beginning of your next turn anyway, so some of us suspect that something else was intended. It would not be outlandish, given how powerful this ability is as a once-per-round thing, that it prevents you from using spinning blades or your Rank 6 ability on your next turn as well as a trade-off.

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7 hours ago, Franwax said:

It's just that the restriction of "until the beginning of your next turn" - not only for TRAP but also for WARD - does not restrict anything, since you make this choice outside of your turn, in reaction to an attack. You would not be able to do anything until the beginning of your next turn anyway, so some of us suspect that something else was intended. It would not be outlandish, given how powerful this ability is as a once-per-round thing, that it prevents you from using spinning blades or your Rank 6 ability on your next turn as well as a trade-off.

yes it does restrict things. Like attacks against you from a second person. Sure in a duel you aren't limitted. But you don't only fight duels

 

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8 hours ago, Daeglan said:

Why. You trap their weapon attack with the other weapon disengage. both weapons are free

I mean, limiting how long the bonus you get from trapping lasts.

 

And: shouldn't it require a readied melee weapon ? Or can you purposfuly use any weapon ?

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11 hours ago, MaoYoruichi said:

I don't know if this is RAI, but my interpretation was that, as samurai, you're expected to not have a katana and a wakizashi, but a daisho proper - swords forged together, meant to be together, two halves of an indivisible whole, and it's a huge breach of etiquette (and grounds for constant loss of Honor and Glory) to have a mismatched set like some disgusting ronin. In the spirit of this, the second option precludes picking a katana as one of your other melee weapons.

I very much doubt that's intended. Historically, every samurai in Rokugan has owned both a katana and wakizashi, but courtier and shugenja schools almost always list only the wakizashi in their outfit, rather than the full daisho. School outfit has always been an abstraction of your posessions into the things you probably carry daily, not the sum total of the things you own.

And then lorewise, katana and wakizashi being forged together happens only part of the time anyway. Katana are specifically passed down the generations, typically from grandparent to grandchild, so it would be very common for a samurai to wear an inherited blade alongside one forged for their gempukku. Not to mention the semi-common practice of being awarded ornate swords for especially prestigious appointments, or being granted the use of a sacred weapon, or using a trophy taken in honourable battle.

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And it says readied weapon in the ability. Being a melee fighter myself. I see no reason why a technique that uses a weapon in your hand cant be used with any weapon in your hand. Might not be optimal. but should still work.

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Hey, I'm just asking. I know it says "readied".

Thematically, it's a two-sword school. Was it intended for its ability to work with anything ?

Mechanically, your natural weapons are always ready. So you can ward or trap with your bite, and attack with a nodachi.

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2 hours ago, Daeglan said:

yes it does restrict things. Like attacks against you from a second person. Sure in a duel you aren't limitted. But you don't only fight duels

Sorry, what are you referring to? The limitation I mentioned (and I thought you did too) is "You cannot choose this weapon for Attack actions until the start of your next turn." This is the weapon you used for Ward or Trap. This does not apply to attacks against you, but to those you might want to make.

It does not matter whether you are fighting one or many opponents: since you activate this ability outside your turn, you cannot attack anything until the start of your next turn anyway. So either this sentence is superfluous, or it's badly worded and was meant to say something else.

EDIT: my bad, it seems the signals crossed and you were talking about how long the TN reduction from trap lasts. Ok

Edited by Franwax

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The point still applies, though.

  • If I TRAP with my off-hand weapon, then the penalty to your defence continues to apply until I use it, even if we have passed beyond the start of my next turn. 
    • At the point my off-hand weapon is available for attack actions again, surely your weapon can no longer be trapped?
    • The fact that it doesn't restrict your next turn's actions seems wierd. If it was until the end of your next turn, maybe?

 

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6 hours ago, Franwax said:

Sorry, what are you referring to? The limitation I mentioned (and I thought you did too) is "You cannot choose this weapon for Attack actions until the start of your next turn." This is the weapon you used for Ward or Trap. This does not apply to attacks against you, but to those you might want to make.

It does not matter whether you are fighting one or many opponents: since you activate this ability outside your turn, you cannot attack anything until the start of your next turn anyway. So either this sentence is superfluous, or it's badly worded and was meant to say something else.

EDIT: my bad, it seems the signals crossed and you were talking about how long the TN reduction from trap lasts. Ok

Or you cannot use  weapon you used to attacked with during a ward until your next turn. So you can only ward or trap twice. Responce.to incoming attacks. 

Edited by Daeglan

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10 hours ago, Daeglan said:

And it says readied weapon in the ability. Being a melee fighter myself. I see no reason why a technique that uses a weapon in your hand cant be used with any weapon in your hand. Might not be optimal. but should still work.

Soem expansion on this:

  • Still works, but should be reduced effect
    • still sheathed 
    • bagged
  • doesn't work
    • hafted held near head
    • blade carried near balance point (not ready) - such as when presenting for inspection
    • blade carried in reversed position (point down, for swords, Jitte and sai)
    • relies upon edge while holding blunt
    • relies upon flexibility while holding rigid
    • relies upon blunt while not holding blunt (but most edged have a means of a blunt strike at range 0 in reality - hilt punch and butt-strokes)
    • relies upon ready positioning (ripostes, strikes to the attacking arm, molinets)
Edited by AK_Aramis

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5 hours ago, Daeglan said:

Or you cannot use  weapon you used to attacked with during a ward until your next turn. So you can only ward or trap twice. Responce.to incoming attacks. 

Except that it calls out "once per round" anyway.   I really see the intent to be that it keeps one weapon busy for your next attack, either defending or helping batter aside your enemy's defenses.

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I haven't read through the whole forum, but I couldn't find anything using the search function.

While preparing for a game, I've stumbled upon three things that I couldn't find any clarification for yet (including the v3 Update).

  1. How does the Afflicted condition work with the Becoming Compromised/Unmasking mechanic?
    I'd assume the effect would trigger once one becomes compromised, but I might be wrong and I couldn't find any mention of it in the Update documents.
  2. The Shuji Artisan's Appraisal allows one to learn the disposition of a NPC creator of a piece of art, by spending an Opportunity. I feel like this should mean Demeanor, instead of Disposition, as it is an actual NPC mechanic.
  3. I'm wondering why the naginata is Cubersome, while the nodachi isn't? This could be intentional, but it does feel just wrong, considering that a naginata is usually depicted as quite an agile weapon.

That's all. I'll keep on working through the system now.

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I don't like fully-negative Unmaskings. I preferred tradeoffs ones. I also feel that just like combat has Wounded/Gravely Wounded, social scenes could use some Conditions that you inflict, in place of Glory losses - things like "Humiliated", "Ridiculed", "Questioned Trustworthiness", "SHAMEFUL DISPLAY", and so on.

Basically, just like you can inflict Wounds using Crits, you would be able to "bestow" Stigma upon the target, giving them some narrative/mechanical consequences until they purge the Condition away. 

Can you do it on your own, without the book telling you to do it? Yes. I still think it would be a neat gameplay mechanic emulating the genre well.

And, to tie it back to Unmaskings, I would give the Anxieties an ability to voluntarily take such a condition when Unmasking, and get a Void Point in return. 

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Gravely Wounded has the following Effect:

Quote

 Increase the TN of checks with the affected Ring by 1, plus 1 for each check they have made with that ring this scene (to a maximum of TN 8). 

It's possible this is intended to be "...plus 1 for each check they have made with that ring this scene since suffering this condition...", but if it's intended to include checks that occurred before, it's unlikely that will be easy to recall.

Edit: Also, the typo on page 4, Table 0-1, under Mirumoto, with the +1 Warth option still exists (previously pointed out by Magnus Grendel).

Edited by ubik2
added mention of remaining typo

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18 hours ago, WHW said:

I also feel that just like combat has Wounded/Gravely Wounded, social scenes could use some Conditions that you inflict, in place of Glory losses - things like "Humiliated", "Ridiculed", "Questioned Trustworthiness", "SHAMEFUL DISPLAY", and so on.

Basically, just like you can inflict Wounds using Crits, you would be able to "bestow" Stigma upon the target, giving them some narrative/mechanical consequences until they purge the Condition away. 

Our group did something like that. We turned strife into a social/mental fatigue, unified mechanics for all types of fatigue/damage and for all types of conflicts. We also did some reworking that basically let you inflict a social crit. Worked much better for us than the way conflicts/damage/srife had been thus far. Also after testing the new updates to fatigue this weekend, we prefer the rules changes we threw together.

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On 24/11/2017 at 4:14 AM, player3015634 said:

I very much doubt that's intended. Historically, every samurai in Rokugan has owned both a katana and wakizashi, but courtier and shugenja schools almost always list only the wakizashi in their outfit, rather than the full daisho. School outfit has always been an abstraction of your posessions into the things you probably carry daily, not the sum total of the things you own.

And then lorewise, katana and wakizashi being forged together happens only part of the time anyway. Katana are specifically passed down the generations, typically from grandparent to grandchild, so it would be very common for a samurai to wear an inherited blade alongside one forged for their gempukku. Not to mention the semi-common practice of being awarded ornate swords for especially prestigious appointments, or being granted the use of a sacred weapon, or using a trophy taken in honourable battle.

Oh yeah, you're absolutely correct here. I hadn't thought of all the different ways to obtain katana in-setting.

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