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RikkiP

[Errata Changes] That would be most welcome

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Some very interesting ideas and opinions on this. In the end though things are pretty stable and was good to see responses to some of my more extreme ideas :P

The only ones i really want to see though in order of priority are:

  • Quad Laser Turrets at short range - currently only working against rebel bomber swarms, any imperial bomb swarm would have rymer in there and completly make it useless. ( no real play testing required i would say on this one)
  • Cluster Bombs  - A card i really would like to see be something more than just single target. I like the idea of it hitting anything around the target at 1 or be an arc but this would require some play testing. ( probably not much but no need to make it crazy op at wiping out squadrons.)

And the big one that would be potentially meta changing:

  • Flotilla classed as squadrons on a board wipe. It would not force people to change lists but would certainly make taking some of the more extreme flotilla heavy lists far more risky.

 

 

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25 minutes ago, RikkiP said:

Some very interesting ideas and opinions on this. In the end though things are pretty stable and was good to see responses to some of my more extreme ideas :P

The only ones i really want to see though in order of priority are:

  • Quad Laser Turrets at short range - currently only working against rebel bomber swarms, any imperial bomb swarm would have rymer in there and completly make it useless. ( no real play testing required i would say on this one)
  • Cluster Bombs  - A card i really would like to see be something more than just single target. I like the idea of it hitting anything around the target at 1 or be an arc but this would require some play testing. ( probably not much but no need to make it crazy op at wiping out squadrons.)

And the big one that would be potentially meta changing:

  • Flotilla classed as squadrons on a board wipe. It would not force people to change lists but would certainly make taking some of the more extreme flotilla heavy lists far more risky.

 

 

While not opposed to the QBT change, how often are you seeing Rhymer? From what I've seen, the nerf basically killed him.

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On 11/21/2017 at 10:36 AM, shmitty said:

I mean I did manage to win Store Championships with both Garm and Sato this summer....

 

And if I could play in a Regional I’d be taking one of them.

 

Won with Garm.... and "with" Konstantine.

I mean, technically I was using Konstantine.  I more won in spite of him than because of him.

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8 minutes ago, BiggsIRL said:

Won with Garm.... and "with" Konstantine.

I mean, technically I was using Konstantine.  I more won in spite of him than because of him.

Can i see the list you built around garm? @BiggsIRL

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9 minutes ago, RikkiP said:

Can i see the list you built around garm? @BiggsIRL

Link to the fleet I used to win with Garm: http://www.steelstrategy.com/2017/05/making-garm-great-again.html

And the Sato fleet that I won with:

Commander: Commander Sato

Assault Objective: Opening Salvo
Defense Objective: Fire Lanes
Navigation Objective: Superior Positions

 

[ flagship ] Modified Pelta-class Assault Ship (56 points)
-  Commander Sato  ( 32  points) 
-  Raymus Antilles  ( 7  points) 
-  Projection Experts  ( 6  points) 
-  External Racks  ( 3  points) 
-  Shields to Maximum!  ( 6  points) 
110 total ship cost

 

Hammerhead Torpedo Corvette (36 points)
-  Task Force Antilles  ( 3  points) 
-  Ordnance Experts  ( 4  points) 
-  Assault Concussion Missiles  ( 7  points) 
50 total ship cost

 

Hammerhead Torpedo Corvette (36 points)
-  Task Force Antilles  ( 3  points) 
-  Ordnance Experts  ( 4  points) 
-  Assault Concussion Missiles  ( 7  points) 
50 total ship cost

 

Hammerhead Torpedo Corvette (36 points)
-  Task Force Antilles  ( 3  points) 
-  Ordnance Experts  ( 4  points) 
-  Assault Concussion Missiles  ( 7  points) 
50 total ship cost

 

Hammerhead Torpedo Corvette (36 points)
-  Task Force Antilles  ( 3  points) 
-  Ordnance Experts  ( 4  points) 
-  Assault Concussion Missiles  ( 7  points) 
50 total ship cost

 

1 Tycho Celchu ( 16 points) 
1 Han Solo ( 26 points) 
1 Shara Bey ( 17 points) 
1 Hera Syndulla ( 28 points) 

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4 hours ago, Jambo75 said:

Yeah, reducing the expensive Commanders would be one change. Though this could also be helped if the fleet cost went from 400 to 500!

We don't get too fussed about flotillas, as we don't play competitively so we like to experiment. However, even then there are cards that we never use:

  • Independence - thee worst title 
  • Redemption - way out of its league compared to the other two
  • Dominator / Devastator - too expensive
  • Cluster Bombs - wtf
  • QLTs & PDR - both too weak
  • Han Solo - too expensive, wasted opportunity 
  • TIE Phantom - great potential but terrible ability
  • Heavy TTs - outclassed by X17s
  • Adv Proj and X17s - please reverse the ruling
  • Overload Pulse - too expensive
  • Tagge - just eurgh
  • Tarkin / Leia / Sato - too expensive

OP cards:

  • Demo - still a game changer for 10 points
  • Dengar - oh, how we hate Dengar Howlrunner combos
  • Gunnery Teams - too cheap
  • Motti - too cheap

I'd also like to see some of the Objectives reworked, as there are some we've never used. Or, at least change it so the objective that's picked by first player is a random one, as this might encourage some more unusual ones getting playtime!


 

Sounds like you want a different game... I look at some of these suggested changes and am flabbergasted... 

Gunnery teams is already the most expensive weapons teams slot

Of course Dengar/howlrunner is an awesome combo, it’s 36 points of designed pure anti-squad specialization, fitting right in with the rest of the imp squads. Plus they only have 3 or 4 hull! I had my Dengar one shotted by Wedge the other day (2 acc and 4 hits). Felt very balanced and on theme.

Devastator is already awesome- if you dropped its points it would be an auto pick 

HTT are garbage, embrace it

Tagge is great if you build a list for him and play around his ability, it’s all about timing. Took him to a decent sized store championship and won, with his ability helping me every game

Random objectives? No thanks. Part of the strategy is considering which of the second players objectives hurts you the least, or better yet how you can turn the tables with it to work FOR you....

Some of your complaints can be attributed to “filler” cards FFG likes to give out (I don’t need ANOTHER friggen engineering teams please!). But some really have me flummoxed here

Edited by MandalorianMoose
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5 hours ago, geek19 said:

Really I feel this is the truest description of Konstantine I've ever heard.

When I get around to it, this is roughly the end of my article on Konstantine. 

If you want a strong list, use Konstantine and refine the list till it wins fairly reliably. 

Then use a different commander and replace the tractors, and be unstoppable! 

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5 hours ago, MandalorianMoose said:

Sounds like you want a different game... I look at some of these suggested changes and am flabbergasted... 

Gunnery teams is already the most expensive weapons teams slot

Of course Dengar/howlrunner is an awesome combo, it’s 36 points of designed pure anti-squad specialization, fitting right in with the rest of the imp squads. Plus they only have 3 or 4 hull! I had my Dengar one shotted by Wedge the other day (2 acc and 4 hits). Felt very balanced and on theme.

Devastator is already awesome- if you dropped its points it would be an auto pick 

HTT are garbage, embrace it

Tagge is great if you build a list for him and play around his ability, it’s all about timing. Took him to a decent sized store championship and won, with his ability helping me every game

Random objectives? No thanks. Part of the strategy is considering which of the second players objectives hurts you the least, or better yet how you can turn the tables with it to work FOR you....

Some of your complaints can be attributed to “filler” cards FFG likes to give out (I don’t need ANOTHER friggen engineering teams please!). But some really have me flummoxed here

Sounds like I want a different game? Hardly.

Gunnery teams most expensive weapons slot already... so what? It’s still an autoinclude on ISDs and Libertys. Avenger BT is only alternative.

Dengar howlrunner and Sloane = anti ship now too.

HTT crap, we agree. Point is?

Tagge is great. Hmmmk, he’s typically rated lowest tier, so I’d suggest “great” is stretching it but heyho you won a tourney with him so it must be true.

Random objectives. Ok point taken here. Still, it’s fun. :P

Edited by Jambo75

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13 minutes ago, Jambo75 said:

Gunnery teams most expensive weapons slot already... so what? It’s still an autoinclude on ISDs and Libertys. Avenger BT is only alternative.

-Flight controllers, ordinance experts, ruthless strats have all done work in that slot for me

Dengar howlrunner and Sloane = anti ship now too.

-well ya... that was the whole point of Sloane, make units that are crap vs ships decent vs ships 

HTT crap, we agree. Point is?

-Point is there will always be cards that are better and worse in Upgrade based games, why do you feel the need to drastically increase the cost of or ban the good ones?

Tagge is great. Hmmmk, he’s typically rated lowest tier, so I’d suggest “great” is stretching it but heyho you won a tourney with him so it must be true.

-There will always be things people automatically delegate to the trash heap and then someone shows that there is indeed a viable use for them (Justin’s worlds win with Y-wings, a long reviled squadron)

Random objectives. Ok point taken here. Still, it’s fun. :P

I accidentally typed my responses within your quote, and I’m on mobile so it’s easier to just bold the responses rather than try to reformat it

Edited by MandalorianMoose

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10 hours ago, Jambo75 said:

Adv Proj and X17s - please reverse the ruling

So, this was my "trigger warning" issue for a really long time, but I've come around to accepting the reasoning. I still agree that, as written, AP should trump XI7, but it definitely needed to be done to balance the MC30 (maybe some other things too, but I don't care about those things ;)  ).

A very big part of the MC30's balance is the threat of getting one-shotted on approach to its hardest counters, ISD2's and Ackbar MC80's with XI7's. If it took another 2 damage to do so, the likelihood of that happening drops from roughly 50/50 (depending on the precise factors involved) to virtually zero.

So, I think if you reversed AP/XI7, you'd have to also errata the defensive retrofit off of the MC30 and adjust its price down to compensate. Between the two options, I think a dubious reinterpretation of a rules interaction is the lesser of two evils. Unfortunately.

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5 minutes ago, MandalorianMoose said:

I accidentally typed my responses within your quote, and I’m on mobile so it’s easier to just bold the responses rather than try to reformat it

That was Josiah @JJs Juggernaut who won Worlds with Y-wings.

Justin @Brikhause is the long-forgotten second-place who brought Rieekan AceHoles GH/Yavaris/3*GR75 in 2016 before it was cool.

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7 minutes ago, Ardaedhel said:

That was Josiah @JJs Juggernaut who won Worlds with Y-wings.

Justin @Brikhause is the long-forgotten second-place who brought Rieekan AceHoles GH/Yavaris/3*GR75 in 2016 before it was cool.

I knew it was JJ, I just thought his name was Justin as well my bad lol.

And I remember watching that match and seeing that GH fly speed Three straight into that bomber cloud... the result was not pretty

Edited by MandalorianMoose

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Just wanted to say Han Solo is not too expensive.

Not when Rebels have Yavaris, Adar Talon and Torryn Farr.

He can throw 8 blue/8 black with 4 blue rereollls at squadrons, or 4 blue/4black at a ship with 4 blue rerolls before anyone can do anything about it.

Han Solo gets cheaper and he will become as over represented as Yavaris.

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4 hours ago, TheEasternKing said:

Just wanted to say Han Solo is not too expensive.

Not when Rebels have Yavaris, Adar Talon and Torryn Farr.

He can throw 8 blue/8 black with 4 blue rereollls at squadrons, or 4 blue/4black at a ship with 4 blue rerolls before anyone can do anything about it.

Han Solo gets cheaper and he will become as over represented as Yavaris.

To be fair, you're also paying 26+10+7+5=47 points for that, using Yavaris' officer slot for Adar (generally a bad place for him), you can only do it once every two turns, the target gets a token refresh in the middle of it, those aren't bomber dice, and any other squadron gets a chance to interfere since you're counting his squadron-phase action in there.

Edit: Five thousand posts!  Not sure whether I should be proud or ashamed...

Edited by Ardaedhel

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7 hours ago, Ardaedhel said:

To be fair, you're also paying 26+10+7+5=47 points for that, using Yavaris' officer slot for Adar (generally a bad place for him), you can only do it once every two turns, the target gets a token refresh in the middle of it, those aren't bomber dice, and any other squadron gets a chance to interfere since you're counting his squadron-phase action in there.

Edit: Five thousand posts!  Not sure whether I should be proud or ashamed...

 

Not saying it is cheap, Adar and Torryn are pretty ubiquitous in fleets with Yavaris though.  I was just pointing out that people cannot overlook combinations and the impact they would/could have.

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On 11/21/2017 at 5:35 AM, Church14 said:

Wow. How about no. Just to cover the worst suggestions in the OP’s list:

...

-The Interdictor does not need a points decrease. Players need to spend the time learning how to use it. The complaints are always about its combat abilities when the ship is meant to leverage the experimental upgrades. See Nose Punch. See my comments about strapping High Capacity Ion Turbines to it. -10 points for that title means I will NEVER run an Imperial fleet without that. 

...

At least in my area the complaint is all about its cost, as it is so expensive that it end up being forced to be the "flagship" due to not being able to afford a second large ship and/or fighters. If it was not for the cost it would be used as the stats are OK, but not for the cost as you are paying at least in our thought to steep a premium for the ability to use the experimental upgrades.

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4 hours ago, TheEasternKing said:

 

Not saying it is cheap, Adar and Torryn are pretty ubiquitous in fleets with Yavaris though.  I was just pointing out that people cannot overlook combinations and the impact they would/could have.

Not to mention using that combo means you completely negate Han's ability.

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16 hours ago, Ardaedhel said:

So, this was my "trigger warning" issue for a really long time, but I've come around to accepting the reasoning. I still agree that, as written, AP should trump XI7, but it definitely needed to be done to balance the MC30 (maybe some other things too, but I don't care about those things ;)  ).

A very big part of the MC30's balance is the threat of getting one-shotted on approach to its hardest counters, ISD2's and Ackbar MC80's with XI7's. If it took another 2 damage to do so, the likelihood of that happening drops from roughly 50/50 (depending on the precise factors involved) to virtually zero.

So, I think if you reversed AP/XI7, you'd have to also errata the defensive retrofit off of the MC30 and adjust its price down to compensate. Between the two options, I think a dubious reinterpretation of a rules interaction is the lesser of two evils. Unfortunately.

So your saying you would put AP on every MC30 you have? Great no more RBD on them shrimp!

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44 minutes ago, TallGiraffe said:

Not to mention using that combo means you completely negate Han's ability.

No you do not negate his ability.

He gets activated by Yavaris/Adar shoots twice, then he activates himself with Rogue, then at the start of the next round he goes first before anyone else, shooting 4 times before anyone can do anything about it.

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Responses in bold.

On 11/21/2017 at 5:52 AM, RikkiP said:

Well we wait on the wave and FAQ these are a few changes I would not mind seeing along in the FAQ. Any other suggestions are welcome.

Some here are a lot easier than others and should be included such as the upgrades for sure and the flotilla rule change would be very interesting.

 

Commanders

Leia Organa – Cost too high.

Not for the faction she is in, she's a buff for Rebel MSU not Mon Cal juggernauts(who want to use tokens most of the time anyway). Rebel smalls are priced less than imperial counterparts so she has to be a bit more to compensate.

Commander Sato – increase distance to 2 of a squadron just to make him a little more useful.

This makes him fantastic but horribly undercosted. Sato's problem is evades not his ability.

Garm Bel Iblis – Gain tokens on first, third and fifth (Still probably useless)

Garm is fine.

Grand Moff Tarkin – Cost too high

Yup. Too bad FFG doesn't make buff errata(Syck doesn't count, that ship was actually broken)

 

Titles

Gladiator: Demolisher – During your activation, you must perform one of your attacks after you execute a manoeuvre.

I get that you hate Demolisher but it's already been nerfed and isn't the wave 1-3 terror it once was. It's fine, Demo costs 80-90pts and isn't that hard to kill(unlike Admonition....) that's almost 1/4 of your way to victory. Flotillas make great blockers against Demo, red dice ships chew him up(unlike Admonition...).

MKII: Paragon – While attacking a ship you have already attacked this round by this ship or another, add 1 black die to your attack pool.

A good buff, but would need a cost increase as the AFMII can take Gunnery teams making this title arguably better than Defiance in raw ability on a cheaper platform. And would be gross with Sato+Ord experts, long range Glads? Yes please.

Interdictor: Interdictor – Stays the same but costed at -10 instead of 3

Interdictors are overcosted, I don't think this is the fix though, I think the fix is releasing a cheap Immobilizer 418 and forgetting that the Cruiser exists.

 

Upgrades

Quad Laser Turrets – While defending at close range, if the attacker is a squadron, you have counter 1

Why not just delete Rhymer from the game instead? This only affects him and considering he's not really worth the points anymore...

Cluster Bombs – After a squadron performs an attack against you, discard to roll 4 blue. That squadron and all others at distance 1 take damage equal to the number of hit icons.

Goodbye Sloane ties, we hardly knew ye.

 

Squadrons

Darth Vader – Lose Escort, Gain Grit or Rogue

Grit, yes. Rogue, lol no.

Hera – Increase to 3 other squadrons gain rogue.

Hera is OK, not great, but ok. Hera + E-Wings + Lady Farr=Fun.

 

Rule Changes

One Player Defeated: At the end of a game round, all of one player’s ships are destroyed excluding flotillas. The player with at least one ship remaining excluding Flotillas earns a win and the opposing player receives a loss

Maybe, without lifeboats anymore though I don't think they are that big of an issue anymore.

 

Game is pretty great right now, I would dare say even a golden age. All we really need is for FFG to remember that Armada exists and makes money for them once in a while and for Flotillas to be excluded from being objective ships so we can see a Red obj other than most wanted.

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