Ruthless Strategist Spam

[IronNerd 537]

An idea I've been toying around with lately to see how it might work. Instead of trying to avoid the squadron game or win by squadron superiority, why not just take as much point-efficient squadron hull as possible and let Ruthless Strategists do the work for you? Here's the fleet:

Quasar 2 - Motti, Kallus, Ruthless Strategists, Boosted Comms

2 x Glad 2 - Ruthless Strategists, APTs

Gozanti - Admiral Titus, BCC, Boosted Comms

Rhymer

Mauler Mithel

Jumpmaster

9 x TIE Bombers

The idea is pretty straightforward. I've got a red (plus Kallus) plus 2 ships with 2 blues, all with Ruthless Strategists. The TIE Bombers have a combined 45 hull. The idea being to nickle and dime any opposing squadrons down. Glads are perfectly capable brawlers if needed. Has trouble keeping everything activated all the time, but Rhymer does help with creating zones of death. Haven't played it yet, but I'm getting excited to try it. Thoughts?

[Drasnighta 26,833]

In this sort of buildup, Intel + Rhymer are...  Kind of irrelevent.

Make them more TIE Bombers.

 

Your initial squadron engagement is to go straight for their squadrons.  Have your Black Die anti-squadron 75%'s go to work to do the initial damage.  Then trade up Damage with Ruthless Strats and anti-Squadron fire.

Even better, abuse the fact the Quasar-II has double gunnery by using Double-Gunnery. Slap Flight Controllers on there, and now you've got a bunch of TIE bombers throwing Blue-Black on their engagement.

 

Once the enemy is dead, you really don't need Rhymer or Intel.  As the board is yours.  TIE Bombers reposition quick enough with Speed 4.

[The Jabbawookie 5,613]

In the interest of more auto-damage... Boba? Or even Soontir?

...Also, this is terrifying.

[Coldhands 418]

I'd mention Valen Rudor. He sort of removes heavy from bombers.

[ManInTheBox 618]

I like the concept. I've been sketching something similar using the squall title plus YV-666s for their obscene hull.

I could never get the list to balance properly terms of squad damage Vs ship damage, and the potentially wasted investment if the enemy is squadless. It turns out that TIE Bombers are probably just way better at the job.

[ManInTheBox 618]

I've had a play with this concept and this is my current refinement of the list to my tastes.

The Gozanti has Tua/ECM because the force multiplier of BCC is worth protecting and it will need to be near the fight for BCC to work.

I initially had Mauler, like you, but @Coldhands suggestion of Valen seems to make more sense with all those bombers and without Intel to reposition Mauler.

Added Demo title because it's just too good to miss. I've not tried fit a bid as I think this list works just fine as first or second. You cold also fit insidious in there if you weren't bothered about a bid at all.

I'm tweaking to see if I can fit Jonus in there too, as a perfect companion for Demo. It probably reduces the overall number of bombers though, or I drop Valen.

 

QGGGz Ruthless Bombers (397/400)
===============================
Quasar Fire II-class Cruiser-Carrier (61 + 41)
    + Admiral Motti (24)
    + Agent Kallus (3)
    + Ruthless Strategists (4)
    + Flight Controllers (6)
    + Boosted Comms (4)
Gladiator II-class Star Destroyer (62 + 19)
    + Ruthless Strategists (4)
    + Assault Proton Torpedoes (5)
    + Demolisher (10)
Gladiator II-class Star Destroyer (62 + 9)
    + Ruthless Strategists (4)
    + Assault Proton Torpedoes (5)
Gozanti-class Cruisers (23 + 17)
    + Minister Tua (2)
    + Bomber Command Center (8)
    + Electronic Countermeasures (7)
Valen Rudor (13)
10 x Tie Bomber Squadron (9)
Fighter Ambush
Superior Positions
Precision Strike

Edited November 21, 2017 by ManInTheBox

[Coldhands 418]

Youll see the test results, but for the future:

Flight controllers wont be too usefull for the bombers. Best you can get is 2 damage, what is highly likely to be scattered or braced to One. So, 1 damage Will be your best friend, making braces useless, and losing Just 1 dmg on scatter. This makes your second weapons team slot unnecessary, allowing you to downgrade the ship. Red die is inconsistent, and you dont have overlapping zones to overheat defens tokens. Tua Will be an overkill. These Points could go into a 5th activation, another gozanti(so you dont have to push squads with glads). Boosted comms can keep your bcc in safe range. And a final thought: Kallus on demolisher can be used twice on the same aces. Shoot them, move, shoot the same squads from a different hullzone. These are Just Ideas, there is a lot room for this in your Fleet, try them and see what works for you.

[Coldhands 418]

Youll see the test results, but for the future:

Flight controllers wont be too usefull for the bombers. Best you can get is 2 damage, what is highly likely to be scattered or braced to One. So, 1 damage Will be your best friend, making braces useless, and losing Just 1 dmg on scatter. This makes your second weapons team slot unnecessary, allowing you to downgrade the ship. Red die is inconsistent, and you dont have overlapping zones to overheat defens tokens. Tua Will be an overkill. These Points could go into a 5th activation, another gozanti(so you dont have to push squads with glads). Boosted comms can keep your bcc in safe range. And a final thought: Kallus on demolisher can be used twice on the same aces. Shoot them, move, shoot the same squads from a different hullzone. These are Just Ideas, there is a lot room for this in your Fleet, try them and see what works for you.

[ManInTheBox 618]

For me, the Quasar 2 is for the extra range for the red die for Ruthless Strategist.

Flight controllers I could take or leave. I'm trying to fit both Valen and Jonus in there without reducing the number of vanilla bombers so maybe I could help find the points there.

I know that Tua is overkill, but I really don't want to lose an activation too easily and definitely don't want to lose BCC to a lucky long range (or DCaps) shot. It makes a harder choice for the opponent to prioritise targets. I'm not too worried about a 5th activation, but appreciate that tastes will vary.

Kallus on Demo didn't occur to me. I like it!

Edited November 21, 2017 by ManInTheBox

[Tayloraj100 422]

Don’t External Racks work against squadrons? Maybe replace APTs with those. The sooner you clear out the enemy squads the sooner your bombers can get to work.

[Ritalbringer 183]

5 hours ago, Tayloraj100 said:

Don’t External Racks work against squadrons?

They do

[ManInTheBox 618]

 

2 hours ago, Ritalbringer said:

They do

It does reduce their threat as brawlers, though. There's a definite trade off.

[Ritalbringer 183]

25 minutes ago, ManInTheBox said:

 

It does reduce their threat as brawlers, though. There's a definite trade off.

Didn't say it was a good idea

[Tayloraj100 422]

2 hours ago, Ritalbringer said:

Didn't say it was a good idea

Indeed! Though I will point out that they can be used against ships, too, if need be.

 

[Tayloraj100 422]

6 hours ago, ManInTheBox said:

 

It does reduce their threat as brawlers, though. There's a definite trade off.

My thought was that if Kallus is on Demo, then you can fire 2 blues + 1 black for one shot, then move in close and use External Racks from another arc for 2 blue + 3 black. With Ruthless Strategists doing 1 damage for each of those shots... I dunno what that all averages out at, but it felt like it ought to be a lot for one activation. And the sooner the enemy squads are gone, the sooner those bombers can hit targets. Once they are in the fight, Demo doesn’t need to do all the heavy lifting.

[ManInTheBox 618]

4 minutes ago, Tayloraj100 said:

My thought was that if Kallus is on Demo, then you can fire 2 blues + 1 black for one shot, then move in close and use External Racks from another arc for 2 blue + 3 black. With Ruthless Strategists doing 1 damage for each of those shots... I dunno what that all averages out at, but it felt like it ought to be a lot for one activation. And the sooner the enemy squads are gone, the sooner those bombers can hit targets. Once they are in the fight, Demo doesn’t need to do all the heavy lifting.

It's a fair point. I'll have to see how it plays out on the table. With no intel, perhaps it's better to just throw everything into shutting down the squadron game completely and then the bomber minefield becomes deadly.

It makes me a little nervous to reduce ship to ship damage but in the absence of Ordnance Experts or Screed, maybe External Racks with Jonus for the accuracy is a better choice.

Here's my current working version of the list (Kallus is still on the Quasar as I'd like to playtest it to evaluate where best to put him).

QGGGz Ruthless Bombers (400/400)
===============================
Quasar Fire II-class Cruiser-Carrier (61 + 37)
    + Admiral Motti (24)
    + Agent Kallus (3)
    + Ruthless Strategists (4)
    + Boosted Comms (4)
    + Pursuant (2)
Gladiator II-class Star Destroyer (62 + 19)
    + Ruthless Strategists (4)
    + Assault Proton Torpedoes (5)
    + Demolisher (10)
Gladiator II-class Star Destroyer (62 + 9)
    + Ruthless Strategists (4)
    + Assault Proton Torpedoes (5)
Gozanti-class Cruisers (23 + 17)
    + Minister Tua (2)
    + Bomber Command Center (8)
    + Electronic Countermeasures (7)
Captain Jonus (16)
Valen Rudor (13)
9 x Tie Bomber Squadron (9)
Fighter Ambush
Precision Strike
Superior Positions

[IronNerd 537]

I've run my version twice now and am running 2-0.  I did swap APTs for External Racks and added Squall to the Quasar, which I'm really liking. Need to run it up against something really tanky to see if it puts through enough damage. The last game with it was against 3 Motti VSDs and it was a nerve wracking slog-fest, I didn't win until the VERY end... I only had a single bomber left, needed two damage, and got it. It's coming down to a version of this or a 2 ISD + 3 Gozanti build for me this season, I think.

[ManInTheBox 618]

That's great to hear your experiences, especially with external racks.

What's the final makeup of the list that you've been testing? Were either of your matches against squad heavy lists? 

Edited November 29, 2017 by ManInTheBox

[Tayloraj100 422]

Yeah, how well is the ruthless strategy working for you in the squad game, and are the bombers having enough turns free to prove useful?

[IronNerd 537]

The final build I've played is this:

Quasar 2 - Motti, Kallus, Ruthless Strategists, Boosted Comms, Squall

2 x Glad 2 - Ruthless Strategists, External Racks

Gozanti - Admiral Titus, BCC, Boosted Comms

Rhymer

Mauler Mithel

Jumpmaster

9 x TIE Bombers

I faced a Rebel heavy squadron list with (by memory) Jan, Biggs, 3 X-Wings, 3 Y-Wings, 1 YT-1300 and a much smaller compliment in Ciena, Valen, Whisper, and a Lambda. The only thing that's given me any trouble at all was Whisper, honestly. Against the larger ball, he split a few squadrons out to try and spread out his net. I focused fire on one group and used Intel on the other. I'm finding that the Jumpmaster/Rhymer combo is 100% necessary in giving my Bombers the ability to do damage early. Honestly, this list is fantastic with one exception... the Quasar is just SO FRAGILE. I've lost it in both matches, but it was late enough that the damage had already been done.

[ManInTheBox 618]

Thanks for the info. I'm really looking forward to getting my version on the table. Were you first or second player in those games?

How has Ruthless Strategists been performing? And did you have any bid?

Edited November 29, 2017 by ManInTheBox

[IronNerd 537]

The list comes out to 398 points, so not much of a bid. I went second and played Contested Outpost in both games so far. While the points haven't helped me a ton, dictating where the engagement happens has been invaluable.

I am absolutely loving Ruthless Strategists, especially against aces. Between Mauler and RS, I can gun down even scatter aces in no time. Squall and the Jumpmaster make Mauler so much better as well, I can usually get at least two really good drops with him.

[The Jabbawookie 5,613]

9 hours ago, IronNerd said:

Honestly, this list is fantastic with one exception... the Quasar is just SO FRAGILE.

Racked my brain and realized if you cut Titus and downgrade Rhymer to a normal bomber, you can add Tua and a def retrofit of your choice.  If it's RBD, you could even keep Titus.  The con being Kallus has to change seats.

Edited November 30, 2017 by The Jabbawookie

[Tayloraj100 422]

18 hours ago, The Jabbawookie said:

Racked my brain and realized if you cut Titus and downgrade Rhymer to a normal bomber, you can add Tua and a def retrofit of your choice.  If it's RBD, you could even keep Titus.  The con being Kallus has to change seats.

Maybe an alternative would be to find a way to add Suppressor to the Goz (or change BCC for Slicer Tools, but I don’t think you’d want to). Then try to keep the Goz between the Quasar and the nearest threatening ship. Mostly as a deterrant, ready to block and mess with anyone after your carrier.

 

Though it sounds like the list is doing well even when you lose the Quasar, so maybe don’t break it trying to fix it?

[IronNerd 537]

3 minutes ago, Tayloraj100 said:

Maybe an alternative would be to find a way to add Suppressor to the Goz (or change BCC for Slicer Tools, but I don’t think you’d want to). Then try to keep the Goz between the Quasar and the nearest threatening ship. Mostly as a deterrant, ready to block and mess with anyone after your carrier.

 

Though it sounds like the list is doing well even when you lose the Quasar, so maybe don’t break it trying to fix it?

The typical setup is either the Gozanti or a Glad plopped down first, then deploy delay with as many squadrons as necessary. Then it ends up being Quasar in the middle flanked by Glads and (ideally) having the Gozanti also on the side of the biggest threat. Not only does that help the Quasar stay alive, but it tends to help set up shots for the Glads as ships try to sneak by to get at the squishy Quasar. It's not flawless, but it's worked so far.

Big test will be tonight. I'm facing my nemesis, as we (in my opinion) are the best players in the area. I believe he's bringing a nasty Sloane build...