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FAQ 1.9 Released

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Funny fact :  They Think for a long time before doing those nerf...

Then they still just kills 2 heroes in the sake of ... What ? A better Meta ? (In a co op game ?) A CO - OP Game ! It's pointless... Useless... Ridiculous...

And what ? I should be thankful coz we're gonna get a Cycle 8 ? Full POO ! that's what it is...

They killed hama for Hama (coz he's waaay too strong ? really ?) and hypothetical cards that could come...

...Hmmm But... We already have those powerfull cards you know ??? (Oath of Eorl / Hour of wrath / wait no longer) ! And i never saw any hama deck Abusing those to the point where it was bad for this game !

AND LET'S BE REALISTIC... Lotr the card game is a CO OP game ! In wich players are mainly playing it, Alone, or with very good friends ! So if something is Boring, or not fun coz too good for their playstyle... They just don't play it !

There's no need to kill heroes in public place just coz 10 guys complained about combos or 2 guys made youtube vidéos where they break and destroy some quests...

That's a point Sir Caleb should work on... His game is good, just let the players have fun ! It's not a **** competitive game ! There are no competition anywhere nor tournament where players are massively meeting and fighting against your quest, getting a reward at the end of the day coz they made the best score on some quests of yours !

Just relax Grace ! fart a good one, deep breathe and let people have fun ! just let those harder quest players have some fun with boromir and caldara on those big nightmares ! there's nothing bad in that ! We are not in Star Wars Bloody Destiny ! There's no Meta except the one in your imaginary head !

And if you ever decide to errate some cards, at least don't say you took some long time to do or think about doing it...

Coz if those exemples here are those you thought a long time about... I don't want to see what you can do when it's done in a rush or without "reflexion..." Those could be so Cra... wait for it... pendary !

The only thing you manage to do here, is losing players (4 around my community) wich where big fans of the game and brought absolutely everything even those nightmare quests and FellowKits...

Sir... You own those players a minimum of consideration, and your bad works on some erratas (especially those 3 heroes) are just so poor with so poor and late thinking that it's nothing but an insult to those players that are also making you a minimum of living.

That's my last message, i'm actually selling this game on ebay too. i'm deeeeeeeply Tired about ffg horsepooing everywhere.

After Destiny wich is the worst balanced and full of erratas after only less than year game... This...

LOTR LCG was my favorite solo-coop card game, for the mechanics, the universe, the replayability... Then you just make it worst in a simple bloodbath.

Seriously Goodbye FFG...

There are plenty of games out there with much better designers that are not making useless changes where it's not even needed.

And i defenatly hope that you will, someday learn to just read what people are telling you, that would be a great start for your community. You would look like that guy that actually cares about his players and not just a 16 years old kid that saw 4 videos on youtube in wich his little baby quests that he created, are getting powned by 3 combos decks wich is not even a threat to this game or for the fun players have playing it and deceide in a puberty crisis to just make an exemple in public...

Caleb... Joffrey Lannister... Same fight... They're juste killed Sean Bean and his friends coz they can !

So... Who's Next my Grace ?

Coz now i'm just looking my heroes and i'm just waiting for the next ones to be sacrificed on the wall of the useless changes.


I'm done with this.

LIke Roger said "I'm too old for this..."

Take care readers.

And don't forget to vote for the best deck of the entire multiverse ! He needs it ! For the sake of the "Meta"

http://ringsdb.com/decklist/view/6882/song-of-caleb-1.0

Edited by Aorakis

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Nerfing the "We Are Not Idle"  ('Heroes, instead of characters) the way FFG did it is too harsh.  If the concern was  too much resources generated when you exhaust dwarf characters, then perhaps a hard limit on the number of resources to be gained (say equal to number of your Dwarf heroes) could have been imposed.  So, instead of gaining resources equal to dwarf heroes you exhaust, you still gain resources equal to the number of dwarf characters exhausted, up to number of dwarf heroes you control (which is max 3).

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15 hours ago, JYoder said:

Promise?

 

Not with this topic no, with this game and ffg games in general ! I'm gonna spend my money where developpers are actually competant and cares for real about their community, where they're not just errating cards for personnal vendetta against some youtube vidéo where they saw their quest beated by 4 decks in the all game...

That guy wich i'm not going to say his name anymore, don't even play his game except on some promo "covenant" videos full of mistakes.

he should do like me, and forget about his game ! Then join the magic the gathering designers, there he could create tons of cards and nerf them for better reasons than what he did in this co-op game where the need was close to ZERO...

Enjoy your weekend, and thanks again grace the Almighty, for the outsanding full of brain reflexion works you made here ! Hope you're gonna live a long Numenorean life so we get even more of those erratas ! Can't wait for the next ones !

Edited by Aorakis

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I have been thinking about the errata for a few days.  At first I was shocked and dismayed.  I don't like per game abilities.  Having a blank text box is about my least favorite think to have happen to a character.  I give tactics Eowyn a pass because having 4 willpower in that sphere is almost an ability itself.  Lore Aragorn however, I never use even though you could drop your threat by double digits.  But as I thought about it, I realized the thing that actually bugs me about the errata isn't that it ruined Hama and Caldara, but that it didn't really effect them in the way it was supposed to.  Caldar hasn't been slowed at all from up ending the game balance on turn 2 with Arwyn, Irahil, and another ally Sword Thaned.  And a Hama deck can still shut down one third of the encounter deck for 4 turns, longer if you draw another thicket or a record.  Boromir is another story, but I'm cool with that.  Now I feel the errata is not that big a deal after all.

15 hours ago, Aorakis said:

That's my last message, i'm actually selling this game on ebay too. i'm deeeeeeeply Tired about ffg horsepooing everywhere.

After Destiny wich is the worst balanced and full of erratas after only less than year game... This...

LOTR LCG was my favorite solo-coop card game, for the mechanics, the universe, the replayability... Then you just make it worst in a simple bloodbath.

Seriously Goodbye FFG...

I can see how the necessity of nerfing a co-op game could be argued, but waiting the game (or at least threatening to), that is just insane.

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16 hours ago, Aorakis said:


AND LET'S BE REALISTIC... Lotr the card game is a CO OP game ! In wich players are mainly playing it, Alone, or with very good friends ! So if something is Boring, or not fun coz too good for their playstyle... They just don't play it !
 

Something = errata? Looks like you solved your own problem. 

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10 hours ago, ppsantos said:

Nerfing the "We Are Not Idle"  ('Heroes, instead of characters) the way FFG did it is too harsh.  If the concern was  too much resources generated when you exhaust dwarf characters, then perhaps a hard limit on the number of resources to be gained (say equal to number of your Dwarf heroes) could have been imposed.  So, instead of gaining resources equal to dwarf heroes you exhaust, you still gain resources equal to the number of dwarf characters exhausted, up to number of dwarf heroes you control (which is max 3).

I agree. This would have been a more agreeable 'fix', although I didn't think there was a problem in the first place.  Why now? It takes a card that has been out there for years with no apparent complaints from the community (as far as I know) and fixes a problem that didn't exist. In this case, Caleb forgets that the large population of players are not diehard serious players who want the greatest challenge (which I respect) but are those who just play to have fun. This card is fun when I play a Dwarf deck. Now, no more. 

Edited by Chrysagon

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May be it's time for some to learn how to play without broken cards ? :) And don't cry too much there is still Glorfindel 2.

With the nerf Caldara is less powerfull but way more roleplay (she can't die multiple times).

I'm not a fan of Hama, I always found the card not roleplay but it's still playlable.

I am more disappointed by Not idle nerf.

Edited by RegisF

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We Are Not Idle is still a 0 cost draw 1 card, so it's still really good. The ability to exhaust up to 3 Dwarf heroes for a resource each is just icing on the cake. Lure of Moria and Strength of Arms made the old We Are Not Idle too good, I agree with the nerf.

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1 hour ago, Bunston said:

We Are Not Idle is still a 0 cost draw 1 card, so it's still really good. The ability to exhaust up to 3 Dwarf heroes for a resource each is just icing on the cake. Lure of Moria and Strength of Arms made the old We Are Not Idle too good, I agree with the nerf.

Yeah you are right. It's still à good card.

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1 hour ago, PocketWraith said:

That's about my feeling too. I wonder if the Caldara problem could have been resolved by reversing the Imrahil ruling.

With Hama, I think I'd prefer removing the tactics events from the game after they recurred

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Re Hama I feel that there could have been a less heavy handed way to solve the problem.  I thought of the "exile" the event method too.  Maybe the "put the event on the bottom of the event deck" method like the scrolls/maps do would be best.  Anyway, I agree that there should have been a better way, but I know there are things I don't know.

Caldara... she was an archetype for years.  I have a hunch Caleb looked ahead and felt that she was closing of the development space.

The timing is strange to me.  Almost as if the designer(s) felt that they needed to put out SOMETHING even though ANA was sitting on their hands.  Cirith Gurat is past 10 months now.  A new record.  Yay?  I mean, it looks like we are soon to get a NON-UNIQUE Quickbeam hero, which would probably warrant errata.  Why not wait for that?  Caleb said he was going to clarify the Vilya for X cost issue... nope.

Anyway, I abused Boromir for years, but I accept that it was time to move on.  (In my defense I never used Fire or Blood... They were just gilding the lily.)

 

P.S.  Erestor To The Sea is insane.

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On 11/15/2017 at 2:54 PM, 13nrv said:

So when a new NM is released, i like to play it with my Caldara deck and have a good time. So new challenge for you but bad news for me.

 

On 11/15/2017 at 3:23 PM, 13nrv said:

Caldara can answer to many challenge ... But the answer is always complicated and need some reflexion. Each game is intensive.

You know my Fast Outland deck, i don't play it anymore ... Brainless ... Draw/Ressource/Put ally/Quest/Kill Ennemies and again until win. Well as you said no challenge and so boring.

Caldara is really different from that. Each game is totally different. I need concentration on each game to choose the good option. The gameplay of Caldara need experience and skills.

For the devoted deckbuilding, i will say point of view ... I build a deck around an idea and after i play it against a quest to test it. But i never build against a scenario except specific ones (like Dol Guldur NM, Rhosgobel NM or Lonely Mountain NM).

So i don't want errata, i want new cards for new idea.

You want a reactive-style deck with Caldara that you can use against any nightmare quest? Well, it still exists: http://ringsdb.com/decklist/view/6936/caldara-2-0-1.0

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I'm noticing that the FAQ is extremely inconsistent with when the errata entries replace card text completely, only modify a part of it, or show a new addendum. Looking solely at the FAQ, it's hard to know if Out of the Wild retains its ability to add an encounter card to the victory display. Seems like it would be much better if every entry always included the full card text as it is now supposed to be.

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3 hours ago, Seastan said:

 

You want a reactive-style deck with Caldara that you can use against any nightmare quest? Well, it still exists: http://ringsdb.com/decklist/view/6936/caldara-2-0-1.0

As usual Seastan, well done but ...

Yes but :D

As i said before, i don't play devoted deck to a quest. This is why i like the old Caldara. I take my deck, sit down, pick up a random Nightmare quest and play hard for more than one hour ... and victory or defeat is never acquire.

Modify a deck for a particular quest wasn't an exercice i like. For me (no judgement for the others, i just explain what i like in the game), it's like puzzling. My old version don't need lot of side. It was just (much more) harder against some quests.

This new deck is good but for me, it's far from the gameplay, i like to play with Caldara. As you said, it's Caldara 2.0 and i dislike this new version of Caldara. And this kind of gameplay is not new for me and definitively wasn't something i like to play.

Last point, they litterally killed a gameplay, i liked so much.

I don't want errata that killed deck i like to play. 

I accept errata wich lower the power of an archetype but not killed the gamplay of the card. For example, i found errata on Boromir and We are not idle not bad.

If the developper want to give to us new gameplay, please give new cards or give errata on some powerless cards.

Again well done but i am far from acceptance phase and for me Caldara will rest in the binder because that i like with her has been killed.

Edited by 13nrv

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2 hours ago, Seastan said:

You want a reactive-style deck with Caldara that you can use against any nightmare quest? Well, it still exists: http://ringsdb.com/decklist/view/6936/caldara-2-0-1.0

I have never played a Caldara deck (as I only play the game with heroes that appear in Tolkien's lore) or in a group containing a Caldara deck. Say that, from your very nice writing in ringsdb, I understand that this new Caldara deck can beat in solo play style any nightmare quest with little change (i.e. without changing the core deck engine).

In my opinion this stresses the question of "Why the errata is necessary?" Why Caldara but not Gandalf/Elrond vilya?

Why you make an errata on Wingfoot to avoid the Eleanor/Wingfoot combo (which eliminates 1/3 of the encounter deck)? but you make an errata on Hama to avoid the Hama/thicket of spears combo (that also eliminates 1/3 of the encounter deck)? Why did they not make an errata on Eleanor (three times per game)? or why they did not an errata on thicket of spears like they did with wingfoot?

Why erratas are always to nerf but never to make more playable/enjoyable some cards like Radagast, Brook Ironfist, Horn of Gondor, Power in the Earth, Beorn's hospitallity, Radagast's cunning, Beorning beekeeper and a long list?

I believe that as designers of a cooperative game, one has a big responsibility towards the fan/players who are spending the money and enjoying the game. In a game where there are no tournaments pitting players against each other, erratas have to be taken very carefully and only if the new errata is going to contribute positively towards the players' enjoyment of the game. I feel that this time, the designers failed to accomplished  this goal with some of the errated cards, like in the case of Hama, harming the game more instead of making it more fun.

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@13nrvOr you can keep playing Caldara the same way you did until now. So you will still enjoy his gameplay and don't mind about the errata.

Since I share your view about specific deckbuilding I will try to look for a generic version of this Caldara 2.0 and I will report how strong this new deck is. So you will be able to know if you want to give it a try.

Fun fact: This deck is better than the old Caldara on Journey in the dark nightmare (because we can't bring back a hero from discard pile ^^).

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As explain on the other forum, i already know this kind of Gameplay. It works fine but not my cup of tea ;)

I have to like Yepesnopes, i agree with you.

It's complicated for me to not play with errata, but i think i will do that because these errata hurts to much. It's the second errata which killed some of my deck, i love to play. So no new challenges for me, just new cards which stay in binder.

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8 hours ago, 13nrv said:

Modify a deck for a particular quest wasn't an exercice i like. For me (no judgement for the others, i just explain what i like in the game), it's like puzzling. My old version don't need lot of side. It was just (much more) harder against some quests.

This new deck is good but for me, it's far from the gameplay, i like to play with Caldara.

The Caldara deck I posted does not need a lot of sideboard cards. It listed some to make certain quests easier, but it is entirely possible to just sit down and play the deck without modification against any scenario. Tonight I took it through Nighmare Cair Andros and Nightmare Wastes of Eriador and it beat both on the first attempt without any sideboard cards.

 

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7 hours ago, Seastan said:

The Caldara deck I posted does not need a lot of sideboard cards. It listed some to make certain quests easier, but it is entirely possible to just sit down and play the deck without modification against any scenario. Tonight I took it through Nighmare Cair Andros and Nightmare Wastes of Eriador and it beat both on the first attempt without any sideboard cards.

 

Well Seastan, yesterday i have read all your description of your deck. In this description, you write change to do depending on quest like Ethir swordsman and quest with Direct damage's treachery.

Ok, your deck works without that. So ok, i am wrong and Caldara continue to be strong ... But this feedback make me more disappointed and angry against these errata.

So developers want to nerf Caldara power but you show that it change nothing. More you beat some quest easiler than my old one. Is it really a nerf ?This errata have just killed two gameplay but change nothing on what is powerfull or not. So they killed the fun of player who love to play these gameplay. Sorry but i can't be enjoyed with that, i have all the collection. I spend a lot of money for this game and developer produce errata that killed my favourites gameplays.

So the errata show you, How can we use Caldara differently ? I would like to say that i respect you deckbuilding skills (i have watched all your videos). But the gameplay of Caldara 2.0 wasn't new for me. I have already make decks which bring quickly some heavy allies and then use Narya on it. These deck rely in heavy willpower hero too and can turtle. The idea i like in your deck is the tribes man. But for me, it's an improvement of a gameplay which already exist and Caldara isn't needed for that. I have seen other player use differently Caldara with only one other spirit hero and one from another sphere. These decks rely on only one use of Caldara on Combo Prince Imrahil. These player didn't need an errata to build differently around a hero.

So these errata bring no new gameplay, but killed an existing one ... I didn't like the gameplay of Caldara 2.0 and i like the old one. The first has been untouched by the errata and the second one have just disappear. Conclusion, my fun was killed.

I eagerly wait new release for many reason. First one, new mechanic, new idea for new deck and second one, new cards for tuning my deck i love to play.I eagerly wait for new spirit cards, for new tactic event, for new Noldor, for New dwarves etc ... And then tune my deck and play again and again Nightmares. Now i will be disappointed when a card will be released that will fit with my favourite killed decks. It kills my fun again.

 

I hate to disappoint someone. I play many event in France and Belgium and it is so bad to tell a player that his deck didn't work due to an errata. The player is frustrated and some of them didn't understand why developers do errata on a coop game.

And last point, where is the upgrade POD pack ? Because, play with non errated cards could be frustating when explaining  game to new player.

I want just to say another time that i agree with Yepesnopes.

Now, i think, it is my last post in this thread. Maybe, i represent a minority or not. And i think that developer didn't read this thread. My personnel feeling is : "Some of these errata were wrong. They don't bring fun to me but instead killed it. I can't understand that for a coop game."

After

- Horn of Gondor and many other errata that killed some fun deck (really not abused)

- Some nerfed cards definitively put into binder

- missing errata on powerless card which could bring a lot of fun

It's time to me to not follow errata like other member said.

And just to finish by : Zigil Miner + Lord of Eldar when deck is empty is quite fun :D

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It's fantastic that Seastan constructed a powerful deck with Caldara.  But it's really more of a Cirdan deck, Caldara's just the LeDenethor of spirit, giving an early boost once the real third hero, Imrahil, shows up.  The *possibility* of recurring Caldara is what defines (well, used to define) the archtype, I think.  There's 125 Caldara decks at ringsdb, and 109 of them have Fortune and Fate -- of the 16 that don't, 2 of them are the only serious Caldara decks published post-errata.  Calling the new one a Caldara deck is kind of like constructing a Gandalf/Elrond/Boffin deck where Boffin gets ditched as soon as Strider shows up, if not before, and calling it a Boffin deck.

The problem of the way errata was done to Eomer and Caldara isn't just the effect it has on existing decks, it's also that it drives behavior towards the very things that apparently prompted the errata in the first place. The limit on Caldara's ability means that she won't be used without Imrahil and/or Sword-Thain.  The limit on Hama's ability means he will only be used for really powerful events -- like Thicket of Spears.  The flexible Hama is out of existence, but the Hama who enables Thicket of Spears to be played turn after turn will still live on, since he can guarantee *at least* four plays of it with one copy, and his mono-tactics deck will have three Book of Eldacar and 2-3 Thicket of Spears.

So here we are post-errata -- Caldara used with Imrahil?  Still viable.  Caldara recurred without Imrahil/Sword-Thain?  Not viable.  Hama used with Thicket of Spears?  Still viable.  Hama used with a variety of cheap tactics events?  Not viable.

The funny thing is that I've never played with the old Hama (though I was constructing a deck with Hama in it when the errata hit).  And although I've published a Caldara fellowship that I've taken through Black Riders + Old Forest/Fog on Barrowdowns, I never actually used Caldara's ability twice.  Because I only have two copies of Fortune and Fate, and because I didn't want to add Caldara to the fallen hero list, I never used her ability at all on two quests and stalled two others until a copy showed up to revive her.  I think I'll keep her ability pre-errata for the campaign, since it was that way when I started it.  Or maybe I'll ditch her at the Council of Elrond or feed her to the Balrog.

It's sad that I can't have a spirit/tactics deck that repeatedly tosses Elven-Light to recur 0-cost tactics events.

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