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Jekzer

FAQ 1.9 Released

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https://www.fantasyflightgames.com/en/news/2017/11/15/a-map-for-your-journeys/

Let's discuss things in a separate thread.

I wanted to highlight some of the cards:

Boromir: I think he will still be played a lot. It was a logical decision to me.

Out of the Wild: the same. Trivializing the encounter deck can be fun at first (when you first see the engine working), but boring in the long term.

Háma: this one hurts. A lot.

Caldara: and this one. It means that players will need think a lot more the moment to "resurrect" her.

Let's wait what Seastan is capable to break in the future :D.

Edited by Jekzer

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Wow they finally clipped Boromir's wings.  That was long overdue.  It removes the main overpowered use of Boromir, which was to have him single-handedly take care of all the defending and attacking. 

The Hama and Caldara ones hurt.

Out of the Wild --- outside of a crazy combo deck, I think this errata makes the card a little stronger, because it now combos with Keen as Lances better (as noted in the FAQ).

 

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I like the errata on Wandering Took, Out of the Wild, and Wingfoot.  They seem rational and don't really damage the "common case".

TaBoromir is significantly less powerful now, especially since his readying is typically always in the same phase.  He's no longer sufficient assurance against multi-attack shadows.

Caldara decks just took a brutal hit.  While I'll agree Arwen/Imrahil/Sword-Thain makes her more powerful, Caldara decks were little-used (my impression) before she got that support despite the ability to recur her.  I think removing Fortune or Fate from the game when played would've been a bit friendlier, allowing multiple uses (at least with multiple core sets) but not infinite uses.

Hama's nerf hurts worse.  I can see where recurring Thicket of Spears may be a problem, but allowing Hama to use his ability (at the cost of a discard) three times all game doesn't seem very compelling to me.  *Most* tactics events just aren't that powerful IMO.  Having Thicket of Spears remove itself from the game would seem a better way to remove the corner case without affecting the common usage.

We Are Not Idle has a major impact on dwarf decks.  Not an auto-include anymore, I think.

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There are three uncontroversial rules clarifications that appear at the end of the document, but not on the 'list of changes' at the beginning of the document.  (Pretty sure they're new, but I'm not 100% sure-- either they're new, or they were in the previous FAQ, but they forgot to change the text color to black in this version)

Here they are:

Q: Can I use Proud Hunters (H 32) to add resources to Beorn’s (OHaUH 1) resource pool even though he is immune to player card effects? A: Yes. A hero’s resource pool is a separate game element from the hero card, so cards that target Beorn’s resource pool (and not Beorn) are not affected by his immunity to player card effects.

Q: Can I play Elevenses (DC 36) after resolving a quest since characters are considered to be committed to the quest until the end of the quest phase? A: No. Elevenses says “Play only after the staging step” which means it is only playable immediately after the staging step ends.

Q: Are there any player cards that allow me to attack an enemy in the staging area if it is immune to player card effects? A: No. None.

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The biggest change in the game ever. Boromir, Caldara and Hama are really damage. I think that I won't use the two last anymore.

I think that a similar change for Gandalf, changing one per phase to once per round would be as reasonable since vilya deck is one of the few toptiers deck staying untouched since the beginning of the game.

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What the point here ?

Seriously boys... it's a cooperative game... if you don't like to see Decks with Caldara, Boromir or Wingfoot + Eleanor/Merry II just don't play with the guy who brought those decks. End of story...

 

New players will not now anything about the FAQ so they will continue (and hopefully don't be disgusted of the game) to play Boromir "as it is writtent" to win the first scenarios

Old players will applied or not those rules.

 

I won't because it's pointless to "errate" old cards just for one type of decks. If I can defeat a scenario with a specific combo ! Nice for me ! But next time i'll try something else and move. If players just play regularly the same combo to win I understand, but I don't want to play with you.

 

Everything is needed to make a world ! Even stupid decision :)

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The Proud Hunters / Beorn ruling doesn't really seem intuitive to me, but I won't complain.

 

The new 1.57 reads: "A player is immediately eliminated from the game the moment his threat reaches his threat elimination level regardless of card effects in play."

Doesn't "regardless of card effects in play" technically and completely negate Favor of the Valar? I'm sure that wasn't the intent, but reads like it.

 

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Have only had a very quick look, but on balance I'm not mad at any of these changes. It might be because I don't use many (or even any) of the cards the way that they are being errata'd against, but they all seem fine. Boromir can still do some shenanigans around exhausting to fulfil card effects, but can't now dominate the combat phase without other cards to help, Caldara was a bit silly anyway, and the Out of the Wilds errata is, in my view, a big boost to the card when used normally. Hama is a bit painful, but I guess it was a way to fix it.  We are not Idle needed that fix. It's now no longer a silly card. 

Bit sad about Wingfoot. I never tried one of those silly Wingfoot exploit decks, and now I can't. Oh well. It's still a solid card.

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25 minutes ago, GrandSpleen said:

There are three uncontroversial rules clarifications that appear at the end of the document, but not on the 'list of changes' at the beginning of the document.  (Pretty sure they're new, but I'm not 100% sure-- either they're new, or they were in the previous FAQ, but they forgot to change the text color to black in this version)

I tend so say that Proud Hunter wasn't released at the time of the previous FAQ so they are new ruling ^^.

4 minutes ago, JYoder said:

The new 1.57 reads: "A player is immediately eliminated from the game the moment his threat reaches his threat elimination level regardless of card effects in play."

Doesn't "regardless of card effects in play" technically and completely negate Favor of the Valar? I'm sure that wasn't the intent, but reads like it.

This is relevant. I would say that the ruling say "you are eliminated if you reach 50 unless a player card say specifically otherwise (since player cards overules game rules). Of course we should play as Favor of the Valar still work.

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I'm sad because I was working on a Hama deck where I use his ability to toss Elven Light.  At three times per game, it's not so compelling anymore.

Really, I think the answer to "recurring X" is to remove X.  Removing Fortune and Fate when used would naturally limit Caldara.  Removing We Are Not Idle would prevent infinite resources.  Removing Thicket of Spears would prevent Hama from recurring it indefinitely.  And in all cases it wouldn't affect the normal usage.

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Just now, dalestephenson said:

I'm sad because I was working on a Hama deck where I use his ability to toss Elven Light.  At three times per game, it's not so compelling anymore.

Really, I think the answer to "recurring X" is to remove X.  Removing Fortune and Fate when used would naturally limit Caldara.  Removing We Are Not Idle would prevent infinite resources.  Removing Thicket of Spears would prevent Hama from recurring it indefinitely.  And in all cases it wouldn't affect the normal usage.

That's true. I do wonder if the drive to limit the cards in the way that they did wasn't to get them to roughly the same level of power as similar card types (so We Are Not Idle now functions like many other resource generators, and so recycling it is less bad, whereas even a single good use of the old We Are Not Idle could net 10+ resources). I think Hama is the most poorly handled, but I'm surprised that Caldara wasn't once per game in the first place. Plus ça change...some new broken combo will no doubt be discovered!

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What do I think of all this?

  • Wandering Took: Sensible.
  • Boromir: First his horn and now Boromir himself. Probably going to ignore this one, or consider "three times per phase". Boromir is fun, and I like having fun.
  • Out of the Wild: Sensible.
  • Hama: We haven't used Hama very often, and probably wouldn't abuse Thicket of Spears if we did, so I think we will just ignore this because major card changes to disallow pathological edge cases are bad.
  • We Are Not Idle: Don't really have an opinion on this. Probably a sound change
  • Caldara: We only have two copies of Fortune and Fate so it's not a big deal either way. Caldara is really strong but also really fun, so I think we will probably bounce between using and ignoring this change.
  • Wingfoot: Long overdue, not for stopping a weird edge exploit (because errata for such purposes is bad) but rather because the card is such a headache from a rules point of view and the new version is much neater while being basically the same in almost all normal situations.
  • Proud Hunters: Seems weird.
  • Elevenses: Whatever.
  • Attacking immune enemies in staging: This clarification is actually false, because there are cards that allow you to attack immune enemies in the staging area if they are considered to be engaged with you, but this is just being picky and it is welcome to have a simple rule to refer to here.
  • Immediate elimination: Fair enough. Also, Favour of the Valar creates a replacement effect for being eliminated, so isn't affected by this ruling.

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I just bought my third core set to have at least one copy of all cards as written :(

 

Also it's going to be a pain remembering how many times I've used Hama as my memory takes a hit with all the stress comming off the encounter deck.

Edited by DarthJalapeno

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We are not Idle is roughly comparable to Captains Wisdom now -- a card and 1 resource per hero versus 2 resource for a single hero.  But We Are Not Idle was a dwarf-deck staple, and Captain's Wisdom was pretty rarely used.

It's true that the top end of We Are Not Idle is very high, you could exhaust ten dwarves to get ten resources -- but let's face it, if you've got ten dwarves in your swarm and Dain on the table, you don't *need* massive resources to steamroll the quest.  That's just win more.  We Are Not Idle is most useful early, like playing an Erebor Record Keeper for 1 resource, using We Are Not Idle with it to get the resource back (and potentially on a different sphere), and playing a 2-cost dwarf to get to the magic five dwarves on turn one.  In its new form, you have to exhaust a hero in planning phase to get to five, and that's a high cost to pay early.  While limiting the top-end abusiveness, they also nerfed the early-game utility.

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47 minutes ago, GrandSpleen said:

Q: Are there any player cards that allow me to attack an enemy in the staging area if it is immune to player card effects? A: No. None.

Wasn't Quick Strike an exception? Seems it isnt...

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Last night I finished a saga campaign.  I used Hama and thicket, the other player used Caldara and all of her tricks.  Each game only lasted 7 turns so I'm not sure if we even exceeded the new limits, but I can only imagine what would of happened if we had said "let's get together Wednesday" instead of Tuesday.

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30 minutes ago, dalestephenson said:

We are not Idle is roughly comparable to Captains Wisdom now -- a card and 1 resource per hero versus 2 resource for a single hero.  But We Are Not Idle was a dwarf-deck staple, and Captain's Wisdom was pretty rarely used.

It's true that the top end of We Are Not Idle is very high, you could exhaust ten dwarves to get ten resources -- but let's face it, if you've got ten dwarves in your swarm and Dain on the table, you don't *need* massive resources to steamroll the quest.  That's just win more.  We Are Not Idle is most useful early, like playing an Erebor Record Keeper for 1 resource, using We Are Not Idle with it to get the resource back (and potentially on a different sphere), and playing a 2-cost dwarf to get to the magic five dwarves on turn one.  In its new form, you have to exhaust a hero in planning phase to get to five, and that's a high cost to pay early.  While limiting the top-end abusiveness, they also nerfed the early-game utility.

I think the key combo here was with Lure of Moria, which makes We Are Not Idle free resources past the third Dwarf. I agree with your statement that it loses early game utility now, though. I have to reevaluate it with the errata, but my gut tells me that it's usually going to end up on the cutting room floor. 

Or perhaps I'll never use it for its text except as a deck thinner. Not sure, I'll be interested to find out. 

Edited by Authraw

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I wouldn't want a limitation on Fortune and Fate as a solution to Caldara.  That is only 1 of 2 possible ressurection cards currently in the card pool.  Future cards would have to take Caldara into account and limit themselves accordingly too.  (Houses of Healing is Lore and not likely an include in a monospirit Caldara deck, although it's not impossible --- but it can could be included in a companion deck to great effect, so any limit on Fortune and Fate would also have to be applied to this and other ressurect cards)

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