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9 minutes ago, JJ48 said:

Wow.  In the games, your lasers couldn't even hit beyond 1.5.  Also in the games, the Z-95's focal point could be adjusted manually, but X-Wings had auto-focus (which sometimes got irritating if you were locked onto an enemy that was really close but then decided to take a potshot at a target further away).

First. It's been a while that I read those novels, basically more than 20 years. 
Second: Are your sure about it? Because I could have sworn that you can hit incoming TIEs in XvT at 2.5km, not a meter early. but 2.5 as max range. I might be totally wrong, I have not played intensively XvT since 20 years, so I just might mix up 1.5 and 2.5 :)
Maybe it just because I could hit at 2500m in star citizen ^_^

Edited by SEApocalypse

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4 hours ago, takfar said:

Actually, I'd love to see a Roque Squadron movie. Maybe a TV series? With all the talk of unending new stuff coming out, one can only hope it'll happen someday. 

Top Gun style movie for Rogue Squadron would be very cool.

PS: is Rogue Squadron (for X-Wings, not Snow Speeders) still canon?

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http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Rogue_Squadron

the squadron is the pilots, not the planes, as seen in Rebels, so i'd say yes, sorta. we just don't know what happened to them outside the EU.

though since we now know that "Rogue" started with Jyn, Cassian, Bhodi, et al., we might see something eventually. (anyone else note that during Hoth, you had Rogue Leader, Rogue 2, etc.. but never a Rogue One?)

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7 minutes ago, Odanan said:

Top Gun style movie for Rogue Squadron would be very cool.

PS: is Rogue Squadron (for X-Wings, not Snow Speeders) still canon?

They are in star wars battlefront, so they should be canon in X and Y wings iirc. Though nothing they did outside of empire strike back seems canon so far.

 

edit: Rogue Leader is btw Rogue One, just like Red Leader IS red one. 
 

Quote
"Red Leader standing by."
―Wedge Antilles[src]

Red Leader or Red One was the callsign attributed to the leader of Red Squadron.

 

Edited by SEApocalypse

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1 hour ago, Odanan said:

Dang, man! That hurts! You could have stopped in that Suncrusher image. Adding Emperor clones, Imperial zombies and the Vong was overkill.

BTW: what's wrong with that (corny) Soontir Fel's story? 


I always found most of the Antilles-Fel clan stories to be far too incestual, in the sense that they made the Galaxy feel suffocatingly small.  We're in a galaxy of tens of thousands of habitable planets with innumerable sentient lifeforms, and the one person Soontir Fel falls in love with just happens to be his arch nemesis' (Wedge Antilles') sister?  Even as good as the X-Wing/Wraith series of novels are taken to be, and they are rare highlights in an otherwise iffy Extended Universe, they have their cheesy moments like when Soontir's TIE Interceptor gets shot down and Wedge lands his X-Wing and the two literally have a fistfight as a dogfight rages on... ugh.  It's also an almost fetishism that exists around minor characters like Boba, Wedge, and Soontir wherein they become gods unto the universe, and to me it just feels silly.   Like, the more stories I read about Boba and Wedge and Soontir being SuperBeings, the less I find them cool and interesting because the mystery around them vanishes and their plot armor becomes heftier than Simon Pegg's Unkar Plutt costume.  Both Soontir and Boba suffer from the fate of so many villains where writers become overly attached to them and turn them into heroes, at least for awhile (e.g. Sylar from Heroes, Ben from LOST, or Kallus/Maul from our very own Rebels).  Boba, some random mercenary dude who gets punked by a blind guy and eaten by a goddamned hole in the ground goes on to become the leader of the entire Mandalorian culture.... suuuuure.  Soontir Fel, the Mary Sue of Imperial Pilots, goes on to have his descendants become the royal family of the Imperium, see: Emperor Roan Fel.  These sorts of tiny incestual relationships where the same dozen named characters do everything in the universe over the course of thirty years and intermarry and become the leaders of their respective groups just makes the world of Star Wars--which is supposed to be an entire galaxy--just feel so darn small and insignificant, and it's really depressing to see Rebels do largely the same thing by making street-urchin Sabine the Mandalore.    Which is why I think some of the best of the EU are things like "Tales from the Cantinna" or "Tales of the Bounty Hunters."  A little bit of backstory or demystification is nice, but I don't want to know everything about everyone, and I don't want every character who looks cool to be an immortal god in the world, which is sadly what so often happens within the EU.  Now, I'm not sure Disney's New Trilogy will do any better, but at least they slate is wiped clean so they have the possibility to do better.   

TL;DR: there's nothing in particular wrong with the Fel Nuptial storyline, per se, but it's a great symbol of so many problems with the EU: (1) Making the galaxy feel small, (2) Fetishizing certain Mary Sue characters, e.g. Wedge, Boba, Soontir, etc., (3) Competent Villains Become Heroes, and (4) Everyone within the small pool of recurring characters becoming the leader of their respective peoples. 

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15 hours ago, AllWingsStandyingBy said:


I always found most of the Antilles-Fel clan stories to be far too incestual, in the sense that they made the Galaxy feel suffocatingly small.  We're in a galaxy of tens of thousands of habitable planets with innumerable sentient lifeforms, and the one person Soontir Fel falls in love with just happens to be his arch nemesis' (Wedge Antilles') sister?  Even as good as the X-Wing/Wraith series of novels are taken to be, and they are rare highlights in an otherwise iffy Extended Universe, they have their cheesy moments like when Soontir's TIE Interceptor gets shot down and Wedge lands his X-Wing and the two literally have a fistfight as a dogfight rages on... ugh.  It's also an almost fetishism that exists around minor characters like Boba, Wedge, and Soontir wherein they become gods unto the universe, and to me it just feels silly.   Like, the more stories I read about Boba and Wedge and Soontir being SuperBeings, the less I find them cool and interesting because the mystery around them vanishes and their plot armor becomes heftier than Simon Pegg's Unkar Plutt costume.  Both Soontir and Boba suffer from the fate of so many villains where writers become overly attached to them and turn them into heroes, at least for awhile (e.g. Sylar from Heroes, Ben from LOST, or Kallus/Maul from our very own Rebels).  Boba, some random mercenary dude who gets punked by a blind guy and eaten by a goddamned hole in the ground goes on to become the leader of the entire Mandalorian culture.... suuuuure.  Soontir Fel, the Mary Sue of Imperial Pilots, goes on to have his descendants become the royal family of the Imperium, see: Emperor Roan Fel.  These sorts of tiny incestual relationships where the same dozen named characters do everything in the universe over the course of thirty years and intermarry and become the leaders of their respective groups just makes the world of Star Wars--which is supposed to be an entire galaxy--just feel so darn small and insignificant, and it's really depressing to see Rebels do largely the same thing by making street-urchin Sabine the Mandalore.    Which is why I think some of the best of the EU are things like "Tales from the Cantinna" or "Tales of the Bounty Hunters."  A little bit of backstory or demystification is nice, but I don't want to know everything about everyone, and I don't want every character who looks cool to be an immortal god in the world, which is sadly what so often happens within the EU.  Now, I'm not sure Disney's New Trilogy will do any better, but at least they slate is wiped clean so they have the possibility to do better.   

TL;DR: there's nothing in particular wrong with the Fel Nuptial storyline, per se, but it's a great symbol of so many problems with the EU: (1) Making the galaxy feel small, (2) Fetishizing certain Mary Sue characters, e.g. Wedge, Boba, Soontir, etc., (3) Competent Villains Become Heroes, and (4) Everyone within the small pool of recurring characters becoming the leader of their respective peoples. 

Agreed with everything, except for your faith in the new trilogy. Ep VII was bad fan fiction level and I don't see how they will savage the trilogy without even acknowledging the problems of the first episode. 

Edited by Odanan

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Just now, Odanan said:

Agreed with everything, except for your fate in the new trilogy. Ep VII was bad fan fiction level and I don't see how they will savage the trilogy without even acknowledging the problems of the first episode. 


I'm inclined to agree.  I hated Episode VII, and I say this as someone who overall appreciates the Prequels and loved Rogue One (so I'm not just opposed to "new" Star Wars).  That being said, I think some of the things I disliked about VII could be redeemed with how they answer questions in VIII, but some things will still be irredeemable (Starkiller Base, Hyperspacing through Shields, the silly pacing (e.g. Han just happens to find the Falcon right after it takes off from Jakku), how tiny and insignificant both the Resistance and First Order felt, etc.).  But a little redemption could be done, namely with how they answer things like the scope/size of the Resistance and First Order, the identity of Snoke, etc.-- but VIII would almost need to be a prequel to VII to make that work.  Am I optimistic about VIII?  No, not at all, and the trailers and vehicle/ship concepts make me cringe.   Do they make me cringe more than Suncrushers or Palp Clones or stormtrooper zombies?  Eh, I dunno, maybe it's at least the lesser of two evils.  Hehehe.  :)

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10 hours ago, AllWingsStandyingBy said:

Yet again we fail to see Star Destroyers launching anything close to 76 TIE Fighters, which further supports the view that the commonly-held 76 TIE compliment for Star Destroyers is grossly exaggerated from 'reality.'

I support the 72/76 complement, but I didn't even think really until now, that maybe that was just the maximum storage available, in addition to ground forces, modular ground bases, etc... it makes sense to me that a fully loaded ISD might accommodate said forces, but that a standard deployment would certainly run about with only a fraction of the maximum accommodation. 

Edited by stuffedskullcat
Wrong complement/compliment.

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So back OT: anyone notice that the scene setting is a bit whack?

 

Hera starts out behind the Tie Defender and takes out the wingmen. Then snap to the next scene and the Tie Defenders behind her? That didn’t make much sense.

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17 minutes ago, Xerandar said:

So back OT: anyone notice that the scene setting is a bit whack?

 

Hera starts out behind the Tie Defender and takes out the wingmen. Then snap to the next scene and the Tie Defenders behind her? That didn’t make much sense.

She did so while turning to get both TIEs, directly afterwards the defender pilot realized it her and turns in himself, slower, because Hera was coming in a lot faster and thus Hera basically overshoot the defender. That did work out fine, and makes sense because Hera was coming in as fast as she could as her goal was to save her Squadron Mates, she failed at that, but took the defenders escort at least. It gets even better because Hera knows she is coming in to fast to stay behind them and thus makes a 90° degree turn in hope that Skerris doesn't notice her in time to follow … he did anyway and thus the chase begins. 

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12 hours ago, mithril2098 said:

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Rogue_Squadron

the squadron is the pilots, not the planes, as seen in Rebels, so i'd say yes, sorta. we just don't know what happened to them outside the EU.

though since we now know that "Rogue" started with Jyn, Cassian, Bhodi, et al., we might see something eventually. (anyone else note that during Hoth, you had Rogue Leader, Rogue 2, etc.. but never a Rogue One?)

Worth pointing out that they were never referred to as Rogue Squadron on screen. Rogue Group took part in the battle of Hoth, but it seemed to borrow the pilots that were on screen referred to as Red Squadron from the previous film.

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12 hours ago, AllWingsStandyingBy said:


I always found most of the Antilles-Fel clan stories to be far too incestual, in the sense that they made the Galaxy feel suffocatingly small.  We're in a galaxy of tens of thousands of habitable planets with innumerable sentient lifeforms, and the one person Soontir Fel falls in love with just happens to be his arch nemesis' (Wedge Antilles') sister?  Even as good as the X-Wing/Wraith series of novels are taken to be, and they are rare highlights in an otherwise iffy Extended Universe, they have their cheesy moments like when Soontir's TIE Interceptor gets shot down and Wedge lands his X-Wing and the two literally have a fistfight as a dogfight rages on... ugh.  It's also an almost fetishism that exists around minor characters like Boba, Wedge, and Soontir wherein they become gods unto the universe, and to me it just feels silly.   Like, the more stories I read about Boba and Wedge and Soontir being SuperBeings, the less I find them cool and interesting because the mystery around them vanishes and their plot armor becomes heftier than Simon Pegg's Unkar Plutt costume.  Both Soontir and Boba suffer from the fate of so many villains where writers become overly attached to them and turn them into heroes, at least for awhile (e.g. Sylar from Heroes, Ben from LOST, or Kallus/Maul from our very own Rebels).  Boba, some random mercenary dude who gets punked by a blind guy and eaten by a goddamned hole in the ground goes on to become the leader of the entire Mandalorian culture.... suuuuure.  Soontir Fel, the Mary Sue of Imperial Pilots, goes on to have his descendants become the royal family of the Imperium, see: Emperor Roan Fel.  These sorts of tiny incestual relationships where the same dozen named characters do everything in the universe over the course of thirty years and intermarry and become the leaders of their respective groups just makes the world of Star Wars--which is supposed to be an entire galaxy--just feel so darn small and insignificant, and it's really depressing to see Rebels do largely the same thing by making street-urchin Sabine the Mandalore.    Which is why I think some of the best of the EU are things like "Tales from the Cantinna" or "Tales of the Bounty Hunters."  A little bit of backstory or demystification is nice, but I don't want to know everything about everyone, and I don't want every character who looks cool to be an immortal god in the world, which is sadly what so often happens within the EU.  Now, I'm not sure Disney's New Trilogy will do any better, but at least they slate is wiped clean so they have the possibility to do better.   

TL;DR: there's nothing in particular wrong with the Fel Nuptial storyline, per se, but it's a great symbol of so many problems with the EU: (1) Making the galaxy feel small, (2) Fetishizing certain Mary Sue characters, e.g. Wedge, Boba, Soontir, etc., (3) Competent Villains Become Heroes, and (4) Everyone within the small pool of recurring characters becoming the leader of their respective peoples. 

You mean like Luke, Han, Leia, or every protagonist in every Star Wars story ever?

In the OP we see a rebel ace shooting down two ties at the same time!

I love star wars like anyone else, but they're not exactly good movies or literature...

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5 hours ago, SEApocalypse said:

I had the opportunity to actually make a screenshot and count. You are close, they are 36 fighters. 3 squadrons or half a wing. 

I tried to count but this far out from the Galactic Center, my only way of getting the transmission is to patch through some privateer network. The quality of the feed was not the best :D I'm glad I was close tho.

 

12 X-s and Y-s vs 36 TIEs, named pilots and unique astromechs on the rebel side is gonna be a roughly equal battle still.

But let's give the benefit to the Imperials, and say that the rebels were damaged in the previous encounter.

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21 hours ago, Zeoinx said:

I personally dont count anyone who grew up as Disney Starwars Cannon worshipers fans. They didnt MAKE the fandom what it was, they didnt help shape the universe, for GOOD OR BAD..... the original EU will live on through the Fans who made it what it was before some company with a lot of money decided to throw it out the window cause they were to lazy to design something to add to what existed and make it all that much better. They broke tradition, they didnt add, they destroyed first.....

What a load of arrogant codswallop.

Maybe Disney owning really IS the best thing, because if this attitude is what makes you a “fan” then, frankly, I will take the new Disney stuff (which both my 40 year old self and my 4 year old son loves) and all that comes.   

Any joy I got from the old EU, and indeed, I had much, is eclipsed a hundred fold by the joy of seeing my son enjoy all these new stories Disney is providing.  

Finally, the new canon has provided what I consider the BEST Star Wars story ever written; Lost Stars.

Edited by That Blasted Samophlange

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5 hours ago, ImperialPropaganda said:

You mean like Luke, Han, Leia, or every protagonist in every Star Wars story ever?


Well, in the EU yes, it becomes ridiculous that those main characters (and a few minor ones) basically do everything of note in the Galaxy over the course of 30 years, with the heaviest, tankiest of plot armors.  That's my exact critique of that aspect of the EU.  But I wouldn't say that it applies nearly as harshly to Original Trilogy movies:

I would contend that it's not even remotely as bad in the OT movies. Take a character like Luke, for instance.  Over the course of the entire trilogy of movies, he only fights in two battles of the Galactic Civil War.  At Yavin, he shoots down one TIE and then needs to be saved by Wedge, and blows up the Death Star as allies behind him sacrifice themselves for him.  At Hoth, he pretty immediately gets shot down and gets his Gunner killed.  In Palpatine's throne room, he bests his father but then gets wrecked by the Emperor, and his victory is more a moral and spiritual victory (taking a chance on trusting his father) rather than one of prowess or Force Mastery.  Even in escaping the first Death Star, Luke only survives because Vader and Tarkin have orchestrated a plan to let the Rebels escape so they can be tracked to their base.   Is Luke a hero and does he have plot armor?  Of course, but his warrior-prowess is far from godlike and his list of feats aren't really that long, especially given that the movies span several years of in-world time.

Compare that to the EU, where our small list of characters find themselves engaging upon hundreds of adventures, often raising the stakes and scopes of their heroics.  It's one thing if Wedge survives three battles in the OT (though effectively gets 'shot down' in the Battle of Yavin).  His entire trilogy career is pretty much made a mockery of in an eight second clip from TFA where Poe kills a dozen TIEs and some stormtroopers -- that's god-like nonsense (and part of the reason I think TFA was terrible).  But in the EU, we now have a Wedge dominating hundreds of dogfights and even doing ridiculous battle-winning, moon-skimming K-Turns while flying things like Correllian Corvettes.  I'm not positive, but I think one of Wedge's schticks is that he never gets shot down.  It's one thing that have a character like Wedge who racks up an impressive, let's say, 15-0 kill count in the Original Trilogy over the course of three battles.  Historic pilots in the real world have done better than that.  But the Wedge of the EU probably has close to a 2,000-0 kill count, and that's a whole different layer of godlike silliness, and makes the universe feel so small that the same dozen characters do everything of note for 30 years.

 

 

In that regard, the plot armor of the OT Movies and the EU are different in kind, and not just in degree.

Edited by AllWingsStandyingBy

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3 hours ago, RufusDaMan said:

I tried to count but this far out from the Galactic Center, my only way of getting the transmission is to patch through some privateer network. The quality of the feed was not the best :D I'm glad I was close tho.

 

12 X-s and Y-s vs 36 TIEs, named pilots and unique astromechs on the rebel side is gonna be a roughly equal battle still.

But let's give the benefit to the Imperials, and say that the rebels were damaged in the previous encounter.

I was going to divide it into 3 shifts to make sense of it, but 36 sounds right to me if you consider a second shift of 36 to be sleeping, 72 total. 

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7 hours ago, Estarriol said:

Worth pointing out that they were never referred to as Rogue Squadron on screen. Rogue Group took part in the battle of Hoth, but it seemed to borrow the pilots that were on screen referred to as Red Squadron from the previous film.

Also worth pointing out, none of the squadrons in the OT are referred to as "Squadron" by any character.

Examples: 

"Squad leaders, we've picked up a new group of signals." Random guy who almost said squadron, ANH

"Red Leader, this is base one, keep half your group out of range..." General Dodonna, ANH

"Red boys, this is Red Leader..." Garven Dreis, ANH

"Rogue Group, use your harpoons and tow cables..." Luke, ESB

"Green Group, stay close to holding sector MD-7." Admiral Ackbar, RotJ

"Red Group, Gold Group all fighters follow me." Lando, RotJ

"All wings report in." Literally every Star Wars person in charge of a bunch of fighters except Luke, Every Movie.

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21 hours ago, JJ48 said:

Wow.  In the games, your lasers couldn't even hit beyond 1.5.  Also in the games, the Z-95's focal point could be adjusted manually, but X-Wings had auto-focus (which sometimes got irritating if you were locked onto an enemy that was really close but then decided to take a potshot at a target further away).

Honestly, that was why I preferred the Z-95. Auto-convergence wasn't something I enjoyed at all.

 

21 hours ago, Odanan said:

Dang, man! That hurts! You could have stopped in that Suncrusher image. Adding Emperor clones, Imperial zombies and the Vong was overkill.

BTW: what's wrong with that (corny) Soontir Fel's story? 

YES, READ AND WEEP THE AWFUL LORE THAT WAS IN THE EU.  Also honestly Soontir Fel going Rebel is just another case of, "We aren't allowed to have cool Imperials are we?" and I hate that so much.
 

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7 minutes ago, Captain Lackwit said:

Honestly, that was why I preferred the Z-95. Auto-convergence wasn't something I enjoyed at all.

"You gotta love the Z-95. Nothing beats the feeling of power they give you." - Bandit Squadron Pilot

(In this case, "power" equals "ability to slightly adjust your lasers")

Edited by JJ48

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31 minutes ago, Captain Lackwit said:

Honestly, that was why I preferred the Z-95. Auto-convergence wasn't something I enjoyed at all.

Keep it real, anything that isn't an A-Wing on Alliance side is not worth flying :P Or better: Anything not an A-Wing is pain in the *** to fly. 

Meanwhile TIE/LN, IN, AD, x1, x7 and Defenders are all not only fun to fly, but so agile that in competent hands could take out anything the alliance had without trouble. At least 1 on 1 and this includes CR90s btw ;-)
In not so competent hands anything unshielded just pops when lasers are traveling vagule in their direction ^_^

Edited by SEApocalypse

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1 hour ago, Captain Lackwit said:

Also honestly Soontir Fel going Rebel is just another case of, "We aren't allowed to have cool Imperials are we?" and I hate that so much.
 

He didn't stay Rebel long though. Joined Thrawn in the Unknown Regions, instead.

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1 hour ago, JJ48 said:

"You gotta love the Z-95. Nothing beats the feeling of power they give you." - Bandit Squadron Pilot

(In this case, "power" equals "ability to slightly adjust your lasers")

"You gotta love the fee-"
>Gets blown out of the sky.

56 minutes ago, Ironlord said:

He didn't stay Rebel long though. Joined Thrawn in the Unknown Regions, instead.

Huh. Somehow that's even worse.

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