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ayedubbleyoo

Characters I over and underrated...

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After playing quite a few games now, I have a couple cards I find I very rarely choose to bring out from my provinces... 

  • Yogo Hiroue, expensive and I usually find I have enough political anyway. I like his ability in theory though, does anyone else rate him?
  • Favored Niece, am I underrating her card draw mechanic?

On the other hand, some I am liking more than I expected:

  • Yogo Outcast, very good value when you're less honorable
  • Bayushi Manipulator, great at the start of the game
  • Shosuro Actress, amazing if you're the first player, usually don't bring her out if not
  • Blackmail Artist, probably my favourite card, especially in the late game

Are there any others you are finding you often don't use? Or any you are liking more than expected?

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I personally find the card cycling Favored Niece provides quite handy if you have all of the wrong answers, which with my luck, I need it. And I usually do not use Hiroue to dishonor people with his action. I usually use it to rope someone my opponent wants to use in a later conflict, usually a LPB or Challenger in as defenders to shut them off. 

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When I first started playing the game as a Scorpion I too thought that Yogo Hiroue was complete and utter trash. However, I persisted in using him as I figured I missed something. The harpooning mechanic he has is incredible, especially if you can manage to win the conflict as you can dishonor whoever you brought in (You need to put two fate on him when he comes out). Favoured Niece is one of my favourite cards in all of Scorpion, the card cycle is incredibly important especially if you are going for a dishonor win to keep honor dial bids low or 0 if Contingency Plan is used to maximize opponents honor loss. Blackmail artist with two fate on him turn 1 can really scare an opponent into an early assassination (if they play them), if not then you can pop off his ability multiple times before he goes. I think you need to play more games with those cards in order to fully see their potential. 

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Talking strictly scorpion?

Hiroue is probably their best card they have. Him being able to pull in bowed guys along with ready guys is totally busted.

TBH, Scorpion has probably the best Dynasty deck in the game, so not really much in the way of disappointment, but here's my general thoughts.

Better than I thought:

- Snow Ninja. Felt her ability was too situational and not impactful enough, but I've been proven wrong so many times on this one. Especially when she is charged in.

-Commander girl. Not a Courtier, didn't seem like a great card. But that swap can create for some crazy board states. I've come around.

Not as good as I thought*:

-Shoju. I find I use his text next to never unless Hiroue is on the table. I thought the text would make him an effective 9 attack beat stick with the upside of occasionally killing guys. More often than not people just let him walk because they know there's no hope in stopping him. Pretty much the same situation as when Hotaru attacks, but without the double ring trigger. 

-Yogo Outcast. He's active just about all the time and he's a shugenja which is relevant. But for some reason a 3/3 for 2 doesn't feel as strong in scorpion as it would in literally any other clan. Maybe it's that the power curve in Scorpion is so high that merely being good isn't enough. Maybe it's that playing a non-courtier has other implications like not being able to play your For Shames and Counterspells as often. Maybe it's something else I can't quite spot. In any case I find myself not playing him as much as I thought when he shows up in my dynasty line up.

*Cards here are still good. But at first glace I thought they were insanely good and now I'm of the opinion they are good but not game defining good.

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Miyako will only get better as more Conflict shinobi are released.

Yunako is fun for her swapping skills trick, and the art is boss.

Hiroue (anyone know how to pronounce his name?) is definitely amazing. Pull in someone they had saved for a later attack and get them committed, or pull one of your guys in to help out.

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1 hour ago, Daigotsu Bakunin said:

Miyako will only get better as more Conflict shinobi are released.

Yunako is fun for her swapping skills trick, and the art is boss.

Hiroue (anyone know how to pronounce his name?) is definitely amazing. Pull in someone they had saved for a later attack and get them committed, or pull one of your guys in to help out.

Meek Informant and Miyako is a great combo already, cheap -/1 for a peek at the opponents hand plus either a discard or dishonored character. Plus if your winning a political conflict and have Spies at Court in hand Meek Informant is a great choice to dishonor and have a potential for 3 card discard (4 with the Earth ring)! 

Edited by cforfar

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4 hours ago, kiramode said:

Not as good as I thought*:

-Shoju. I find I use his text next to never unless Hiroue is on the table. I thought the text would make him an effective 9 attack beat stick with the upside of occasionally killing guys. More often than not people just let him walk because they know there's no hope in stopping him.

So... your problem with him is that your opponent just let's him break provinces without fighting back? And you perceive this as a bad thing?

You confuse me.

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34 minutes ago, Yogo Gohei said:

So... your problem with him is that your opponent just let's him break provinces without fighting back? And you perceive this as a bad thing?

You confuse me.

He's good, but he's not break the game good. When I first saw him I thought he might be one of the 3 or 4 best dynasty cards in the game. He's clearly not that. Hence the asterisk

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Have to agree. Shoju just breaks provinces in most cases, because opposing him isn't just difficult, but dangerous, even for formidable characters thanks to Fiery Madness. Doesn't make him bad. And usually that gets you the honor for unopposed too, or else they're committing 3 skill at least in defense (and still losing the province).

For Phoenix, I definitely overestimated Isawa Masahiro when I started playing. Now I might underrate him a bit, because he's my least favorite Phoenix character. I've just never had the occasion to use his ability, but it's hard for me to judge how often it interferes with the plans of my opponents. I'm probably overrating both Tsukune and Kaede right now due to their vulnerability to being dishonored, but they've both been pretty good for me recently.

Underrated Phoenix card is probably Ishiken Initiate, who can be pretty devastating at the right time, and is also just a 2-cost shugenja.

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4 hours ago, Daigotsu Bakunin said:

Miyako will only get better as more Conflict shinobi are released.

Yunako is fun for her swapping skills trick, and the art is boss.

Hiroue (anyone know how to pronounce his name?) is definitely amazing. Pull in someone they had saved for a later attack and get them committed, or pull one of your guys in to help out.

I'm no Japanese expert, but I think it is pronounced like Hero with a slightly extended Oh sound followed bit a very light eh, almost like you're just bending the sound a bit.  The eh sound would be so light that its more of a mispronunciation to have too much than to just ignore it.  Hiro-(eh).  iirc any time you see OU in Japanese it is an extended O sound.  I'm no expert, but that's what I've been going with.

2 hours ago, Yogo Gohei said:

So... your problem with him is that your opponent just let's him break provinces without fighting back? And you perceive this as a bad thing?

You confuse me.

I think the problem with it is that Scorpion are already so great on POL offense that Shoju can be overkill in certain situations.  You can only declare 1 POL attack in a turn.  If you have Shoju, Bayushi Liar, and Favored Niece out, and your opponent isn't going to return a POL attack back... then you're attacking with effectively 12 POL, but your opponent will chump block to not lose honor and you simply take the province - and then you're left with only Favored Niece to win a MIL defense.

I love Shoju and I'm really glad he's playable now!  But sometimes I think Hiroue works better, and I can drop Shoju for Yunako to cover MIL better...

Edited by Soshi Nimue

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2 hours ago, Waywardpaladin said:

We need an "Exiled in Disgrace" card that lets you discard someone from a POL battle if you won by 5 or more strength.

idk if anyone uses the MIL one, but I think I'd certainly get use out of a POL version playing Scorpion...  I wouldn't mind a POL version of Captive Audience either... :ph34r:

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1 hour ago, Soshi Nimue said:

idk if anyone uses the MIL one, but I think I'd certainly get use out of a POL version playing Scorpion...  I wouldn't mind a POL version of Captive Audience either... :ph34r:

Also agree, I find it odd that these types of cards do not already exist. Maybe they will eventually show up down the road.

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19 hours ago, Dovla said:

Your rating, starting with hiroue who is the best scorpion character by far, is off on almost every card.

Read your post after 50 more games with scorpion and see what happens.

Well thanks for the incredibly condescending reply! ;)

I do think I'm underrating Hiroue, that was kind of the reason for the question. 

Edited by ayedubbleyoo

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23 minutes ago, Spector1331 said:

Lion would beg to differ. Scorpion arguably has the best *Conflict* deck in the game. 

I think you can argue that Scorpion has the strongest dynasty deck. For me it is difficult to rank the dynasty deck from Lion, Dragon and Scorpion, because they are all extremly efficient, but have different weaknesses.

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6 hours ago, SolidusPrime said:

I love Hiroue myself. Pulling in people just for the bow, or to get a tough guy into a political fight with Shoju. He gets a lot of **** from the local Scorpions though, that feel like he costs too much.

I get why people might feel that way - because he is 0/4, but his ability is super useful.  Let them think he's too important though, while you use him to maximum benefit ^_~

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