One year, one release

[Forresto 2,200]

Technically two waves were released this year. 

2x squadron packs

4x ship expansion packs

Not bad. Not bad at all. 

[thecactusman17 3,192]

4 hours ago, Forresto said:

Technically two waves were released this year. 

2x squadron packs

4x ship expansion packs

Not bad. Not bad at all. 

 The squadron packs were part of a single wave.  By your suggestion,  wave one was actually two waves because it included squadrons. 

[ThatRobHuman 1,794]

5 hours ago, Forresto said:

Technically two waves were released this year. 

2x squadron packs

4x ship expansion packs

Not bad. Not bad at all. 

Even if that's the case, and you consider that 2 squadrons and 4 ships are separate releases, that doesn't change the primary issue:
it is the combination of overly slow release cycles, delays, and most importantly: lack of engagement with the community. re-distrubuting the silos in which a release(s) can be categorized does not, sadly, alter this.

[Cusm 466]

I am okay with 6 releases a year, if they would spread it out. Two packs 3 times a year.

[Forresto 2,200]

On November 10, 2017 at 1:39 PM, thecactusman17 said:

 The squadron packs were part of a single wave.  By your suggestion,  wave one was actually two waves because it included squadrons. 

I didnt separate them into waves but expansion types, ships and squadrons. If we're going by waves there were two waves this year.

[thecactusman17 3,192]

4 hours ago, Forresto said:

I didnt separate them into waves but expansion types, ships and squadrons. If we're going by waves there were two waves this year.

Now,  dont take this as a refutation of squads, but squads can't exist without ships by game design. So squads without ships isn't a wave, just like we generally agree that Correlian Conflict wasn't a wave.   That doesn't mean it's a bad idea or a poor addition, just different.

Edited November 12, 2017 by thecactusman17

[ThatRobHuman 1,794]

5 hours ago, Forresto said:

I didnt separate them into waves but expansion types, ships and squadrons. If we're going by waves there were two waves this year.

Dividing a finite and measurable volume into smaller pieces still net you that same volume. No matter how you divide it, it's still the same amount of content.

Besides, this isn't, for many of us about the releases (or lack there of) it's about the fact that the primary game for many of us feels to be an afterthought. As I've said many times, I'm okay with the delayed wave. It's the lack of engagement or supplementary content. I'm desperate for even an article that isn't just another preview.

[Drasnighta 26,831]

FFG Twitter, about, oh, 11 hours ago:

 

 

[ThatRobHuman 1,794]

7 hours ago, Drasnighta said:

FFG Twitter, about, oh, 11 hours ago:

 

 

Yeah. I did ended up responding to that, laying out my problem with that response.

 

Edited November 12, 2017 by FoaS

[Darth evil 906]

well holy crap they have previews and can't wait to share them, well golly that there just makes everything just swell now doh'nit. Sorry but after the something big is coming, they need to man up and post something concrete.

[ThatRobHuman 1,794]

11 minutes ago, Darth evil said:

well holy crap they have previews and can't wait to share them, well golly that there just makes everything just swell now doh'nit. Sorry but after the something big is coming, they need to man up and post something concrete.

Dear FFG, 

This.

[Drasnighta 26,831]

Which makes me beg the question....

 

Will people EVER be satisfied?

Because it’s always “more”.  ?

[ThatRobHuman 1,794]

12 minutes ago, Drasnighta said:

Which makes me beg the question....

 

Will people EVER be satisfied?

Because it’s always “more”.  ?

I was last year.

[GiledPallaeon 2,873]

12 minutes ago, Drasnighta said:

Which makes me beg the question....

 

Will people EVER be satisfied?

Because it’s always “more”.  ?

Yes. We're asking for more than nothing. Not more than everything, or more than something. More than nothing.

Just now, FoaS said:

I was last year.

Case in point.

[Megatronrex 2,867]

36 minutes ago, Drasnighta said:

Which makes me beg the question....

 

Will people EVER be satisfied?

Because it’s always “more”.  ?

I'm just looking for FFG to show me that they're half as passionate about their game as I am. That would satisfy me enough to stop my complaints.

[duck_bird 925]

I'm bummed for sure, but I'm in a weird position where I'm still really new to the game so everything's new to me.  I'll enjoy new ships but I'm still working on figuring out all the current stuff!

A bit off topic but still related to wave 8:  Will FFG ever adjust prices for some of the older stuff?  I look at Tarkin and I can't imagine taking him due to his cost.  Then I look at Thrawn for way less for a WAY cooler ability and it feels like the poor Grand Moff needs a cost decuction!  Does FFG ever change older stuff as the game evolves and power creep happens?

[Megatronrex 2,867]

32 minutes ago, duck_bird said:

A bit off topic but still related to wave 8:  Will FFG ever adjust prices for some of the older stuff?  I look at Tarkin and I can't imagine taking him due to his cost.  Then I look at Thrawn for way less for a WAY cooler ability and it feels like the poor Grand Moff needs a cost decuction!  Does FFG ever change older stuff as the game evolves and power creep happens?

FFG has erratad some cards like Rhymer, who had his range shortened, and trc's, they became an exhaust, but so far they have not adjusted the points cost of anything

[Snipafist 7,536]

50 minutes ago, duck_bird said:

I'm bummed for sure, but I'm in a weird position where I'm still really new to the game so everything's new to me.  I'll enjoy new ships but I'm still working on figuring out all the current stuff!

A bit off topic but still related to wave 8:  Will FFG ever adjust prices for some of the older stuff?  I look at Tarkin and I can't imagine taking him due to his cost.  Then I look at Thrawn for way less for a WAY cooler ability and it feels like the poor Grand Moff needs a cost decuction!  Does FFG ever change older stuff as the game evolves and power creep happens?

It's been my experience that FFG tends to prefer to release upgrades/expansions that give a boost to unloved/underpowered cards rather than errata them. That won't apply to everything (I'm not exactly sure how one fixes Point Defense Reroute, for example), but I wouldn't be surprised to find something that synergizes with Tarkin eventually by doing something that requires lots of command tokens or whatnot.

[Drasnighta 26,831]

1 hour ago, GiledPallaeon said:

Yes. We're asking for more than nothing. Not more than everything, or more than something. More than nothing.

Case in point.

My point being, if they dropped a MC75 article tomorrow, would that be “enough”, or would the complaints continue?

What is “enough”... is there even an “enough” now?

 

 

I speak from my own enjoyment of the game. I get that people are not happy, and are choosing to rightfully express it...

But I do get concerned with excessive negativity. Negativity that is expressed here in a permanent format that, itself, can damage the long term reputation of the game.

Because we all well know that a situation will draw a dozen complaints, but a rectification of that situation will get a single acknowledgement...  This IS the internet after all...

At what point can I acknowledge people’s right to complain - but at the same time, at what point can I admit that I feel that bit has been said and now people are just harping on it rather than waiting for a resolution - and inevitably, to acknowledge that people will never be satisfied with a solution even when it starts to be presented.

 

For example: The complaint was no communication... We now have SOME communication, but that’s not good enough.  Some is better than none, especially when none is the normal.... 

Hence my question.

Look, in the end, Im tired. I ran YET Another tournament today where even numbers turned up, so I could not play... Given those circumstances - the negativity here is getting to me.

Heck, there was a massed message thrown towards a bunch of “pillars of the community” that expressed absolute doom and gloom as inside knowledge. From, of course, effectively a ghost account... 

I just feel my right to enjoy the game is being kicked to the curb because a bunch of people are not happy... And a bunch of people being loudly unhappy are going to turn away people at face value before they even get a chance to enjoy ANY of the positives of the game, now OR in the future.

 

Or, you know, ignore me. I am bitter, tired and worn out. 

I want to have fun. But my friends are either having fun without me, or in the online case, not having fun with the thing I want to...

So what am I to do?

 

[MandalorianMoose 1,862]

8 minutes ago, Drasnighta said:

So what am I to do?

 

Tell someone else to sack up and TO an event so that you get to play the greatest game ever created too for once.

I️ mean, the NOSE PUNCH happened last time you got to play, who knows what else you have schemed up in that noodle of yours.

For real though, let your group know that someone else will need to step up or you will have to force a bye. You TO so many tournaments that you don’t play in, you deserve to participate every once in a while

[Ophion 932]

 

1 hour ago, duck_bird said:

I'm bummed for sure, but I'm in a weird position where I'm still really new to the game so everything's new to me.  I'll enjoy new ships but I'm still working on figuring out all the current stuff!

A bit off topic but still related to wave 8:  Will FFG ever adjust prices for some of the older stuff?  I look at Tarkin and I can't imagine taking him due to his cost.  Then I look at Thrawn for way less for a WAY cooler ability and it feels like the poor Grand Moff needs a cost decuction!  Does FFG ever change older stuff as the game evolves and power creep happens?

Sovereign - ISD title - minus 10 points. Grand moff Tarkin must be your fleet commander

[Drasnighta 26,831]

17 minutes ago, MandalorianMoose said:

Tell someone else to sack up and TO an event so that you get to play the greatest game ever created too for once.

I️ mean, the NOSE PUNCH happened last time you got to play, who knows what else you have schemed up in that noodle of yours.

For real though, let your group know that someone else will need to step up or you will have to force a bye. You TO so many tournaments that you don’t play in, you deserve to participate every once in a while

A lot of my players travel multiple hours to play. Byes are really not fair to them. Heck, one player today travelled from Saskatoon.., ~10hrs.

im also the official legal liaison with the game store in question... makes it hard to delegate. We are in this situation due to previous (before my time) complaints... making sure we do not go back to it.. it’s less not that people don’t want to run for me - they just can’t...

Edited November 13, 2017 by Drasnighta

[MandalorianMoose 1,862]

1 minute ago, Drasnighta said:

A lot of my players travel multiple hours to play. Byes are really not fair to them. Heck, one player today travelled from Saskatoon.., ~10hrs.

Don’t you also travel like 2+ hours via public transit? All I’m saying I️s that you deserve some fun too man

[Drasnighta 26,831]

Just now, MandalorianMoose said:

Don’t you also travel like 2+ hours via public transit? All I’m saying I️s that you deserve some fun too man

I do, but see my edit above ?

[GiledPallaeon 2,873]

1 hour ago, Drasnighta said:

My point being, if they dropped a MC75 article tomorrow, would that be “enough”, or would the complaints continue?

What is “enough”... is there even an “enough” now?

I speak from my own enjoyment of the game. I get that people are not happy, and are choosing to rightfully express it...

But I do get concerned with excessive negativity. Negativity that is expressed here in a permanent format that, itself, can damage the long term reputation of the game.

Because we all well know that a situation will draw a dozen complaints, but a rectification of that situation will get a single acknowledgement...  This IS the internet after all...

At what point can I acknowledge people’s right to complain - but at the same time, at what point can I admit that I feel that bit has been said and now people are just harping on it rather than waiting for a resolution - and inevitably, to acknowledge that people will never be satisfied with a solution even when it starts to be presented.

For example: The complaint was no communication... We now have SOME communication, but that’s not good enough.  Some is better than none, especially when none is the normal.... 

Hence my question.

Look, in the end, Im tired. I ran YET Another tournament today where even numbers turned up, so I could not play... Given those circumstances - the negativity here is getting to me.

Heck, there was a massed message thrown towards a bunch of “pillars of the community” that expressed absolute doom and gloom as inside knowledge. From, of course, effectively a ghost account... 

I just feel my right to enjoy the game is being kicked to the curb because a bunch of people are not happy... And a bunch of people being loudly unhappy are going to turn away people at face value before they even get a chance to enjoy ANY of the positives of the game, now OR in the future.

Or, you know, ignore me. I am bitter, tired and worn out. 

I want to have fun. But my friends are either having fun without me, or in the online case, not having fun with the thing I want to...

So what am I to do?

Well then I'm happy to know I'm still enough of a small fish around here to escape notice as a "pillar of the community" (which honestly I'm not sad about and is justified anyway). To answer your question in another way, yes we've broken net zero. That's not really enough, and I think you do know why, but you've locked yourself into a devil's advocate position on this debate, so I'll expand some more.

It's really not communication we want, that's just been the barometer to date. We want to feel like we're not some half-assed fleeting thought that occasionally/accidentally crosses FFG's radar. We're the fourth best selling miniatures game in the world, and the second at FFG. We as a community are why that is the case, and it is oftentimes the members of this forum (though far from exclusively) that are the game's most tireless advocates and promoters. You do this, so do many others too numerous to name. What we want is to be rewarded for that effort with respect. We don't want "participation trophies", we don't want something we aren't entitled to; what we want is for the company that makes the game we love to not leave it at the wayside. Releasing waves is important for game health. So are articles about other things, whether that's op-eds from players, developer's blogs, either past or future looking, or anything else. Given that FFG is apparently in a position to launch a game while standing up FFI and God only knows what else is going on in Roseville, I really don't feel all that bad for their shareholders when I ask them to play the long game and work with the community and keep it happy by hiring a couple additional PR people dedicated to FFG's Star Wars games as a whole, rather maximizing what they get this quarter.

The community feels neglected, on behalf of the game we love. The FAQ for something that had to be a question for playtesters magically didn't appear in time for Nationals or GenCon, two of the biggest tournaments in FFG's lineup. That was a massive screwup, but really only indicative of a problem that is slowly growing worse and worse. Honestly, no, a preview article is NOT enough. It'll be nice, and we'll all geek out over it, and the next one and so on, but if the game continues to have each wave pushed farther and farther back from its predecessor, and if FFG does nothing to very little to fill the intervening period with some content, whether that's campaigns, scenarios like Take the Station, whatever else it is, it's going to be painful. This community shrinks between every Wave, we all know it, and the shrink continues the longer the gap becomes. Our community of bloggers are doing their level best to generate content, but they are just out of things to say. I certainly don't mind where the meta is right now, and if push came to shove and the game ended after the next wave or two (well first off there's going to be a run on whatever product is out there right now), I would be frustrated, but not because it ended, but because I know this is a system that can endure almost indefinitely if given the appropriate support. And it isn't. Many of us are worried we're watching Armada die, not because of a power creep flaw like X-wing, or any other game issue, but because FFG can't be bothered to get its **** together.

I'm sorry, I know I got a little dramatic towards the end there, but you aren't the only one on here nearing the end of various ropes or cords. I'm sorry you never get to play anymore, and that your personal situation is undoubtedly stressful, given the confluence of factors going on in your life. And I understand your concern about the negativity. Ordinarily I would feel the same, but I think in this case it's warranted. It's a cry for help. I don't know if Gernes or anyone else in a position to do anything about it will hear it, but here it is. Maybe we'll all be proven wrong, and that is my genuine preference, or maybe the game will continue to trudge along, forever supported by the industriousness of the KDY group and contributors there. But the fact of the matter remains that FFG is making a mistake, and as a community of people who care very deeply about this game, we are expressing that concern, before we are forced to stop being devoted fans and start becoming discerning consumers instead. That would break my heart more than anything else about this game, and it's a day I pray we all never experience.

Edited November 13, 2017 by GiledPallaeon