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'The stories we tell' new fiction up on main site

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But to blame the Unicorn Champion for breaking off her marriage to a Lion daimyo would be... "dishonorable". Better to blame his wife, that truly love him, for getting mad about being cast aside so her husband could marry another woman.  ::sarcastic tone implied:: (politics!) ::throws arms up in the air::

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Any way,  I did enjoy the fiction. Liked Shizue's view of her adopted father. Notice her view of him was also middle of the road, her view a metaphor of just like how she is the peacemaker between Hotaru and Kuwannan. Satsume was gruff, stern, but not unkind. What could be expected from a man in his position? His relationship and death was the "truth" to each child.

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9 hours ago, Waywardpaladin said:

Stories like this always make me glad not to live in a society like Rokugan's. The lack of objective truth, the emphasis on appearances and not reality.

Of course Machiavelli said that Western societies are mostly vulgar as well and focused on seeming rather than being, but we at least pay lip service to truth I suppose ><

Machiavelli said a lot of things, but Qui-Gon said, "Your perception determines your reality." That was Liam Neeson's character in Star Wars Episode I: The Phantom Menace. Do you challenge the words of Neeson-sama?

Edited by Ide Yoshiya

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10 hours ago, Yakamo no Oni said:

However, later Kachiko explicitly states that there is in fact an alliance with between Crane and Phoenix:

Old word of god alliance. In theory, the Crane and Phoenix are buddies going back centuries and often back one another up, according to the setting's lore.

In practice, in O5R the alliance was something we kept getting told about and basically never saw amount to anything (and relations were actually so sour by the end of AEG's run that the last LTP set included the Crane Champion staging a conflict purely to paper things over with the Phoenix- and at WC4, the two clans nearly came to blows, through a combination of player action and plot-mandated positions).

10 hours ago, Yakamo no Oni said:

So: Lion might have trouble with Phoenix, because Phoenix is currently allied with Crane even though Kaede and Toturi are married. Apparently, Phoenix and Unicorn "grow more amicable" even though Phoenix with the support of Lion tried to ban meishodo and failed doing so. They probably still hate meishodo but decided for some reasons to engage in diplomatic talks with the Unicorn.

 

I'm confused.... :blink:

Preeeeeetty sure it's meant to be the Crane and Dragon (both of whom get along just fine with both Unicorn and Phoenix so far as we've seen) smoothing over the rough edges and trying to get their buddies to make nice- exactly the sort of thing the Otomo are against.

 

The Lion, at present, are hacked at the Crane, furious at the Unicorn... cozying up to the Phoenix whose alliance with the Crane is a pretty informal thing is hardly beyond the pale, especially if they can lever the support of the Phoenix away from the Crane.

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I'm actually really interested to see what they do with Daisetsu.

I have a signed CE Daigotsu playmat as a prized possession and a way of representing my first love of L5R. But that story has been told. The man, the myth, the legend has been reincarnated and this time his outrageously troubled birth is a figment of the imaginations of the Kami.

If he was born as a regular human child, what would become of that man I wonder?

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33 minutes ago, Daigotsu Steve said:

I'm actually really interested to see what they do with Daisetsu.

I have a signed CE Daigotsu playmat as a prized possession and a way of representing my first love of L5R. But that story has been told. The man, the myth, the legend has been reincarnated and this time his outrageously troubled birth is a figment of the imaginations of the Kami.

If he was born as a regular human child, what would become of that man I wonder?

My favorite thing about it is that we as a community likely won't have such a strong division on the pronunciation of the character's name. The whole "Daigotsu/Daigatsu" thing kind of bugged me.

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5 minutes ago, Ide Yoshiya said:

My favorite thing about it is that we as a community likely won't have such a strong division on the pronunciation of the character's name. The whole "Daigotsu/Daigatsu" thing kind of bugged me.

Yeah, I mean who in their right mind would pronounce the new name any way other than "Die-SEE-tsoo" amiright? 

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good lord where do i start with this fiction. i am thrilled to have my dude show up in the new canon, and i really love this first appearance. he's obviously up to SOMETHING but its not immediately clear what. Dags was, i think it can be agreed upon, at his best as a villain when he was doing his dark mirror thing. It was a different version of the shadowlands, and not everyone's cup of tea, but it was when he was most effective. casting him in the new canon, as this story seems to suggest, as a disaffected younger prince, sets him up to use that play up that angle again. we know samurai drama is at the heart of what Katrina and her team want to do with the story, as opposed one supposes to revolving door supernatural threats, so it makes sense to empahsize that with him. That said, the impending arrival of his main squeeze Shahai, and the threat of her foreign magics and the further looming day of thunder is a sort of katana of damocles over his head. 

anyway, tl;dr i love this new portrayal, theres clearly so much potential for him as a rogue prince, as a usurper, to be tempted by heretical ideas (cf his interest in alternative truths) in pursuit of the throne. all while avoiding his most problematic elements (his goofy onibound origin, and the much maligned spider clan)

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Ok, I have to ask:

Why is everybody outright assuming that Daisetsu is Daigotsu, just with another name?

I get it, all of you Spider/Shadowlands players are happy to see some resemblance, and I even understand that you theorize with them being similar. But the more I read, the more it seems you think the end of the story is gonna be the same: young prince corrupted by Fu Leng. 

They even made them the opposite, for Kami’s sake. Daigotsu with white hair, said to seem always amused, and Daisetsu with black hair, always thoughtful.

So yeah, it seems to me Daisetsu is gonna be important in the story, even spurring dissent within the Imperial family (that part about the princes not having the same opinion), but leaping from that to him marrying Sahai and being corrupted, well... it’s just assuming too much.  

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5 minutes ago, Tabris2k said:

Ok, I have to ask:

Why is everybody outright assuming that Daisetsu is Daigotsu, just with another name?

I get it, all of you Spider/Shadowlands players are happy to see some resemblance, and I even understand that you theorize with them being similar. But the more I read, the more it seems you think the end of the story is gonna be the same: young prince corrupted by Fu Leng. 

They even made them the opposite, for Kami’s sake. Daigotsu with white hair, said to seem always amused, and Daisetsu with black hair, always thoughtful.

So yeah, it seems to me Daisetsu is gonna be important in the story, even spurring dissent within the Imperial family (that part about the princes not having the same opinion), but leaping from that to him marrying Sahai and being corrupted, well... it’s just assuming too much.  

Second son of Hochiahime? Same reason it's assumed that Hotaru = Hoturi? It's a legitimate connection to make.  And who knows what color Daigotsu's hair was before he was all taintified.

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5 minutes ago, Tabris2k said:

Ok, I have to ask:

Why is everybody outright assuming that Daisetsu is Daigotsu, just with another name?

I get it, all of you Spider/Shadowlands players are happy to see some resemblance, and I even understand that you theorize with them being similar. But the more I read, the more it seems you think the end of the story is gonna be the same: young prince corrupted by Fu Leng. 

They even made them the opposite, for Kami’s sake. Daigotsu with white hair, said to seem always amused, and Daisetsu with black hair, always thoughtful.

So yeah, it seems to me Daisetsu is gonna be important in the story, even spurring dissent within the Imperial family (that part about the princes not having the same opinion), but leaping from that to him marrying Sahai and being corrupted, well... it’s just assuming too much.  

Actually, the exciting part of this whole thing is that it DOESNT have to end with him being corrupted. They could go any direction they want with him!

Remember, Spider won the CCG. We had one job, take the Hantei Heir and put him on the throne of Rokugan, it was accomplished to the salty tears of the masses. That means we don't need that story, they will never top it, so the exciting part is what happens to this new version of him.

He could fall into corruption, becoming the seed of Fu-Leng's rebirth.
He could ascend to being Dark Lord once more, the Dr. Doom of the setting.
He could remain an Imperial, becoming a powerful Otomo in the setting.
He could start a Brother's Contest for the throne, playing out like the Heir struggle in Ivory Edition.
He could take the throne himself if his brother dies.
He could become a paragon of Bushido and save the empire.

The sky is the limit. Its just that fans of Daddy D are feeling the same excitement that the Mantis players had when Yoritomo was name dropped in the first fiction. We care less about exactly HOW it happens, we are just excited to have him back. The best part of Daigotsu wasn't his power or just being evil, its that he was a character defined as having the strongest of wills, ambition beyond anyone else, and a deep love for both his God and his family that drove him. He was the one that upon ascension to actual godhood, becoming the mightiest cosmological being in the setting, had his first word be a weeping sob as he rose next to Fu Leng's corpse, a whisper of sorrow for the death of his brother, his god. Daigotsu, like him or hate him, was a dynamic character. If they manage to capture that intensity, not just with him but ANY character, the story will only become better and better.  

I don't care what direction they choose for him to go, I just want them to honor the sheer will and nature of a character of his scale. He doesn't need to rule the world or be the center of attention 24/7. He just needs to be interesting, similar enough to honor old fans but unique enough to earn his own distinction, like all of these rebooted characters.

 

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12 minutes ago, TheItsyBitsySpider said:

He just needs to be interesting, similar enough to honor old fans but unique enough to earn his own distinction, like all of these rebooted characters.

 

In that case, perhaps we should view him solely in the context of his own merits, and not in the immense shadow of his parallel-universe counterpart.

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44 minutes ago, twinstarbmc said:

Second son of Hochiahime? Same reason it's assumed that Hotaru = Hoturi? It's a legitimate connection to make.  And who knows what color Daigotsu's hair was before he was all taintified.

Hotaru = Hoturi because he was gender swapped, thus changing a male name for a female one. But Toturi is still Toturi, Shoju is still Shoju, Tsuko is still Tsuko... They haven’t changed the names of already known characters. Why do it with Daigotsu?

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Just now, Tabris2k said:

Hotaru = Hoturi because he was gender swapped, thus changing a male name for a female one. But Toturi is still Toturi, Shoju is still Shoju, Tsuko is still Tsuko... They haven’t changed the names of already known characters. Why do it with Daigotsu?

I'm still convinced it has to do with that pronunciation debacle.

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1 minute ago, Ide Yoshiya said:

In that case, perhaps we should view him solely in the context of his own merits, and not in the immense shadow of his parallel-universe counterpart.

You can do both, just a balancing act of expectations with reality.

1 minute ago, Tabris2k said:

 They haven’t changed the names of already known characters. Why do it with Daigotsu?

Because Daisetsu is still a child. Once a samurai passes their gempukku they get a new name. It's why they specify that he is almost at his Gempukku.

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20 minutes ago, TheItsyBitsySpider said:

The sky is the limit. Its just that fans of Daddy D are feeling the same excitement that the Mantis players had when Yoritomo was name dropped in the first fiction. We care less about exactly HOW it happens, we are just excited to have him back. The best part of Daigotsu wasn't his power or just being evil, its that he was a character defined as having the strongest of wills, ambition beyond anyone else, and a deep love for both his God and his family that drove him. He was the one that upon ascension to actual godhood, becoming the mightiest cosmological being in the setting, had his first word be a weeping sob as he rose next to Fu Leng's corpse, a whisper of sorrow for the death of his brother, his god. Daigotsu, like him or hate him, was a dynamic character. If they manage to capture that intensity, not just with him but ANY character, the story will only become better and better.

See? This is what I’m talking about. First, I doubt Mantis players would’ve reacted like this to the mention of a pirate called Yotsutomo. 

Second, you’re assuming he’s Daigotsu, and that he’s gonna have all of Daigotsu’s traits. He’s called Daisetsu, so he has to have the strongest of wills, ambition beyond anyone else, and a deep love for both his god and his family. 

See what I mean?

Look, this Matsu Tsuko seems to be the same Matsu Tsuko we know from OL5R, like Kachiko, or Shoju, or many others. If they’re going to introduce Daigotsu, why not doing it with the same name?

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12 minutes ago, TheItsyBitsySpider said:

Because Daisetsu is still a child. Once a samurai passes their gempukku they get a new name. It's why they specify that he is almost at his Gempukku.

Oh, didn’t think of that. My last response to you was before I read this. 

Sorry, it takes me some time to write in English, so by the time I answer one post, there are three or four new. 

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what they all said. other than his name being different there really isn't any reason to doubt this is the same kid who became Daigotsu in the old fiction. and i 100% agree with this. very well said

35 minutes ago, TheItsyBitsySpider said:

The best part of Daigotsu wasn't his power or just being evil, its that he was a character defined as having the strongest of wills, ambition beyond anyone else, and a deep love for both his God and his family that drove him. He was the one that upon ascension to actual godhood, becoming the mightiest cosmological being in the setting, had his first word be a weeping sob as he rose next to Fu Leng's corpse, a whisper of sorrow for the death of his brother, his god. Daigotsu, like him or hate him, was a dynamic character. If they manage to capture that intensity, not just with him but ANY character, the story will only become better and better.  

don't get me wrong, i love the supernatural aspect of Daigotsu's old story, but at the heart of it was his connections to the people and drives in his life (his wife, his son, his faith, and his ambitions) and how they pulled at him in different directions. in essence, the very things that make up a good samurai drama, and thus have the potential to make him an exciting addition to the new story. having shahai in the story already, rather than repeating his jigoku dunked origins, suggests that they recognize that those connections are what made him interesting and valuable. 

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