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Fu Leng

Charge question spurred by this mulligan debate on various sites??

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Can you bring in a face down character after peeking during your mulligan

The card says bring a character in from a province but doesn’t specify that the card had to be face up.

(In the current format it’s more than a 90% chance that your face down cards are characters so it’s a good option, I would like to know what these people do if they happen to flip a holding though. Do they discard it or flip another card.)

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That makes no sense, the card will be flipped in the first dynasty phase, before the first conflict phase. So it won't be face down when charge gets to be played...

Unless I'm missing something obvious?

Edited by Seawhale

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23 minutes ago, Seawhale said:

That makes no sense, the card will be flipped in the first dynasty phase, before the first conflict phase. So it won't be face down when charge gets to be played...

Unless I'm missing something obvious?

You're not. It's an impossible scenario, and a face-down card wouldn't be a valid target for Charge! anyway.

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Hmm. My common sense is tingling... Can't be done. 

Thing is the game state doesn't know your card is a character until flipped. Even if you swore to Kami you have only characters in your dynasty a face down one isn't a valid target for "charge". The game doesn't meta you. 

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While the actual card may indeed be a character, when it is facedown that is not known and since Charge requires you to choose a character, the face down card cannot be chosen.

If you are implying that you could tell your opponent "But I know it's a character because I looked" that would be cheating.  And while it would be in character for Fu Leng to try and win by any means, in this case it would likely get you DQ'd. So I'd encourage you not to do that.

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My son had this done to him by a crane deck in an "event" in Vegas.  I was just reading http://www.cardgamedb.com/forums/index.php?/topic/37717-mulligan/

and I guess the deal is, you get to look at your new mulligan cards and thus you know what character is there.  And so, some are playing charge that way. My son's event was an official FFG event. 

Anyway, thanks for the input. I just want an official ruling?

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23 minutes ago, Fu Leng said:

My son had this done to him by a crane deck in an "event" in Vegas.  I was just reading http://www.cardgamedb.com/forums/index.php?/topic/37717-mulligan/

and I guess the deal is, you get to look at your new mulligan cards and thus you know what character is there.  And so, some are playing charge that way. My son's event was an official FFG event. 

Anyway, thanks for the input. I just want an official ruling?

 

It still doesn't make sense.

There's no reason to play Charge on facedown cards right after the mulligan, because in just a few seconds you'll flip and reveal them anyway. Additionally, there is no Action Window between a mulligan and the reveal of your facedown dynasty cards in your first turn.

You set up, mulligan dynasty cards, mulligan conflict cards.

You move into the dynasty phase of turn 1, reveal the facedown dynasty cards, collect fate.

Then you get your first Action Window. So you're literally not allowed to play Charge right after the mulligan. You have to wait until those cards are already flipped faceup.

 

I have no idea what happened to your son in Vegas, but he should have called a judge imo. The Timing and Gameplay Appendix in the RR (p.18) is all the offiial ruling you need to make this play not only illegal but impossible.

Edited by Yakamo no Oni

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@Fu LengThat's not what that link says.

What's it is ruling on is allowing players to peek at their dynasty cards after they mulligan their dynasty cards and before they draw and mulligan their first 4 conflict cards.

After mulligans are done, the dynasty phase begins and all dynasty cards are flipped face up.  At no point after that is a player allowed to look at face down dynasty cards.

Edited by Ishi Tonu

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Sorry for the confusion guys, 

Mirith cleared things up for me

He wrote: 

The new ruling I've seen says lets you do the following:

1) After Dynasty cards are dealt you can look at them and set any number of them aside and deal new ones and shuffle (Not new)

2) You can peek at the new cards (New from ruling)

3) Draw your conflict cards and mulligan them. (Not New)

 

You cannot Charge a facedown card.  It is not a legal target.

 

Thanks Mirith!

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7 hours ago, Joe From Cincinnati said:

Can people please stop trying to break the rules of the game? They're fine. Stop overthinking stuff so much...

But... but... what if I want to assasinate your Watch Commander? It cost 2 or less and if you look at the picture he's clearly a character!

Also, I used my Way of the Crab while you didn't have any characters on the board. That means you must sacrifice yourself. *hands you a wakizashi*

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17 hours ago, Tabris2k said:

Also, I used my Way of the Crab while you didn't have any characters on the board. That means you must sacrifice yourself. *hands you a wakizashi*

I love this idea...puts some real tension in the game!

And the Crane, Dragon and Scorpion think their bow effects are strong...PFFFT!!!!

Edited by kraken78

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