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Beatty

What Miniature Game Companies Suck At

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Now I will start with saying I am looking forward to Legion, like a lot. That said I have some concerns. 

In my experience with Miniature Games, and it is a long extensive history, the vast majority of companies fail at making terrain for their games. As someone who loves to get into these games this is a Huge turn off for me and knowing FFG they will absolutely fail hard at this and we will be relying on 3rd Party Companies to fill in for FFG’s failure to understand what Miniature Games are supposed to be, a fully immersed hobby. Instead they will suggest cardboard templates like in IA and then try and sue anyone making terrain from a 3rd Party.

My hope is that FFG and Disney will stay the **** out of the way and let these companies fill in what FFG won’t actually do. But if we look at X-Wing and Armada 3rd parties did make 3D terrain and they got sued by FFG to stop but FFG still has done nothing to fill that gap. 

So FFG if you are not going to make quality Terrain for once stay the heck out of the way and let others do the job you suck at doing. Let others make terrain instead of your usual method of suing others into stopping their production while you do your usual nothing. Do the right thing this time. If you want to be a Miniature Game Company don’t be like other companies that just sue people for doing the job you suck at.

Again, my criticism is not related to rules and game pieces, which are actually good, but it is more of pointing out FFG sucks so hard at the other aspects of the game, like terrain. Like they are really really bad at it and instead sue others that make it. Is that to keep others from profiting off their license or are they afraid of looking bad for sucking at doing nothing to fill that gap? I got my money on the later.

Edited by Beatty

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Yes but that’s the issue. A smart company would realize that players in Miniature Games need terrain and will produce themed terrain. But FFG is a game company that only dabbles in Miniature Games and so far their record for mats and terrain has been atrocious. (Yes they now have mats but it took years for them to realize they need to make them and when they did they did the lame method of releasing them late as **** and then made 3rd party mats illegal for tournaments after everyone bought them. Just lame as ****.) Like an F on the grading scale. So their rules are great but the follow through is amateur level.

Edited by Beatty

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Wargaming, as far back to the 50s, when my grandfather was painting, building, and playing, was a hobby. Not a marketing strategy. Building terrain and painting minis is 50% of the hobby. Playing is the other half. Nobody has failed, because the game style has endured time without the support you mention.

Ive mentioned in other threads that i wouldn't mind tiny Star Warsy pieces like the barricades that come with the core. But I'd rather a company focus on what I cant supply; amazing minis and solid rules. 

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I'm not sure I see the problem. It's not like terrain isn't available. Yeah it's not official "Star Wars" terrain, but I don't see a heck of a lot of difference between Tatooine buildings and the generic "Desert/North African inspired" buildings you can get from dozens of suppliers.

FFG/LFL can issue a C&D for stuff that clearly infringes, but when you talk wargame terrain, that isn't so easy. Usually it's the companies that clearly recast official products, or that market their wares using copyrighted terms or trademarks. Beyond that it's hard to prove a tree is an Endor tree and not a Big Sur tree.

Really it just sounds like we need a sticky showing where to get supplies and ready-made items...

Edited by Ghostofman

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Battlefield in a box does great stuff that just needs flock (supplied), otherwise O scale train gear.

Then theres already 3d printed parts available already and a dozens more designs if you know where to look and are prepared to pay a service or have access to a printer

Edited by Ralgon

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46 minutes ago, ninclouse2000 said:

I could have sworn I heard they would be coming out with shield generators and both styled turrets and things of that nature at least

Not really terrain though. Turrets and shield gens have actual functions that could be represented as actutal heavy support slotted units. Not all parts of your your army have to be mobile...

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I suspect we will see tournament legal mats and some tournament legal terrain and then there will be rules about terrain you can use.  I plan to 3D print most of my terrain.  If you are playing casual, you can do as you like and most game shops will have generic items you can use.  I will definitely NOT be lugging around terrain to use at the local game shop.  At home, I can see three scenarios: Tatooine, Endor and Hoth and that will be it because terrain takes up a lot of space and is expensive.

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1 hour ago, TurboCooler said:

I suspect we will see tournament legal mats and some tournament legal terrain and then there will be rules about terrain you can use.  I plan to 3D print most of my terrain.  If you are playing casual, you can do as you like and most game shops will have generic items you can use.  I will definitely NOT be lugging around terrain to use at the local game shop.  At home, I can see three scenarios: Tatooine, Endor and Hoth and that will be it because terrain takes up a lot of space and is expensive.

I'm gonna Counter this one.

Terrain isn't an easy sell, so its possible that FFG may make cheap terrain of so e kind or another, but unlikely considering how may people are willing to make thier own for cheaper. The game core rules will define terrain effects and likely either the core or tournament rules will have suggestions on table layout for tournament play, and fixed positions like  turrets are possible as unit options, but I am skeptical we'll see official Star Wars trees and buildings.

Most game shops keep thier own terrain, so you only need to bring your own if you want to.

Terrain is only as expensive and large as you want it to be. For years my terrain all fit into a single Rubbermaid container and cost me around $60.

 

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18 hours ago, Ghostofman said:

Really it just sounds like we need a sticky showing where to get supplies and ready-made items...

I can help a little bit with this, back in the day before Runewars was released someone made a topic about terrain/ table building. And I did provide quite some links. What you find there is about basing (bases and tables) scenery, mats and buildings but these are of course fantasy ones, though some of the linked shops have also sc-fi stuff, you should read the whole thread though because not everthying is collected in the first post.

 

EDIT: Edit beeing european I think quite some of the stuff I linked is from companies in europe so depending where you are it might not be so helpful.

Edited by Iceeagle85

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1 hour ago, Iceeagle85 said:

EDIT: Edit beeing european I think quite some of the stuff I linked is from companies in europe so depending where you are it might not be so helpful.

Most of the cool stuff is from Europe these days. Though cost of shipping usually isn't bad these days, so the big deal is usually more about figuring out the currency conversion....

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The most logical thing for FFG to make/sell would be an Objective Marker set or an Advanced Barricade set. Although I would see these as tournament giveaway pieces which is really a shame as there is never anything other than X-Wing tournaments anywhere locally.

Edited by C3POFETT

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The myth that making terrain is expensive is only as true as you want it to be. Sure, everyone has a different budget. I get that. And not to float my own boat, but My Ord Mantell board is 80% built (not painted), and has only cost me about $60 so far. And $50 of that was insulation foam. Making your own terrain is cost effective and fun. Get your family into it. Your friends, children, anyone. Nobody wants to spend $100+ on a piece of terrain. 

The funny part is that my gf and myself are already sketching out our second board lol. Ive created a monster.

 

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Here is a mixture of paper and pvc ready to be fielded with some assembly required. Dropzone commander, Plastcraft colored ED, some Ebay hong kong cars and buses, along with some strees.  Plastcraft and 4grounds makes some nice 28mm terrain. If this games takes off like crazy,  can see them making stuff playable for this.  It's off scale but it works for me.

IMG_0020.jpg

IMG_0022.jpg

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They might produce terrain but it will be crazy expensive, as it always is when miniature companies do it. Its an even smaller market then the miniatures for their games so its probably not very cost effective for them either.

Aside from those terrain pieces for x-wing featuring star wars ships, ive never heard of any company chasing after anyone selling terrain. If you dont want to make your own (which can be as complicated or as simple as you want it to be) there are countless third-party options for all kind of scenery and scales, some at pretty decent prices.

 

Terrain availablility have never been an issue in wargaming, now less so then ever. A tip for anyone new, google for 28mm MDF terrain!

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11 minutes ago, Soulless said:

They might produce terrain but it will be crazy expensive, as it always is when miniature companies do it. Its an even smaller market then the miniatures for their games so its probably not very cost effective for them either.

Aside from those terrain pieces for x-wing featuring star wars ships, ive never heard of any company chasing after anyone selling terrain. If you dont want to make your own (which can be as complicated or as simple as you want it to be) there are countless third-party options for all kind of scenery and scales, some at pretty decent prices.

 

Terrain availablility have never been an issue in wargaming, now less so then ever. A tip for anyone new, google for 28mm MDF terrain!

As a matter of fact. Kickstarter has one you can still late pledge. It made with this game in mind.

 

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/981366386/star-wars-legion-terrain?ref=discovery

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