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theaficionado

The Scorpion Tanker and Backhanded Compliment

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5 minutes ago, RandomJC said:

Well, He never said liar. That's how it works, as long as you don't say liar, I can't say you called someone that. :ph34r: 

Please. There is a big difference between the two, and any adult knows that. I pick and choose my words carefully.

Saying I don't necessarily believe some random guy on the internet confers much more respect than saying he's here lying to everyone. One leaves room for me to read further and evolve an opinion. The other outright accuses a person of being intentionally deceptive and rejects what they are saying.

Quit trying to pick a fight.

Edited by SolidusPrime

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23 minutes ago, TheItsyBitsySpider said:

No, it shakes up the format and forces players to make new decisions, otherwise the best cards in clans will simply always rise to the surface in an eternal format that LCGs have. 

Its a minor restriction that effects 20 cards out of this years 300, that they clearly are designing around. There is a reason Talisman of the Sun is only for Keeper roles afterall. ;)  

Its not a terrible problem, its not a "rule that stops new players", its just something YOU dislike. Your making a far larger deal over something that effects so few cards in your deck.

If the problem is card balance then this isn't the players fault. Its poor design.The game should be providing incentives in the form of exciting cards so  players  use different roles and elements. Forcing a clan to be 1 role for a year actually speeds up the stagnation process all the more quicker because there's less card pool to work with in that role.

If its so minor of a problem why bother having it. I'm merely asking for the rules that are in the rule book. Pick an element. Pick a role. Build a deck out of cards you paid for. Have fun. Not Pick a clan. Pick from the few strategies that exist within that role. Pick from the scraps of the card pool you have (Because element restricted cards are coming too) to build a deck. Hopefully have fun.

And I know what you're going to say. But no I won't quit and play something else because you're too lazy to come up with a compelling argument. Especially when the fix is as easy as simply following its own rule book.

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11 minutes ago, Reins Vengard said:

If the problem is card balance then this isn't the players fault. Its poor design

So, what about simply removing the roles, and all seeker/keeper cards from the pool? Would this be a solution from your point of view? It's a serious question to understand where the problem lies for you and other players with the same view

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10 hours ago, Matrim said:

The other moans are the people complaining that the reason for the choice was weak. It wasn't. They could have done it for any reason at all and that would be great as they put the effort in and had the talent to win. Just as a disclaimaer I was equally distressed when Doji Saori was corrupted deliberately by a Shadowlands player playing Crane but lived with it as that player deserved the pick regardless as to their reasons. Live your life and own your decisions. Trying to complain about other peoples will get you nowhere.

I just want to point out that the claim about Saori getting corrupted by a Shadowlands player is incorrect. LeAnn always played Crane, and I don't think I ever saw her playing Shadowlands.  She wanted to corrupt Saori.

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1 hour ago, Reins Vengard said:

No it doesn't. Expect the exact people who went to this worlds to be the same who go to the next. My argument is an entire playerbase shouldn't be beholden to 7 out of the 300 people who go to this thing. This does;t incentive people to play better it disincentives people to not play the game at all.

If you don't want the playerbase to be subject to the people winning events, then maybe a game where the winners choose story and card effects isn't for you.

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4 minutes ago, franzvong said:

So, what about simply removing the roles, and all seeker/keeper cards from the pool? Would this be a solution from your point of view? It's a serious question to understand where the problem lies for you and other players with the same view

Roles are fine. Restricting clans to 1 role per year (2 after gen con) because of some lame prize is silly. And I'm not gonna bother relisting my issues they're already documented.

Now feel free to tear apart my argument with conjecture and tell me to quit or deal with. I have more pressing matter to attend to in the next few hours..

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1 hour ago, SideshowLucifer said:

I seem to remember past events eliminating entire clans before.

The point was that the roles are minor compared to some choices that were made in the ccg.

Please elaborate on what event eliminated an entire clan.  The only "elimination" I remember resulted in the clans still being playable, removed in story only, and having a greater role later because of it.

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As a scorpion player I could really care less about losing out on Backhanded Compliment, what I do care about is the precedent that this sets (again) when a few players make choices for an entire clan. There was already negativity over having Roles determined for each clan by bigger tournament's winners and now they have made that theory a reality. This is very likely going to have a community impact where many tournament fairing players will now look into ways of making decisions that the some other clan's community don't want. Sure, it was their choice, and nothing can be done about it, but kharma is a fickle mistress, and it's probably safe to say that this just set the bar on what actions winners will now take. Let the chaos begin.

Edited by Silverfox13

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59 minutes ago, Shinjo Dun said:

Please elaborate on what event eliminated an entire clan.  The only "elimination" I remember resulted in the clans still being playable, removed in story only, and having a greater role later because of it.

I was speaking of great clan status. I remember Scorpion after the coupe and Dragon was potentially on the block in race for the throne. Instead the results ended with spider getting eliminated and aeg went back on it.

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5 minutes ago, SideshowLucifer said:

I was speaking of great clan status. I remember Scorpion after the coupe and Dragon was potentially on the block in race for the throne. Instead the results ended with spider getting eliminated and aeg went back on it.

Incorrect.

While AEG certainly screwed up more than enough to result in lawn darting their own IP...

They did not "go back on" this particular choice. It was just poorly though out for the faction that ended up going through it.

The metric for the Race that might have eliminated the Dragon and ended up nuking the Spider stated, yes, that the clan would "lose its Great Clan Status." However, there was always the caveat that the faction so affected would then get a special storyline dedicated to seeing if they could regain that status. The problem was, the Spider had never been a "real" Great Clan, and therefore, it played out differently than it would have for literally anyone else, with the "loss" meaning not a **** of a lot (yes, yes, the Shinomen forest stronghold had to be burned, yeah, yeah, everybody suddenly knew the Spider were Bad Guys... please).

Scorpion after the Coup were not rendered unplayable, because the Coup had happened before the game even began. They did, however, take a brief stroll to launch LBS during the whole Hidden Emperor debacle, but that was not event-driven.

 

Much like the incipient extermination of the Mantis that AEG had on its horizon, it was not an event-driven story, but a mandate handed down from the Brand arm of things.

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7 minutes ago, SideshowLucifer said:

I was speaking of great clan status. I remember Scorpion after the coupe and Dragon was potentially on the block in race for the throne. Instead the results ended with spider getting eliminated and aeg went back on it.

So you literally don't know what you're talking about.  The Scorpion Clan Coup and them being removed from the game wasn't due to a player decision, that's literally how the game started - with 6 great clans.  The first Scorpion stronghold (The Ruined Fortress of the Scorpion) was in Shadowlands, the first expansion.  Not a player choice.  Two years later, when the story and game did a flashback, and the actual Scorpion Clan Coup set was released, the Scorpion Clan continued to get cards printed as normal.  I guess you could be actually referring to when Toturi exiled the Scorpion, however that wasn't a player choice or storyline result either.

 

The Spider, as noted, continued to function as a clan in game, and ended up with a better story because of it.  That's basically what AEG had said beforehand would happen to whomever lost that mega-game.

 

In none of these situations was a clan removed from playability due to an event.

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13 minutes ago, Shinjo Dun said:

In none of these situations was a clan removed from playability due to an event.

Factions came and went, still not by event results.  Naga, Toturi's Army, Brotherhood, Ninja, Spirits, Ratling, LTP Ronin, etc.  No Great Clans were ever removed from the game............at least until Kanpeki went on a 'snapping suckas like twigs" spree and did away with all the clans.  At least that's how I like to think things ended.

Edited by Ishi Tonu

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1 hour ago, Shinjo Dun said:

So you literally don't know what you're talking about.  The Scorpion Clan Coup and them being removed from the game wasn't due to a player decision, that's literally how the game started - with 6 great clans.  The first Scorpion stronghold (The Ruined Fortress of the Scorpion) was in Shadowlands, the first expansion.  Not a player choice.  Two years later, when the story and game did a flashback, and the actual Scorpion Clan Coup set was released, the Scorpion Clan continued to get cards printed as normal.  I guess you could be actually referring to when Toturi exiled the Scorpion, however that wasn't a player choice or storyline result either.

 

The Spider, as noted, continued to function as a clan in game, and ended up with a better story because of it.  That's basically what AEG had said beforehand would happen to whomever lost that mega-game.

 

In none of these situations was a clan removed from playability due to an event.

It's almost like you didn't read my post. ?

I corrected my initial post to say great clan status rather than non-playable. I couldn't remember the events around the scorpion exile, it has been awhile, but I do remember race for the throne and the outrage surrounding it. We did a lot of work as Dragon to not lose our status.

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I apologize if this has already been pointed out, and am even reluctant to "add fuel to the fire" but Northern Wall Sensei, a Dragon Clan dynasty card really has been made worthless/unusable for a year's time (at least in sanctioned play) because of the Clan Role selection process.  To me, this does show a flaw in the system. Does it mean the system needs to be scrapped? Probably not.  But the card designers certainly should be more careful with how they design cards with these types of restrictions. Had the Crab Clan not chosen a keeper role, the same would be true for Crisis Breaker. 

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12 minutes ago, HirumaShigure said:

I apologize if this has already been pointed out, and am even reluctant to "add fuel to the fire" but Northern Wall Sensei, a Dragon Clan dynasty card really has been made worthless/unusable for a year's time (at least in sanctioned play) because of the Clan Role selection process.  To me, this does show a flaw in the system. Does it mean the system needs to be scrapped? Probably not.  But the card designers certainly should be more careful with how they design cards with these types of restrictions. Had the Crab Clan not chosen a keeper role, the same would be true for Crisis Breaker. 

How's it a flaw? The devs know how the rules work, either the Stone or the Sensei would be illegal for a year's time either way. Sure the Sensei is a Dynasty card, so no one can use it, but again, the devs know the rules to their own game. If each clan only got a Keeper or Seeker card and not both, then there'd be an issue, but since there's a legal option for both roles, no problem.

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The Stone could be splashed by other clans.  Just my opinion, the flaw is that we're being sold 3x of a card that can't be used by ANYBODY for a year's time, sticking to the strictest interpretation of the rules. Again,  just my opinion, the Sensei and Crisis Breaker should have been conflict characters to ensure they have the opportunity of seeing the light of day. What happens if dragon chooses a seeker role again next year? The Sensei stays in the box a second year! (Unless I'm wrong and each year it has to flip from seeker to keeper or vice versa.) I'm a casual player, so if I'll use the Sensei if I want to unless I self impose the Seeker Role restriction upon myself. It just seems off that a card could be made completely useless in official tournaments for that length of time. 

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Again, the devs know the rules. Arguably the fact that Northern Wall Sensei and Crisis Breaker exist means they're comfortable with the idea that they may never see play. I expect someone will eventually switch the roles to make them legal at some point, and Winter Court next year will have secondary roles for every clan. 

And Wandering Ronin exists, so there's more proof that the devs will print a card that will never leave the box.

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Just now, Daigotsu Bakunin said:

Again, the devs know the rules. Arguably the fact that Northern Wall Sensei and Crisis Breaker exist means they're comfortable with the idea that they may never see play. I expect someone will eventually switch the roles to make them legal at some point, and Winter Court next year will have secondary roles for every clan. 

And Wandering Ronin exists, so there's more proof that the devs will print a card that will never leave the box.

Yeah I really think you're giving them too much credit.

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