Jump to content
ElSuave

New Clan Roles + Story Decision

Recommended Posts

Its funny that while everyone was thinking about Keepers, the 3 of the top 4 clans choose Seeker roles. I wonder how will that play out. 

 

 

Edit: Also smart choice by the Lion player to take Justice.

Edited by blackheartz

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, blackheartz said:

Its funny that while everyone was thinking about Keepers, the 3 of the top 4 clans choose Seeker roles. I wonder how will that play out. 

 

 

Edit: Also smart choice by the Lion player to take Justice.

I don’t really know what to make of Crane’s pick other than maybe he’s banking on there being better cards for the seeker role in later expansion cycles this year?  Dragon makes sense as their clan province is fire and this allows them a second fire province to get them more fate and put up a potential defense where all 4 non-stronghold provinces have repeatable actions.  We know why Scorpion picked the way they did.......lol

I hope the Crane player speaks up about his seeker choice as that one has me a little stumped.  Other than that it seems like keeper was generally the preferred pick a rightfully so.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
20 minutes ago, Ishi Tonu said:

I don’t really know what to make of Crane’s pick other than maybe he’s banking on there being better cards for the seeker role in later expansion cycles this year?  Dragon makes sense as their clan province is fire and this allows them a second fire province to get them more fate and put up a potential defense where all 4 non-stronghold provinces have repeatable actions.  We know why Scorpion picked the way they did.......lol

I hope the Crane player speaks up about his seeker choice as that one has me a little stumped.  Other than that it seems like keeper was generally the preferred pick a rightfully so.

 

Pretty sure that your assumptions are wrong. Crane prefered choice was KoF, but the second one was strangly SoA. SoA was chosen, because they think that getting a ressource advantage with Seeker and the two air provinces and the ability to cycle cards with Test of Skill (and maybe Perfect Gift) and the insane combo poential of Yoshi is edging most of the other choices out. SoF was chosen by Dragon because of the Stone of Sorrows and Feast or Famine.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Ishi Tonu said:

This would almost seem like a valid complaint if the world champ wasn't from France.

If you don't want somone else deciding the fate of "your" clan, then prove your dedication by showing up and being the top player for "your" clan.

The difference is that the french player was reasonable and picked the best role. Telling everyone that a card is broken without the knowledge of the whole set is very strange to me.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
24 minutes ago, Ignithas said:

Pretty sure that your assumptions are wrong. Crane prefered choice was KoF, but the second one was strangly SoA. SoA was chosen, because they think that getting a ressource advantage with Seeker and the two air provinces and the ability to cycle cards with Test of Skill (and maybe Perfect Gift) and the insane combo poential of Yoshi is edging most of the other choices out. SoF was chosen by Dragon because of the Stone of Sorrows and Feast or Famine.

There is no denying the resource advantage that SoA can create, however I remain unconvinced those are the provinces that provide you the best chance at winning.....let alone passing on the chance to play Disdainful Remark, and potentially Backhanded Complement, being the best option for Crane.

I haven't seen Feast or Famine anywhere, link? Stone of Sorrows is certainly a nice boost and an added bonus to being able to run Restoration of Balance along with Meditations and get some fate advantage for those attachments

Edited by Ishi Tonu

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, Ishi Tonu said:

There is no denying the resource advantage that SoA can create, however I remain unconvinced those are the provinces that provide you the best chance at winning.....let alone passing on the chance to play Disdainful Remark and potentially Backhanded Complement if you want to continue Scorpion splashing in Crane.

I haven't seen Feast or Famine anywhere, link? Stone of Sorrows is certainly a nice boost and an added bonus to being able to run Restoration of Balance along with Meditations and get some fate advantage for those attachments

I also don't think that SoA was the right choice, but the Crane players in the discord group wrote that. Feast or Famine is the leaked fire province, that needs a fire role to be played. This is also the reason why Lion picked Keeper of Fire. I don't know if we are allowed to link to leaks.

Edited by Ignithas

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
21 minutes ago, Ignithas said:

The difference is that the french player was reasonable and picked the best role. Telling everyone that a card is broken without the knowledge of the whole set is very strange to me.

Seems like a classic "bird in the hand....." choice to me.  None of us know what the next cycle will look like but we do know all the keeper/seeker specific cards of the first cycle.  

One can only make what they feel is the best choice based on what they know.  I am thankful for the choice they made.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, Ishi Tonu said:

Seems like a classic "bird in the hand....." choice to me.  None of us know what the next cycle will look like but we do know all the keeper/seeker specific cards of the first cycle.  

One can only make what they feel is the best choice based on what they know.  I am thankful for the choice they made.  

I don't think that this was a bird in the hand choice at all. A "bird in the hand" choice is choosing something good that is certain instead of something that could be better, but is uncertain. The scorpion player thought that Backhanded Compliment is broken and chose to pick a worse role to not break the game.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 minutes ago, Ignithas said:

I also don't think that SoA was the right choice, but the Crane players in the discord group wrote that. Feast or Famine is the leaked fire province, that needs a fire role to be played. This is also the reason why Lion picked Keeper of Fire. I don't know if we are allowed to link to leaks.

Well if there is another good fire province then that would be the reason for Dragon to make the SoF choice.  I don't think SOS was worth the seeker pick.  I already thought Meditations and RoB were enough to justify a SoF pick.  Of the leaked fire province is good too then that's just affirming my assumption on the Dragon pick.

I don't follow discord.  I was not aware that Crane collectively decided on SoA.  I find it rather shocking that Crane would pick SoA for the reasons you pointed out......but again, glad they did, as I'd rather not have to face them with DR in their arsenal

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 minutes ago, Ignithas said:

I don't think that this was a bird in the hand choice at all. A "bird in the hand" choice is choosing something good that is certain instead of something that could be better, but is uncertain. The scorpion player thought that Backhanded Compliment is broken and chose to pick a worse role to not break the game.

His "good" was avoiding immediate imbalance in the game when he had a choice to do something about it.......instead of waiting and hoping the next batch of cards would resolve it on its own.  We don't know when the second cycle or deluxe expansions are even coming, let alone what they will have.  If his priority was choosing the best cards for his clan then no it would not be a good choice.....but that was not the motivation behind the choice.

He wanted to prevent a NPE for the foreseeable future and thus made a good choice to get the desired outcome while he had the power to do so.  Bird in the hand.

Edited by Ishi Tonu

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm a scorpion player, and from a personal view I do not agree with the decision made  though I completely support and admire the reasons why the decision was made. I don't think back handed compliment will break the game, and I really wanted the extra 3 influence afforded by a keeper role, but frankly the bravery required to make such a bold and it seems unpopular choice to do something you feel will benefit all players of the game makes me proud to be scorpion :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I have no issues whatsoever with the Scorpion choice made, and I totally respect the winner's right to make that choice (personally I'm happy to be able to play Pilgrimage and Shameful Display together :lol:).

That said, I think the assumption that this one card, Backhanded Compliment, was going to wreck the field and create this NPE issue is... a lil Chicken Little-y?

Historically, people just hate on Dishonor for no reason other than sour grapes ("you made me lose instead of just winning... and that's somehow bad and wrong!" ... uh....)
When "attack-style" decks (Military of ye olden days, Mil/Pol of today) get crazy imbalanced good, well that's just how the meta works out sometimes. No biggie. It'll eventually rotate out.
When "political" decks do it, it's the end of the world, people stop having fun, puppies everywhere are kicked... And Scorpion isn't dominating the field or anything, so the idea that this one extra card was gonna wildly swing the meta? C'mon... :rolleyes:


Again, happy with the choice! But the reasoning behind it is just, say, silly.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Ishi Tonu said:

His "good" was avoiding immediate imbalance in the game when he had a choice to do something about it.......instead of waiting and hoping the next batch of cards would resolve it on its own.  We don't know when the second cycle or deluxe expansions are even coming, let alone what they will have.  If his priority was choosing the best cards for his clan then no it would not be a good choice.....but that was not the motivation behind the choice.

He wanted to prevent a NPE for the foreseeable future and thus made a good choice to get the desired outcome while he had the power to do so.  Bird in the hand.

I also don't have anything against the pick, because I am not a clan loyalist and if Scorpion (which I wanted to play in the tournament season) is bad, I simply switch the clan. But I fully understand if Scorpion loyalists are mad because of it and want to let off steam on social media.

Edit: I am a little bit proud of myself, because when they revealed the role system I said that this could easily happen and was called out for it.

Edited by Ignithas

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
23 minutes ago, Bayushi Tsubaki said:

I have no issues whatsoever with the Scorpion choice made, and I totally respect the winner's right to make that choice (personally I'm happy to be able to play Pilgrimage and Shameful Display together :lol:).

That said, I think the assumption that this one card, Backhanded Compliment, was going to wreck the field and create this NPE issue is... a lil Chicken Little-y?

Historically, people just hate on Dishonor for no reason other than sour grapes ("you made me lose instead of just winning... and that's somehow bad and wrong!" ... uh....)
When "attack-style" decks (Military of ye olden days, Mil/Pol of today) get crazy imbalanced good, well that's just how the meta works out sometimes. No biggie. It'll eventually rotate out.
When "political" decks do it, it's the end of the world, people stop having fun, puppies everywhere are kicked... And Scorpion isn't dominating the field or anything, so the idea that this one extra card was gonna wildly swing the meta? C'mon... :rolleyes:


Again, happy with the choice! But the reasoning behind it is just, say, silly.

I agree. It’s absolutely a silly choice and completely based on assuming (with limited experience and information) that you know better than the design team and play testers. 

On the other hand, he’s the guy that won, so it’s completely within his rights to do what he wants. After all, it is generating a lot of drama/attention. 

Meanwhile I look forward to using it in Crab and Phoenix control/dishonor builds.

Edited by Oshio

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 hours ago, Hinomura said:

I dedicated the pick to Brad Emon. His reasoning behind not wanting Keeper was a genuine desire to keep the game fun and thriving, and Backhand had the potential to really destroy people's will to play.

Brad was totally willing to embrace being a villain to make this happen, and I have nothing but respect for that.

If there are Scorpion players who aren't willing to be villains, then this may not be the clan for you. 

If people wanted a different choice, they had the opportunity to beat out Brad and myself. We finished first and second placed Scorpions at Worlds. I reckon we earned the right to make this choice.

Thank you for sharing. I really appreciate it.

Obviously I do not agree with this decison, but it is good to know the reasoning behind it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This is awesome.  I watched a couple games, top 16 and top 8 I think it was.  Not expecting much.  I don't play this game was curious.  And I really enjoyed watching the games.  The commentators did good job.

I like the clan loyalty stuff, the story driven by tournament winners etc.  Don't understand it all granted this keeper stuff and what not.  I also enjoy the debate about the player sabatoging a clan as a decision for the game.  The player involvement in development of the game is really cool.

Temps the **** out of me to pick up a copy and try it.

congrats on what I think was a successful worlds!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Ignithas said:

I also don't have anything against the pick, because I am not a clan loyalist and if Scorpion (which I wanted to play in the tournament season) is bad, I simply switch the clan. But I fully understand if Scorpion loyalists are mad because of it and want to let off steam on social media.

Edit: I am a little bit proud of myself, because when they revealed the role system I said that this could easily happen and was called out for it.

I fully understand if clan loyalists are mad and agree that they have every right to be.  I've never said anything to the contrary.  I'm just....proud, and somewhat reassured to know that there are players willing to do this sort of thing.

Sure there are plenty of people that simply see this as one guy trying to screw over another clan.  His motives seem on the level to me so I commend him for his efforts to do what he felt was best for the game as a whole when presented with such an opportunity.  Players generally don't have any say in what their game environment will be like at the competitive level.  It seems like many people would rather just pick what is strongest and then wait to see if it needs bans and/or errata later on.......meanwhile they will take there free time on easymode.

I've lived through enough of that to see what kind of fall out occurs when the game is out of balance.  I don't really know what we'll see because of this, but, I imagine this ends up being better than having to sit through a whole season of an oppressive deck dominating the meta and endless streams of posts calling for bans and/or errata.  

 

Edited by Ishi Tonu

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 hours ago, Etaywah said:

Also alternatively as a keeper of fire, you can trigger an incoming ring with Show of Power and claim the ring, setting off the keeper role, triggering your keepers then triggering the ring immediately afterwards. Doing so allows you to use the triggered ring on a keeper initiate since the trigger fires after the claim fires - this would mean getting a 3/3 with a fate on it for 1 fate/1 honor with a fire ring.

Technically, Show of Power doesn't set off the keeper role, you still lost the conflict. Technically, because this doesn't change anything in the scenario mentioned. But that's irrelevant, since the Keeper of Fire was chosen by Lion earlier.

And, yeah. I don't understand either why the Keeper of Void wasn't chosen. Not only because of Isawa Atsuko/Elemental Fury for defense, there's also Isawa Kaede coming up, so you could put Initiates into play from any conflict won by him while attacking, no matter the element.

The only thing that Keeper of Water matches in current and spoiled cards is Adept of the Waves, for the easier win in Water and putting Initiates into play. But, even the Keeper of Air would be a better choice - like Isawa Kaede with Void, the Seeker of Knowledge would allow you to put Initiates into play from any won conflict while attacking and there's also the Fearsome Mystic (while she doesn't help you to win a conflict, along with the Keeper role she would further discourage any dishonor deck from choosing to attack you with Air).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 hours ago, shosuko said:

I don't.  Seeker role again?  Seeker is the worst role and we had that already.  Time to suck at playing Scorpion, or jump clans to Crab so I can actually play the Scorpion play-style...  this choice was garbage.

Crab welcomes you with open arms.  Good lord Crab is gonna have a real good card pool for dishonor now.  Now if only we had more Courtiers for Forged Edict and we'd be in business.  Why is Taka not a Courtier!

Add: Imagine if we had 2 or 3 more Courtiers.  Crab splashing Scorpion could run Forge Edict, Backhanded Compliment, Calling In Favors, Levy, Watch Commander and run For Shame.  Would be real legit.

Edited by phillos

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, phillos said:

Crab welcomes you with open arms.  Good lord Crab is gonna have a real good card pool for dishonor now.  Now if only we had more Courtiers for Forged Edict and we'd be in business.

Got room for another on that wall?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


×
×
  • Create New...