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Thweek mimicking a docked ship

15 posts in this topic

Docking occurs pregame during squad building, thweek happens after that point right before place forces. The docking rules say "docked ships are considered inactive for all purposes" so no you can't do anything to it if it's docked. They made that rule rather broad and future proofed it with that phrasing I figure. 

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1 hour ago, Smitty said:

Docking occurs pregame during squad building, thweek happens after that point right before place forces. The docking rules say "docked ships are considered inactive for all purposes" so no you can't do anything to it if it's docked. They made that rule rather broad and future proofed it with that phrasing I figure. 

Wrong.

During setup, before the "Place Forces" step, you may choose 1 enemy ship and assign the "Shadowed" or "Mimicked" Condition card to it.”

The part I emphasized in bold means Thweek is resolved before any ships go onto the field or dock, if applicable.

You can pick any ship in the enemy list.

Edited by jmswood
StephenEsven likes this

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I made my first reply based on the logic that Squad Building is inherently part of setup. Now I have a follow-up question, that I don’t believe is covered by the rules.

If a Thweek condition is assigned to a ship that will be docked, does “inactive for all purposes” mean the condition has no effect on Thweek until the ship is not docked?

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jmswood I disagree. Though it seems you see my reasoning now? Adding the docked ship rules for clarity here. You dock your ship pregame. Place forces is part of the game not pregame. However, even if it wasn't pregame it would still be prior to Thweek, the setup phase has its order of operations as well and Place Forces is step 5 while Gather Forces, the logical place for squad building to occur since it would need to occur prior to physically putting components on the table, is step 1 and definitely need to occur before step 2 where you determine initiative. 

 

As a side note to this, something I never really considered. But technically shouldn't the opponent be forced to declare dock/not dock before seeing my list at all in a tournament since they should be deciding that beforehand and not be able to alter it later? I've never really thought about it but by a strict reading on the docked rules it is a part of the squadron list and therefor should not be a per-game decision in a tournament setting. (Sorry for the derail, just something I'm now pondering)

dock.jpg

Edited by Smitty
further rambling
Gilarius likes this

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@Smitty My initial thoughts on this topic excluded consideration for the way tournaments work. A squad must be built before the event starts. I also neglected to double-check the rules for setup.

I’ve seen games where the Ghost player decided during setup to not dock the shuttle because in a particular matchup, it made more sense to have another ship in play immediately. Taking a second look at this, I’m pretty sure that practice goes against the rules and the Ghost title. Docking the Phantom with the Ghost is not a “may” effect, meaning it’s mandatory. Gozanti docking clamps are a “may” effect, but the rules again specify that option must be exercised during squad building.

Moving on to the primary reason I’m changing my position: The “Setup” rule in the Rules Reference. The first step is Gather Forces, which says, “The players reveal their squads...” Meaning Squad Building must have been completed before Setup in any play setting, casual or competitive. There are three steps of Setup before Place Forces. Thweek could happen during any of those steps, but Squad Building is already done, therefore docked ships are not vaild targets. 

That’s the RAW, but I don’t like it. Card abilities should not have any effect until a game (any game, not just X-wing) is actially happening. I think there is grounds for an errata here to make docking part of Place Forces. Nothing should take effect before the first step of the game, which in the case of X-wing is Gather Forces. 

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5 hours ago, jmswood said:

I have one other gripe. I’ve said it before, and I’ll keep saying it until it happens. 

Not everyone buys every expansion. Rule inserts need to be publicly available as PDF’s like any other rule document. 

I'll second that!!

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I'm on the side of "Can mimic a docked ship"... as per new FAQ - Condition cards don't get removed from destroyed ships unless specifically mentioned on the card.  

the existance of the ship on the battlefield (inactive/docked/destroyed etc) is therefore redundant to thweeks ability/condition card for mimic

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On 11/4/2017 at 8:17 AM, jmswood said:

Not everyone buys every expansion. Rule inserts need to be publicly available as PDF’s like any other rule document. 

Agreed.

Why don't they just update the freakin' Rules Reference document already?

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On 11/4/2017 at 10:11 PM, ThisIsDavin said:

I'm on the side of "Can mimic a docked ship"... as per new FAQ - Condition cards don't get removed from destroyed ships unless specifically mentioned on the card.  

the existance of the ship on the battlefield (inactive/docked/destroyed etc) is therefore redundant to thweeks ability/condition card for mimic

I don't see how that follows. That change prevents the removal due to destruction. It has no bearing at all to applying the card in the first place and the docked rules are pretty clear the ship isn't a valid target for anything.

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On 11/6/2017 at 11:36 PM, Smitty said:

I don't see how that follows. That change prevents the removal due to destruction. It has no bearing at all to applying the card in the first place and the docked rules are pretty clear the ship isn't a valid target for anything.

Is a Destroyed Ship a valid target for anything?

If no... then why can you still possess a mimic'd ability from that ship?

Edited by ThisIsDavin

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3 hours ago, ThisIsDavin said:

Is a Destroyed Ship a valid target for anything?

If no... then why can you still possess a mimic'd ability from that ship?

Because you only target the ship at the start of the game and as the new FAQ clearly states conditions on destroyed ships are not removed when the ship is destroyed unless it specifically says so.

 

On 05/11/2017 at 4:17 AM, jmswood said:

I have one other gripe. I’ve said it before, and I’ll keep saying it until it happens. 

Not everyone buys every expansion. Rule inserts need to be publicly available as PDF’s like any other rule document. 

Fun fact, the rules for docked ships were actually in the FAQ Version 320, version 321 & version 322, but for some reason they was removed again shortly thereafter.

 

As for the OPs question, baring an official clarification, because conditions are assigned, and that docked ships can't be assigned tokens it seems that Thweek can't target a docked ship. Having said that Agent Kallus is an almost identical timing trigger effect but was released prior to condition cards and docked ships would be perfectly fine to be chosen by Kallus.

Remember docked ships are simply inactive, not invisible

Edited by Mace Windu

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