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Magnus Grendel

When is a Duel not a Duel? When It's a Clash.

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Sounds like the start of a bad joke, I know.

  • A clash is a one-round 'Duel' occuring within a Skirmish or Mass Battle. 
  • The start and end of a Clash is definitely not the end of a scene (in fact it has its own specific strife-recovery rules different to the end of scene ones)
  • Does the Clash count as occuring within a Duel 'scene' or a Skirmish/Mass Battle?
    • This is relevant for a few abilities which explicitely namecheck what kind of scene they can be used in.
    • If the Clash counts as a 'potted duel scene', for example, an Akodo Commander cannot use Way Of The Lion
    • If it counts as a sub-element of the Skirmish/Mass Battle, they can.
    • Given that Way Of The Lion is an extremely powerful ability (but instead restricted when you can apply it) rather than the less awesome but more universal abilities like Way of the Crane, this is important.

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From what I read the entirety of the clash should take place between then end of the round issued and the start of the next one with the only additional mechanics being used being strife wager and finishing blows.

That said the only details on the specific of the duration of the clash and whether only one cycle of strife wager takes place is unclear.

"Determine Winner: If both characters are still standing at end of 
the clash, there is no winner, and both withdraw to fight another 
day. If one character inflicts the Incapacitated, Unconscious, or 
Dying condition on their enemy (or kills them outright) without 
suffering any of these, they are victorious in the clash."

The fa t that it says its possible for both characters to still be standing leads me to believe its just a one turn exchange and within the skirmish since its gives nothing to suggest it would adopt other rules or traits of a duel.

I also assume that on the 1st to act in their clash they are able to change stance?  Even if its the person who made the challenge initially givong them a possible 2nd turn.

Lastly since the challenge can be made from any distance from 0-5 range bands does that mean the challengers initiate the fight at yhe distance from where they started? 

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A Clash is a duel. But since they tought that their written duel was a ritualized combat (Its not.) They made the distinction(with no mechanical difference, because its not ritualized). So answering your question, yes Lions tremble when someone ask them to 1x1.

On the more specific part of changing scenes and deal with strife. I would rule that is the same scene, but that two guys are special and they use different rules of the system, instead of 1x1 in a skirmish like any other game would do. Stupid on my opinion, but it is what it is.

About the clash being a "one turn duel"

Here comes what makes sense:
"duel does not last a fixed number of rounds. At the end of each round, if either character achieved their objective, the duel ends and proceeds to Phase 3: Resolution.
Otherwise, the duel returns to Phase 2:Perform Actions and continues for an additional round."

one round of duel becomes several.

Honestly if that its not RAW or RAI, I still would make Clashes go forever until someone interferes,withdraw or win.

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11 minutes ago, Mobiusllls said:

A Clash is a duel. But since they tought that their written duel was a ritualized combat (Its not.) They made the distinction(with no mechanical difference, because its not ritualized). So answering your question, yes Lions tremble when someone ask them to 1x1.

On the more specific part of changing scenes and deal with strife. I would rule that is the same scene, but that two guys are special and they use different rules of the system, instead of 1x1 in a skirmish like any other game would do. Stupid on my opinion, but it is what it is.

About the clash being a "one turn duel"

Here comes what makes sense:
"duel does not last a fixed number of rounds. At the end of each round, if either character achieved their objective, the duel ends and proceeds to Phase 3: Resolution.
Otherwise, the duel returns to Phase 2:Perform Actions and continues for an additional round."

one round of duel becomes several.

Honestly if that its not RAW or RAI, I still would make Clashes go forever until someone interferes,withdraw or win.

I disagree with nearly all of this:

  • The language of the sidebar implies that the characters aren't technically in a duel (Otherwise they'd just saying the characters are in a duel as opposed to explicitly listing the steps that happen in a clash and wouldn't bother with the word "effectively")
  • Given that the Clash occurs "during a skirmish or mass battle" Way of the Lion could still trigger even if it was technically a duel
  • The clash sidebar explicitly states "one round" and lists in step 4 that not having a winner is a possibility, there's no reason to suspect that the rules intention is for them to continue over multiple rounds.

That said I do agree that it would make more sense if clashes didn't just last for one round. You can just say that The two characters continue clashing and skip over them in turn order then do another round of the clash (or if a character withdraws from the clash they forfeit their stake and get to act in that round).

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