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SpartanWarrior7

Clone Wars Era for Armada

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Well I see a fundamental problem with CW stuff. PT are not the best movies. Da mouse may be trying to bury them, to reboot them at a later point..... It is now well within their right to do so. Im thinking Spiderman kinda here. It would fit in, they killed the clone wars show, they abolished the old eu, so why not work their way to a PT reboot after they've buried for a sufficient amount of time.

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5 minutes ago, Noosh said:

Well I see a fundamental problem with CW stuff. PT are not the best movies. Da mouse may be trying to bury them, to reboot them at a later point..... It is now well within their right to do so. Im thinking Spiderman kinda here. It would fit in, they killed the clone wars show, they abolished the old eu, so why not work their way to a PT reboot after they've buried for a sufficient amount of time.

I've been kind of getting this vibe from them.  Honestly, it wouldn't be a bad move.  Classify the old PT as EU and reboot it.  They have done their best to avoid almost any mention of PT material since the Mouse gained control.  And honestly, I'm ok with that.

Even the people that don't care for the PT, the tech wasn't bad.  The ships, the vehicles, etc were all very cool and well done.  But when you bring that stuff into a game, you re-open all the old conversations about the PT.  When you do that, people start getting a bad vibe while talking star wars.  Not something Disney wants.

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On the other hand, Battlefront II has PT assets.

Disney does what is best for its pockets. There are a lot of kids who grew up with the prequels who are in their 20’s and 30’s and have more money in their pockets. Don’t be surprised that the PT era gets more love in the coming years.

Edited by GrandAdmiralCrunch

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Yeah, i certainly can’t line up a few Gozanti and Arquitens across from a Pelta with CR90s and Hammerheads and get an odd clone wars vibe. 

 

Yeah, squads are missing, but we aren’t too far off. Kind of makes me want to see the CW era Ywing with speed 3, 7 hull, bomber, heavy, and counter 1

 

Seriously though, I just want a Venator/Rebel One for Wave 8 and the we have CW era covered enough for me. I don’t see a need for a separate game for CIS vs Republic. Though I wouldn’t really complain. 

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Will this Han Solo movie take place during the prequel era or will it be set after the clone wars but before rogue one?  He looks awful young for it to be too close to rogue one so I assume it’s gotta be closer to the prequel era.

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Han was born 29 BBY.  Ep3 took place 19 BBY.  EP4 is 0 BBY.  The end of Rogue one rolls directly into Ep4, so it too occurs in 0 BBY.  Han would have been 29 in Ep4.

Rebels starts off 5 BBY. 

From what I'm seeing, Han's movie starts off when he is 18. or 11 BBY.  So 6 years before Rebels, and 11 years prior to Rogue One/Ep 4, but 8 years after the events of Ep 3.

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4 hours ago, kmanweiss said:

I've been kind of getting this vibe from them.  Honestly, it wouldn't be a bad move.  Classify the old PT as EU and reboot it.  They have done their best to avoid almost any mention of PT material since the Mouse gained control.  And honestly, I'm ok with that.

Even the people that don't care for the PT, the tech wasn't bad.  The ships, the vehicles, etc were all very cool and well done.  But when you bring that stuff into a game, you re-open all the old conversations about the PT.  When you do that, people start getting a bad vibe while talking star wars.  Not something Disney wants.

It would be a horrific move!! If Disney tried to "re-do" a Star Wars movie, especially the PT, I'd probably lose most of my interest in the franchise. It's time for the PT haters to make room for those who love the PT.

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So the big question of clone wars and insurgency era (because both 1st order and resistance are insurgent groups) is will the ships be merged into a faction or be a part of their own faction. Me personally I would like to see more than two factions as it cuts down on the mirrors but again with the release of legion I would also like to see a way of combining the ground and space combats into one grand 4x strategy.

But for discussion sake lets just say that the 4 factions from the other eras are added into Armada. With Rebel Alliance and Galactic Empire having such a head start there has to be a way of bringing the other factions in with out leaving them too locked-up in terms of selection until they are over-corrected into dominance (look at Scum in X-wing).  One way is to do primary factions until there is enough to do a soft split. The other is have some sort of alliance system. I set up a wheel basically a faction can ally with one adjacent faction.

91gklx.png

So Republic to Empire and Republic to Alliance are no brainers, also both Alliance and Resistance and Empire and Order are easy enough. The biggest question is what about CIS so I put it in between Resistance and 1st Order. I can Imagine both factions digging around clone war relics in search of something that may tip the balance in their favor.

Edited by Marinealver
auttocorrect replaced clone for cold

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3 minutes ago, Marinealver said:

So the big question of clone wars and insurgency era (because both 1st order and resistance are insurgent groups) is will the ships be merged into a faction or be a part of their own faction. Me personally I would like to see more than two factions as it cuts down on the mirrors but again with the release of legion I would also like to see a way of combining the ground and space combats into one grand 4x strategy.

But for discussion sake lets just say that the 4 factions from the other eras are added into Armada. With Rebel Alliance and Galactic Empire having such a head start there has to be a way of bringing the other factions in with out leaving them too locked-up in terms of selection until they are over-corrected into dominance (look at Scum in X-wing).  One way is to do primary factions until there is enough to do a soft split. The other is have some sort of alliance system. I set up a wheel basically a faction can ally with one adjacent faction.

Armada_Alliance_Wheel.pngArmada_Alliance_Wheel.pngArmada_Alliance_Wheel.png91gklx.png

So Republic to Empire and Republic to Alliance are no brainers, also both Alliance and Resistance and Empire and Order are easy enough. The biggest question is what about CIS so I put it in between Resistance and 1st Order. I can Imagine both factions digging around cold war relics in search of something that may tip the balance in their favor.

CIS—>Rebellion—>Resistance

Republic—>Empire—>First Order

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5 minutes ago, GrandAdmiralCrunch said:

CIS—>Rebellion—>Resistance

Republic—>Empire—>First Order

Not necessarily, after all much of the alliance came from the republic, the Jedi was never part of the CIS, only those that crossed over and became Sith worked for the CIS. 

But yeah it is tricky to place all the into groups because well you have the political standings (unification vs freedom) and then there is also the bland morality spectrum (light side vs dark side).  After all republic ARC-170 were precursor to the Rebellion's X-wing.

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20 minutes ago, Marinealver said:

Not necessarily, after all much of the alliance came from the republic, the Jedi was never part of the CIS, only those that crossed over and became Sith worked for the CIS. 

But yeah it is tricky to place all the into groups because well you have the political standings (unification vs freedom) and then there is also the bland morality spectrum (light side vs dark side).  After all republic ARC-170 were precursor to the Rebellion's X-wing.

If everything is merged into 2 factions like X-Wing, there are practical needs to consider. 

I can see the Empire inheriting all of the Republic’s hardware and using it within the first decade of the founding of the New Order, but I can’t seem them doing the same with the Seperatist’s equipment. I can see the surviving Seperatists continuing to fight, and perhaps being some of the first founders of the nascent Rebellion.

From a practical standpoint you would want both sides to get a fairly equal number of ships from that era. If that’s the case, it would make sense to give the Empire the Republic’s assets, and the Rebellion the Seperatist assets.  

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The big issue is that both the Empire and the Rebellion came from the Republic.  And parts of both also came from the Separatists.

Look at ship designs.  The Republic fighters show design elements of both factions.  Early Jedi Starfighters looked more like Rebel fighters, but later versions started taking on more TIE design elements (cockpit for instance).  The Droid fighters of the separatists share some obvious design elements with TIE fighters however.  Separatists capital ships however appear to be more along the Mon Cal/Rebel design line, while the Republic capital ships are clearly predecessors of the star destroyers.

Now, if we were moving forward to the new trilogy, the path forward is very obvious.  The Resistance joins the Rebels and the First Order joins the Empire obviously.

There are 2 ways to handle this though.  You could develop entirely new factions with new design philosophies.  You release them as part of the existing factions but eventually separate them so they can no longer be used together.  Or you just keep them intertwined forever.

You CAN NOT start 2 new factions and force them to be separate from each other at the start.  They wouldn't be viable factions.  Even if you did a Wave 1 style release, you'd be looking at 2-3 ships per faction and 1 set of fighters.  There is no way this could compete with current builds which have 10-11 ships (after the next wave) and 10 squadron types.  You'd need to hit at least 5 waves of new faction only releases before you could consider splitting the factions.

But we don't really know how things pan out here.  There are two movies yet.  The resistance could very well join back up with the Republic now that the true threat has been revealed.  The Empire might join the First Order as a way to reclaim glory.  The Resistance as it stands in Ep7 didn't have much going for it with rather limited space forces (mostly fighters) so building an entire faction out of them for Armada could be a struggle if they don't get significantly more spacecraft handed to them.  Sure, they have some large ships in Ep8, but its not like they built or bought them, so again, this would lead one to believe that they may rejoin the Republic.

So ultimately, I think our first foray outside of the OT will likely be into the New Trilogy, but simply as extensions of our current factions.

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3 hours ago, JJs Juggernaut said:

It would be a horrific move!! If Disney tried to "re-do" a Star Wars movie, especially the PT, I'd probably lose most of my interest in the franchise. It's time for the PT haters to make room for those who love the PT.

What's to love?

Look, the tech is great.  The droids, the ships, the special effects all wonderful.  The Clone Wars cartoon was absolutely excellent (after like the first season or two).  There isn't much in those areas that should be touched as they are actually well done.

But the PTs sucked.  It's pretty much an objective fact.  There's nothing saying you can't like a bad movie (I like plenty of bad movies), but the PT is just bad.  Plot lines that made little to no sense.  Nonsense characters shoved in as comic relief.  Acting on a level below that of a high school play.  Writing that was worse than the acting.  Long, drawn out, boring scenes that added no real depth to the story.  They literally failed on nearly every mark (except visual and audio) when it comes to movies.  Any basic study of the movies can draw out tons of issues.

Many elements of the movies could be taken as they exist today.  The overall plot is pretty interesting.  The clones and the long con, along with the Jedi's turning from peacekeepers to generals all has some true merit.  But new scripts, new actors, and new directing could go a long ways towards making those movies something to be proud of instead of something to hide in an attic.  I look at all the fear by Star Wars fans when a new movie gets a new director half way through, or has to call everyone back for reshoots, or has some major editing done late in the game...and I can't help but think 'if only someone had stepped up to Lucas and did a few of these things, we might have had some good movies'.

Look, I get it.  Nostalgia is a **** of a drug.  I argued for many years that Ep 6 was the best of the OT.  With maturity came wisdom though and I realized that I was viewing it through a thick lens of nostalgia as it was my intro into the universe at a young age.  Ep6 is good, but not on par with Ep5, or even 4 for that matter.

I got nothing against PT lovers personally, and I'm glad they are fans of the franchise.  One of my children is a big fan of the PT (I haven't let my other two see them).  But the PT films are not good Star Wars movies.  They're not even good movies in general.

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5 minutes ago, kmanweiss said:

What's to love?

Look, the tech is great.  The droids, the ships, the special effects all wonderful.  The Clone Wars cartoon was absolutely excellent (after like the first season or two).  There isn't much in those areas that should be touched as they are actually well done.

But the PTs sucked.  It's pretty much an objective fact.  There's nothing saying you can't like a bad movie (I like plenty of bad movies), but the PT is just bad.  Plot lines that made little to no sense.  Nonsense characters shoved in as comic relief.  Acting on a level below that of a high school play.  Writing that was worse than the acting.  Long, drawn out, boring scenes that added no real depth to the story.  They literally failed on nearly every mark (except visual and audio) when it comes to movies.  Any basic study of the movies can draw out tons of issues.

Many elements of the movies could be taken as they exist today.  The overall plot is pretty interesting.  The clones and the long con, along with the Jedi's turning from peacekeepers to generals all has some true merit.  But new scripts, new actors, and new directing could go a long ways towards making those movies something to be proud of instead of something to hide in an attic.  I look at all the fear by Star Wars fans when a new movie gets a new director half way through, or has to call everyone back for reshoots, or has some major editing done late in the game...and I can't help but think 'if only someone had stepped up to Lucas and did a few of these things, we might have had some good movies'.

Look, I get it.  Nostalgia is a **** of a drug.  I argued for many years that Ep 6 was the best of the OT.  With maturity came wisdom though and I realized that I was viewing it through a thick lens of nostalgia as it was my intro into the universe at a young age.  Ep6 is good, but not on par with Ep5, or even 4 for that matter.

I got nothing against PT lovers personally, and I'm glad they are fans of the franchise.  One of my children is a big fan of the PT (I haven't let my other two see them).  But the PT films are not good Star Wars movies.  They're not even good movies in general.

Its impossible to argue against a personal view....with a personal view.

Its like watching 2 people from different religions argue over which one is right. The argument will never end.

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If they did eventually get around to releasing ships from this era, I would not want the Clone Wars factions to be playable with or against the current factions, likewise for the ST era. The notion of these factions not being viable in the early stages isn't relevant, since any Separatist fleet would be playing against a Republic fleet only, which would be in the same stage of development, and not an Imperial or Rebel one.

 

 

 

Edited by redxavier

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I stand by my original point - yes, there are those of us in our twenties/thirties who are nostalgic for the best of the PT, and who might shell out for Clone Wars merch. But there are one **** of a lot more people who love the OT, and who see the Galactic Civil War as the Star Wars. From a purely business point of view, why go invest time and money producing CW stuff for a small section of your target market, when the larger market is in the OT, and the CW fans will still buy those products? it's not even an especially cynical move from Disney - it's just realistic.

I find this idea that Disney have rejected the PT perplexing: 'Battlefront II' is the most obvious example, but it's far from exclusive. Rebels is a well crafted bridge between the PT and OT, with lots of old tech (a Clone Walker, and even a freaking Separatist battledroid army in one fantastic episode), old characters and themes being brought into the Civil War era. There have been multiple Marvel Comics, some set exclusively in the Clone Wars ('Obi-wan and Anakin', 'Mace Windu', 'Darth Maul'), some spanning the two ('Kanan' and the main series), and some drawing on elements of the prequels ('Darth Vader'). There have been novels, there are ships in X-wing (and Armada if we count the Pelta etc.), there are characters and units in FFG's other games: how cool does that AT-RT unit look for Legion?!

What we're seeing is synthesis: Disney and FFG have realised that the OT remains the most popular era of the franchise, and so are focusing on it alongside their new films, yet in doing so they are still bringing in lots of the best from the prequels, and even from the EU. I think a lot of people are seeing what they want to see: the Big Bad Mouse, coming in and ruining Star Wars with their corporate greed. But if it hadn't been for Disney, how likely is it that Star Wars would have seen the kind of revival it's had? New movies, new games, new stories: some elements, yes, driven by profit, but others labours of love. The Rebels series wouldn't have had the success it's had, been so well written and brilliantly voiced, if Disney hadn't fronted the money and then given the reins to people who love Star Wars.

TL;DR - Let's stop hating on the company that has made games like Armada not just possible, but successful and exciting.

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3 hours ago, GrandAdmiralCrunch said:

If everything is merged into 2 factions like X-Wing, there are practical needs to consider. 

I can see the Empire inheriting all of the Republic’s hardware and using it within the first decade of the founding of the New Order, but I can’t seem them doing the same with the Seperatist’s equipment. I can see the surviving Seperatists continuing to fight, and perhaps being some of the first founders of the nascent Rebellion.

From a practical standpoint you would want both sides to get a fairly equal number of ships from that era. If that’s the case, it would make sense to give the Empire the Republic’s assets, and the Rebellion the Seperatist assets.  

Don't know if you've read 'Rogue One: Catalyst', but it deals with this to an extent: Separatist holdouts still exist in the new Empire, they're used as an excuse by the Empire to seize assets and planets, and some sow the seeds of Rebellion. But not to the extent, I think, that Separatist fleets would form the backbone of the new Rebel Alliance. Bear in mind that the CIS was a puppet of Palpatine; many were driven by greed rather than the dream of freedom, and their values might not fit so neatly with those of the nascent Rebellion.

I'd like to see a Providence or Munificent as a retro-fitted addition to the Rebel fleet: one that wouldn't look too out of place amongst existing designs, that would add to existing factions rather than create new ones, and one that reflected the fact that it's old tech adapted to new purposes. Perhaps lots of hull but relatively lower shields (due to older shield technology), which would make it a new angle for the Rebel roster?

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3 hours ago, kmanweiss said:

What's to love?

Look, the tech is great.  The droids, the ships, the special effects all wonderful.  The Clone Wars cartoon was absolutely excellent (after like the first season or two).  There isn't much in those areas that should be touched as they are actually well done.

But the PTs sucked.  It's pretty much an objective fact.  There's nothing saying you can't like a bad movie (I like plenty of bad movies), but the PT is just bad.  Plot lines that made little to no sense.  Nonsense characters shoved in as comic relief.  Acting on a level below that of a high school play.  Writing that was worse than the acting.  Long, drawn out, boring scenes that added no real depth to the story.  They literally failed on nearly every mark (except visual and audio) when it comes to movies.  Any basic study of the movies can draw out tons of issues.

Many elements of the movies could be taken as they exist today.  The overall plot is pretty interesting.  The clones and the long con, along with the Jedi's turning from peacekeepers to generals all has some true merit.  But new scripts, new actors, and new directing could go a long ways towards making those movies something to be proud of instead of something to hide in an attic.  I look at all the fear by Star Wars fans when a new movie gets a new director half way through, or has to call everyone back for reshoots, or has some major editing done late in the game...and I can't help but think 'if only someone had stepped up to Lucas and did a few of these things, we might have had some good movies'.

Look, I get it.  Nostalgia is a **** of a drug.  I argued for many years that Ep 6 was the best of the OT.  With maturity came wisdom though and I realized that I was viewing it through a thick lens of nostalgia as it was my intro into the universe at a young age.  Ep6 is good, but not on par with Ep5, or even 4 for that matter.

I got nothing against PT lovers personally, and I'm glad they are fans of the franchise.  One of my children is a big fan of the PT (I haven't let my other two see them).  But the PT films are not good Star Wars movies.  They're not even good movies in general.

 *points to envelope labeled "nice things"*

*points at post*

*rips up envelope*

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On 2.11.2017 at 10:07 PM, SpartanWarrior7 said:

Hi everyone,

I am writing to let everyone here know that Fantasy Flight has not made any ships at all from the clone wars era in Armada. That is very offensive and disheartening to me and there are several awesome ships from that era that we are not getting. Is this some sort of licensing agreement from Disney not to make any prequel-era ships. We as a community need to speak out and let Fantasy Flight know what we want, and I really want some Clone Wars ships in this game, because honestly I'm sick of seeing all of these original trilogy ships and its time to put our foot down and say we have had enough original trilogy and that now we need something new. I know there might be licensing agreements that prevent the production of prequel era content but I need everyone to hear me out and try to find a way around it.

ARC-

well, pls speak for yourself. there is no "we", as I am not in the least interested in that era. 

sure it has fans, but for me any original trilogy era ships, including old canon, are preferred by far, as long as that is possible. and there are cross overs anyway, as has been pointed out.

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Lets be realistic for a moment, let the nostalga train pass, and look to the world of tommorow. I am of the firm belief that now with ep 8 about to punch us in the face with new ships. We will more than likely see those before we see PT ships, its the strike while the iorn is hot thought process.

In 2019 i suspect we will have a better chance to see anything not ep8,  even then rebs still dont have thier gun ship or wingless liberty, and imps (fo) look like their getting a welth of new capitol ships. So they may be saving PT ships for when the line up needs new blood to keep things rolling.

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I'd avoid a clone wars spin-off, or anything prequel centric, like the plague, but X-Wing has branched off with new Sequel Trilogy factions, and I'd be all for that version in Armada (and Imperial Assault).

Edited by Arttemis

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