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ElSuave

The Fate of Flames - 2017 World Champion Story Choice (Lion vs. Crane)

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https://www.fantasyflightgames.com/en/news/2017/10/30/the-fate-of-flames/

 

Edit: Here are the two choices the Shogun will have to choose from at the 2017 L5R World Championship this week.

 

1. Duty - Send Doji Kuwanan back to the Osari Plains so that Tsuko can meet him in an honorable battle. One of them may not survive.

2. Justice - Send Doji Kuwanan to the Imperial City back to his sister Doji Hotaru. He will talk to Hotaru about what happened with the mysterious ronin who attacked them in the name of the Lion. Together they will investigate the manipulative politics and uncover who is trying to instigate more blood between Lion and Crane.

Edit: The Fires of Justice is the new story following the 2017 World Championship. The Shogun has chose Justice and here is what happens:

https://www.fantasyflightgames.com/en/news/2017/11/5/the-fires-of-justice/

Edited by ElSuave

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surely honor is more important? If given the choice between these two then duty can lead a samurai to kill innocents to protect their clans aims. Justice depends on whose justice it is - the emperor or a samurais personal opinion.

I like neither choice ?

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I feel like this decision can be very deceiving. The safest choice would be to vote for Justice and let Kuwanan go to his sister and investigate the manipulative politics that is happening between them and the Lion.

 

Here's the tricky part. Someone might want to see the Lion make a kill and allow Kuwanan to go to the Osari Plains to meet him in an honorable battle. Here's the problem with this choice. By doing this you're letting a strategic leader and archer go back to help defend the Osari Plains. Sure Tsuko might want to kill him in an honorable battle but there's also a chance Kuwanan might put an arrow through her head. If you send him to the Imperial City to talk to his sister then you leave the Osari Plains open for an attack without Kuwanan defending.

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This and the Gencon story choices have been SPOT ON for being really clever. Both are technically correct answers, depending on what virtues you fine more favorable.

Fiction was great at showing a good lion. They are monsters that hunger for slaughter, but only on their terms.

"What else were they trying to gain—she swallowed a snarl—or what is someone trying to take from me?"
THAT is how a lion would think, and I adore that.

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This choice has circles within circles. Allowing they are specifically talking about the Lions choice (and not generally the clans actions) then what do we have?

Quote
But she could meet him again on the fields of battle and settle this score in honorable
combat, avenging Arasou, reclaiming the Osari Plains, and proving herself Toturi’s better.
Or she could send Kuwanan to Hotaru, where he could confront his sister for her failure
of Bushidō and potentially help Tsuko uncover the identity of those who were playing them
all as pawns.
Duty and Loyalty demanded she avenge Arasou’s death. Righteousness demanded she bring
the deceivers to justice.

 

So 'Duty' involves releasing the Crane and attempting to kill him in battle. Yet her reasons are she wants to avenge her blokes death and 'prove herself Toturis better' which does not sound like duty to the lion clan but duty to her lover which is not really duty.

 

The Justice response would potentially break the war and show another faction involved and would assist the Lion so would show 'Duty'

 

If the choices were 'personal vendetta' versus 'duty' then you would (I suspect) pick Duty. Yet when vendetta is renamed 'Duty' and 'Duty' is renamed 'Justice' people are going for vendetta.

 

I would go justice (if this is about the Matsu's choice) as that would reveal more of whats going on. The Duty option seems a bit pig headed and stupid and if taken I rather hope she is killed...

 

Edited by Matrim
shifted quote as out of place

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Heheh.....

You guys said doodie.

I loved reading the part with the Boar's leader bragging and having no clue he was already dead.  Anyone that knows Tsuko from the old story knew that ronin signed his own death warrant the moment he walked into that tent.  

That's the Lion I remember!

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I like what's going on in the ongoing story, but anyone else getting a Game of Thrones vibe here?  The death of the Crane Clan champion sets of a series of events that results in the clan wars (or maybe the Scorpion Clan Coup)? There's already hints we'll see the Egg of Pan Ku show up (that little bit with Hotaru and Kachiko). I wish they could have tried and come up with a different storyline rather than just retelling the old one in slightly different way...

As for the decision, I would like to see Justice dealt, but I feel Duty will win the day in order to progress the storyline. Of which I'm sure they've already mapped out at least a year in advance...

 

 

 

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Duty is impulsive in this instance and does not satisfy the true vengeance. He was no more responsible for the death than the arrow was.

It's clear there is manipulation afoot. Finding out who is the one pulling those strings and why is far more important than merely vengeance.

Justice is the better strategic choice in the longer game. There is still time for vengeance against the crane champion but only after the plot and plotters are discovered. 

I vote for justice, not at the expense of duty, but merely in order.

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1 minute ago, SideshowLucifer said:

Duty is impulsive in this instance and does not satisfy the true vengeance. He was no more responsible for the death than the arrow was.

It's clear there is manipulation afoot. Finding out who is the one pulling those strings and why is far more important than merely vengeance.

Justice is the better strategic choice in the longer game. There is still time for vengeance against the crane champion but only after the plot and plotters are discovered. 

I vote for justice, not at the expense of duty, but merely in order.

 

What if I identify with the Scorpion Clan and want them to fall into all-out war?

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2 minutes ago, Laurence J Sinclair said:

I like how the fiction specifically mentions which side of the kimono is folded over the other - that should please certain forum-ites!  :lol:

I noticed that too. Feels like a direct result of certain past events.

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21 minutes ago, SideshowLucifer said:

What does the war accomplish for the scorpion? If you can answer that, then you have your answer. ?

I can't speak for the Scorpion, but wars need soldiers, and in time of war people may be more interested in hiring the services of the Wasp than they would be in times of peace...

47 minutes ago, InquisitorM said:

I assume you mean Doji Kuwanan?

No, their brother, Kuwanan Hotaru.  Completely different guy.  Only the cool people know him.

Edited by JJ48

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I see the choice more as, do you want the plotters to stay safe (maybe protect the scorpion) and see a weakened Lion and Crane (again, the scorpion would like to see the other two be busy) Unicorn might want that as well as the Lion have been butting heads with them on the other side. Crab may want to see what underhanded things are going on as would Dragon I think. Lion may value Duty in my opinion, but a Crane player wouldn't to save an important person and find out who betrayed them. I can see how each clan would want this to go I think.

Scorpion, Unicorn, Lion - Duty

Crane, Dragon, Crab - Justice

Phoenix - Probably Justice?

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For me, this would come down to what seems like a more interesting story - war-war or jaw-jaw. "Duty" (aka try to kill Kwannon on the battlefield) seems to mean that the Crane and Lion have a fairly straight-up fight, and if there's political manipulation going on the Lion will be worse off for it later. "Justice/Righteousness" (aka sending Kwannon back to his sister) could foment dissent within the Crane (to the Lion's long-term political benefit) and result in more active investigation/counter-maneuvering, but (presumably) the Lion don't still go in and attack the Crane from an advantageous position.

From an in-character perspective, duty/vengeance seems like what Tsuko would choose (being "decisive" and bloodthirsty seeming to be her primary character traits), while justice/righteousness would seem to be in the long-term interests of her clan. But neither of those is necessarily relevant to what the player should choose.

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Coming from the point of view of 'what's in the best interest of the Crab' I have a hard time seeing how war between the Crane and Lion at this time would do anything other than threaten our supply of food imports. The longer the Crane lands remain under-productive the greater the risk of a shortage leading to price increases and the Scorpion making money hand over fist as the Empire's sole remaining breadbasket.

Best to send Kuwanan to his sister in an effort t deescalate the situation.

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