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Kilkakon

Returning player sad to see Jumpmaster meganerf

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I know this is just unfortunate, but I was looking forward to the Punishing One's release for over a year, bought the ship, then my local gaming group disintegrated, only for the ship to get what I found fun and interesting about it (large ship with astromech) axed just before I could get to play with it with my new group that started up recently :(.

Price of desiring a ship that turned out to be OP I guess. Hopefully they come out with a limited upgrade or something that gives the functionality back. Certainly kills my energy to buy anything else if it's going to get what makes it interesting removed from the game. Was eyeing up a C-ROC Cruiser (are they any good?)

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I know this is only a small consolation, but if you are mostly playing home games, there's no reason that you and your friends can't simply ignore the errata. Or you can add your own errata that puts the droid back in when you take the title.

And if you play competitively, I think the general consensus is that Dengar is still really strong without torpedoes or the astromech. Time will tell.

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11 minutes ago, stonestokes said:

I know this is only a small consolation, but if you are mostly playing home games, there's no reason that you and your friends can't simply ignore the errata. Or you can add your own errata that puts the droid back in when you take the title.

And if you play competitively, I think the general consensus is that Dengar is still really strong without torpedoes or the astromech. Time will tell.

^this. Both the jm5k and nym will still feature at the pointy end of the competitive scum scene, they just won't dominate the metawing lists the way they have previously

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I feel bad for the OP but I also feel bad for all of the people who wanted to play all the other ships in the game that they were excited about playing only to see them crushed utterly by triple scouts, then mindlinked manaroo, then dengaroo, then Nym/Dengar...

Yeah it sucks that they had to resort to an awkward solution to the JM5k, but there were very few options.  It was the first ship that was broken in its base cost, dial and upgrade bar instead of because of some new mechanic (i.e. TIE Phantom and ACD).  So they couldn't just change the timing on a reference card or re-word an upgrade, they had to come in and fundamentally alter the broken ship they released.

It's a good thing they have responded and re-opened the meta.  The long FAQless waste was getting pretty bleak.

 

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The JM5K needed a Nerf.

The manner in which it was nerfed was rather questionable.

But one thing for sure, the X-wing you remembered is no more. No the meta is still as broke as ever despite the cheers of all those Soontir wannabes (more like incarnations of Fel's Wrath since that pilot is supposed to die every game) not realizing their precious TIE Interceptors are still useless in competitive play. Good thing there is still scenario play (which doesn't take in FAQs) and HotAC which doesn't care about competitive meta.

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Yeah I've yet to play in a competitive game, generally has been 100 point games in the past, and now has been Heroes of the Aturi Cluster (HWK-290 hype). I hope that I can find other campaigns of similar quality as we have nearly completed Aturi.

My complaint is mainly emotional and precedent based I guess. I bought the ship because I liked its options and customisation--now it's gone unless I play with house rules. Why should I be taken in by any future promotional material? There's nothing to say that they wouldn't remove bomb slots from K-Wing, for example.

I'm not angry or anything, just disappointed at something I was passionate about being no longer playable. I fully understand the ship was meta defining as it resulted in 4 cards being nerfed (Deadeye, Zuckuss, Manaroo, now the ship itself) so there's no doubt it was beyond broken.

Still, thanks for understanding everyone :wub:

Edited by Kilkakon

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14 minutes ago, Kilkakon said:

Yeah I've yet to play in a competitive game, generally has been 100 point games in the past, and now has been Heroes of the Aturi Cluster (HWK-290 hype). I hope that I can find other campaigns of similar quality as we have nearly completed Aturi.

My complaint is mainly emotional and precedent based I guess. I bought the ship because I liked its options and customisation--now it's gone unless I play with house rules. Why should I be taken in by any future promotional material? There's nothing to say that they wouldn't remove bomb slots from K-Wing, for example.

I'm not angry or anything, just disappointed at something I was passionate about being no longer playable. I fully understand the ship was meta defining as it resulted in 4 cards being nerfed (Deadeye, Zuckuss, Manaroo, now the ship itself) so there's no doubt it was beyond broken.

Still, thanks for understanding everyone :wub:

If you're playing at home and want to maintain a semblance of balance, swap the crew for the salvaged astromech slot.

It's the combination of the two that broke things.

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9 minutes ago, Reiver said:

If you're playing at home and want to maintain a semblance of balance, swap the crew for the salvaged astromech slot.

It's the combination of the two that broke things.

I think it is a little bit more than that, unless this is the next on the chopping block.

swx53_layout.png

I mean you could make the argument that Scum had the better crew or Astromech upgrades but I can recall some grief about some (rebel) Astromech upgrades on the forums. Maybe an R2-D2 <astromech> nerf is coming.

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3 hours ago, Marinealver said:

The JM5K needed a Nerf.

The manner in which it was nerfed was rather questionable.

But one thing for sure, the X-wing you remembered is no more. No the meta is still as broke as ever despite the cheers of all those Soontir wannabes (more like incarnations of Fel's Wrath since that pilot is supposed to die every game) not realizing their precious TIE Interceptors are still useless in competitive play. Good thing there is still scenario play (which doesn't take in FAQs) and HotAC which doesn't care about competitive meta.

You sound a little bit over my comfort salt levels to be honest. 

Salt.jpg.eeb08cbac384ab251938c547ca6daac6.jpg

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3 hours ago, KommanderKeldoth said:

I feel bad for the OP but I also feel bad for all of the people who wanted to play all the other ships in the game that they were excited about playing only to see them crushed utterly by triple scouts, then mindlinked manaroo, then dengaroo, then Nym/Dengar...

I'm pretty sure these people will feel much better getting crushed by whatever ends up being top dog post-FAQ.

 

Not much has changed in this regard. Most ships still aren't competitive.

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3 hours ago, Marinealver said:

I think it is a little bit more than that, unless this is the next on the chopping block.

swx53_layout.png

I mean you could make the argument that Scum had the better crew or Astromech upgrades but I can recall some grief about some (rebel) Astromech upgrades on the forums. Maybe an R2-D2 <astromech> nerf is coming.

Rebels don't have k7. It's that plus the greening foods that got a little crazy.

They do have R2D2, but at least he didn't ride with r2, you know?

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3 hours ago, Marinealver said:

I think it is a little bit more than that, unless this is the next on the chopping block.

swx53_layout.png

I mean you could make the argument that Scum had the better crew or Astromech upgrades but I can recall some grief about some (rebel) Astromech upgrades on the forums. Maybe an R2-D2 <astromech> nerf is coming.

This doesn't have a trashmech slot, and doesn't have access to K4.  The combination of even stupider greens and a free action that triggered off greens was what caused the issue.

The worst you can do from that perspective with astro and crew is R2D2/Nien Nunb which isn't exactly causing massive issues.  And Rebels have Kanan crew anyway to make dials pseudo-all-green without needing Astro support.

Regen as a mechanic has its own issues, but that's kind of beside the point unless and until it becomes a meta-dominating issue.  Which it very well might.

Edited by thespaceinvader

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5 hours ago, Kilkakon said:

I know this is just unfortunate, but I was looking forward to the Punishing One's release for over a year, bought the ship, then my local gaming group disintegrated, only for the ship to get what I found fun and interesting about it (large ship with astromech) axed just before I could get to play with it with my new group that started up recently :(.

Price of desiring a ship that turned out to be OP I guess. Hopefully they come out with a limited upgrade or something that gives the functionality back. Certainly kills my energy to buy anything else if it's going to get what makes it interesting removed from the game. Was eyeing up a C-ROC Cruiser (are they any good?)

Jumpmasters are still playable.  Probably not top level but they're still not far behind.

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5 hours ago, Kilkakon said:

I know this is just unfortunate, but I was looking forward to the Punishing One's release for over a year, bought the ship, then my local gaming group disintegrated, only for the ship to get what I found fun and interesting about it (large ship with astromech) axed just before I could get to play with it with my new group that started up recently :(.

Price of desiring a ship that turned out to be OP I guess. Hopefully they come out with a limited upgrade or something that gives the functionality back. Certainly kills my energy to buy anything else if it's going to get what makes it interesting removed from the game. Was eyeing up a C-ROC Cruiser (are they any good?)

The scum faction has the best of everything - Crew, Pilot Abilities, Synergy, Ship Frames, etc. On top of all that Op-ness, the JM5K was the king. It's domination of the game has been undisputed since its release, despite 3 nerfs already (R4 agromech timing, Deadeye, Manaroo/Dengaroo).

It was less "interesting" to me that "it can do everything, all at once, and better at it".

Even if Dengar was bumped up by 3 points he'd still be top-tier. At this point, Dengar is the strongest choice, and he already takes Punishing One, so giving him his full strength back would continue to ruin the game for everyone that doesn't run them.

Edited by Astech

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24 minutes ago, thespaceinvader said:

I suspect Dengar's still tip top.  K4 Expertise is still extremely good, and he's still a PS9 turret with a crazy good ability, crazy good dial, and built in repositioning for 45 points.

Nah, he's lost a lot, especially from the astromech slot.  K4-Expertise is hit a lot by losing Unhinged Astromech.

He's ok but I think a long way from 'tip-ip' considering he starts at 45pts with Punishing One.

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4 hours ago, Marinealver said:

I think it is a little bit more than that, unless this is the next on the chopping block.

swx53_layout.png

I mean you could make the argument that Scum had the better crew or Astromech upgrades but I can recall some grief about some (rebel) Astromech upgrades on the forums. Maybe an R2-D2 <astromech> nerf is coming.

Nah, cruise missiles and harpoons have done that job already. 1 shield per turn won't keep up with the damage output that's coming unless you pair it with C3P0 and  lowrick which just makes low the punching bag and harpoons even more attractive.

Edited by Ralgon

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Just now, Stay On The Leader said:

Nah, he's lost a lot, especially from the astromech slot.  K4-Expertise is hit a lot by losing Unhinged Astromech.

He's ok but I think a long way from 'tip-ip' considering he starts at 45pts with Punishing One.

For 52 points you get a ship that can get fully modified shots after bumping, using half its dial. And the other half still gets half-modded shots. Unhinged turned him into a ship that, frankly, noobs could win tournaments with. It changes nothing about good players using his already fantastic dial well.

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8 minutes ago, Astech said:

For 52 points you get a ship that can get fully modified shots after bumping, using half its dial. And the other half still gets half-modded shots. Unhinged turned him into a ship that, frankly, noobs could win tournaments with. It changes nothing about good players using his already fantastic dial well.

I think it changes a lot about good opponents using his now-lopsided dial against him.

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10 minutes ago, Stay On The Leader said:

I think it changes a lot about good opponents using his now-lopsided dial against him.

No more than it changes setup and deployment from a good player (which is still a lot, lol).  It may cost him his TL, but it's not like those 3's were red to start with like the y wing and he still has his regular action.

Edited by Ralgon

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