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Doji Meshou

Duel Flow Chart

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Hi folks! I made a flow chart for duels. It's been updated through Open Beta v2.0.

I'd be very grateful for any feedback!

You can find it here: https://drive.google.com/open?id=16jfimly79Ccw70ZTQH3CEU57X8dEsaEA

Edited by Doji Meshou
Updated 11/10/17 to reflect v2.0

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Hey, nice work. I for one will print one for our table. 

I just skimmed through, but I think you have a typo in the last sentence of Center option under Available Actions.

Very good overall, thanks for being proactive with this!

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9 hours ago, GaGrin said:

Air and Water stances effects were updated, you might want to check those.

Good call -- missed those. Thanks!

8 hours ago, WHW said:

Warriors duels are still duels.

You're right, of course. What specifically am I missing to include them here?

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Finishing blow requires either a technique that includes readying or having an already readied weapon; if you're unarmed, and don't have iaijutsu nor any other technique, your finishing blow may have to be a fist or foot...

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Or bite! It has a built in +2 severity :D

But while Iaijutsu duel stipulates that contestants should not draw swords before the start of the duel, I had assumed that as soon as the duelists had started taking turns, they could ready their weapon using an action (in Water stance for better effect). When does one consider the duel start?

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14 hours ago, AK_Aramis said:

Finishing blow requires either a technique that includes readying or having an already readied weapon; if you're unarmed, and don't have iaijutsu nor any other technique, your finishing blow may have to be a fist or foot...

That's... an extremely good point that I hadn't considered. 

So that's one of the things that makes Iaijutsu: Rising Blade good. You can perform a finishing blow, assuming you close to Range 1, without spending a turn readying your weapon. Yes?

11 hours ago, Franwax said:

But while Iaijutsu duel stipulates that contestants should not draw swords before the start of the duel, I had assumed that as soon as the duelists had started taking turns, they could ready their weapon using an action (in Water stance for better effect). When does one consider the duel start?

My reading was that duelists may ready their weapon (1) during the special window for doing so before Round 1, although that's considered cheating, and (2) during their turn as normal -- but that takes an action.

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7 minutes ago, Doji Meshou said:

My reading was that duelists may ready their weapon (1) during the special window for doing so before Round 1, although that's considered cheating, and (2) during their turn as normal -- but that takes an action.

Yes, I was referring to case (2). As some point after the duel started (but before anyone's Strife exceeds their Composure), you can use an action to ready your weapon and that's not cheating. You lose a turn, but you're set up for a potential finishing blow. Also, you don't lose a turn if you are in Water Stance and use that extra action on top of, say, Center or Provoke.

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19 minutes ago, Doji Meshou said:

So that's one of the things that makes Iaijutsu: Rising Blade good. You can perform a finishing blow, assuming you close to Range 1, without spending a turn readying your weapon.

 

You don't need to close to range 1, because "For the duration of the duel, each character is considered to be in range of all of their opponent’s weapons and techniques." (p162)
 

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26 minutes ago, Doji Meshou said:

That's... an extremely good point that I hadn't considered. 

So that's one of the things that makes Iaijutsu: Rising Blade good. You can perform a finishing blow, assuming you close to Range 1, without spending a turn readying your weapon. Yes?

My reading was that duelists may ready their weapon (1) during the special window for doing so before Round 1, although that's considered cheating, and (2) during their turn as normal -- but that takes an action.

Range is ignored in duels.

Note that I had a player not take a finishing blow because he had no ready weapons... of course, he was "fighting" a bushi by throwing koans at him to enrage him.

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26 minutes ago, Exarkfr said:

 

You don't need to close to range 1, because "For the duration of the duel, each character is considered to be in range of all of their opponent’s weapons and techniques." (p162)
 

 

19 minutes ago, AK_Aramis said:

Range is ignored in duels.

Note that I had a player not take a finishing blow because he had no ready weapons... of course, he was "fighting" a bushi by throwing koans at him to enrage him.

I'm confused. Why do the dueling rules go out of their way to specify that everyone begins at Range 2, then? Is that just an internal contradiction?

But either way, Update 1.0 renders a lot of this moot in a way I hadn't read carefully enough to realize (emphasis mine):

Quote

Skirmishes

p. 163, Assessment Check (Skirmish): After the first sentence, add the following: “Additionally, any character who succeeds may ready 1 weapon or other relevant item.

p. 164, Movement: Replace this section with the following: “Once during their turn, before or after performing an action, a character may move 1 range band. A character may move an additional range band as an action via the maneuver action.”

I'll update the flowchart to reflect this. Thanks as always for your input!

Edited by Doji Meshou

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Just now, Doji Meshou said:

 

I'm confused. Why do the dueling rules go out of their way to specify that everyone begins at Range 2, then? Is that just an internal contradiction?

yes, it is. See p. 161, bottom gray section, right col, ¶ 2:
 

Quote

You don’t need to worry about range bands in a duel. You and your opponent are always in range of each other’s attacks during a duel. However, you can still take advantage of terrain in your environment, at the GM’s discretion. 

Note the second sentence: "You and your opponent are always in range of each other’s attacks during a duel."

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4 minutes ago, AK_Aramis said:

yes, it is. See p. 161, bottom gray section, right col, ¶ 2:
 

Note the second sentence: "You and your opponent are always in range of each other’s attacks during a duel."

/throws up his hands in mock-disgust at internal contradictions

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There is no contradiction.

That range 2 thing just describes the characters moving into position, facing each other and bowing before/after the duel.
But for the purpose of the duel, range those not matter.

That it is useless doesn't make it a contradiction.

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Just now, Exarkfr said:

There is no contradiction.

That range 2 thing just describes the characters moving into position, facing each other and bowing before/after the duel.
But for the purpose of the duel, range those not matter.

That it is useless doesn't make it a contradiction.

I think the distinction between "this is a contradiction" and "this language is blatantly overwritten for all real cases within the same document" is pretty moot, don't you? :)

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In the Rules section of a product being beta tested ?
No. I don't think so.

A contradiction would be a real problem that would need to be corrected.

In other circumstances ?
Yes.

 

Now, a problem of this "don't bother with range in duel" is that some techniques might become useless.
No point using Iron Forest Style in a spear duel to keep opponent at range...

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