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Yandia

Mantis have no Glory!!!

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We are on the fence between 39-40, due their foreign culture associations and some piracy accusations, but on the other hand some of those families with 39 have such tragedies, like Hiruma losing their ancestral lands to the Shadowlands, the Yogo with their curse...

Edited by Nheko

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Yeah but on the other hand, are they any better than the Yasuki - another family at 39? Ok these guys are turncoats but hey, they’re not quasi-pirates who mingle with gaijin.. 39 feels right to me. 

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On 10/26/2017 at 1:30 PM, Yandia said:

No literally, the Glory entry for the Families of the Fleat is missing.

1st ed, they, and all the other minors, started with 0 glory... Way of the Minor Clans, p. 17

Edited by AK_Aramis
adding reference

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The document has at least two less amusing typos:

  1. In the description of "The Families of the Fleet. the "arguable" in "arguable more comfortable" should "arguably."
  2. In the sidebar's third bullet, insert "know" after "you" in "You at least some foreign words..."

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On 10/26/2017 at 8:19 PM, Nheko said:

We are on the fence between 39-40, due their foreign culture associations and some piracy accusations, but on the other hand some of those families with 39 have such tragedies, like Hiruma losing their ancestral lands to the Shadowlands, the Yogo with their curse...

1E had them be, as with all minor clans, Glory 0.

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5 hours ago, AK_Aramis said:

1E had them be, as with all minor clans, Glory 0.

Glory 0 doesn't mean the same thing in this edition as it did in 1E then. A character with glory 0 is "One of the most villainous or scandalous individuals to have walked the Empire."

Edited by Norgrath
Adding Clarity

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On 10/27/2017 at 5:19 AM, Nheko said:

We are on the fence between 39-40, due their foreign culture associations and some piracy accusations, but on the other hand some of those families with 39 have such tragedies, like Hiruma losing their ancestral lands to the Shadowlands, the Yogo with their curse...

You have 4 options: low, average, high, very high. I wouldn’t compare with other families, just decide whether they should have the same glory as an average fresh-from-gempukku great clan samurai or not (I suggest not, but you do you). High or very high are obviously out. I think it was a bad move on FFG’s part to change Glory to reputation though.

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On 10/27/2017 at 4:19 AM, Nheko said:

We are on the fence between 39-40, due their foreign culture associations and some piracy accusations, but on the other hand some of those families with 39 have such tragedies, like Hiruma losing their ancestral lands to the Shadowlands, the Yogo with their curse...

Agreed. It definitely shouldn't start low enough that you can be forced to take extra infamy disadvantages. 

Since you can, at worst, decrease your Glory by 3 in character creation, as long as it's, say, 35+ it should be fine. 

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Glory isn't Status. A ji samurai would have most of all low status. 

Glory is how well they are known and how good is their reputation (and their lord's). With the feeling in Rokugan than Mantis are just pirates, maybe a base glory of 20-29 would show that they are considered untrustworthy by default. And the infamy whisper disadvantages fits. It's not what you are but what society believes you are.

Accomplishments and heroics will help them raise their glory.  The fact they have no family name doesn't help glory I think. 

Edited by Nitenman

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You probably need to define what you mean by ji-samurai, as it hasn't remained constant. Some editions consider it uplifted ashigaru and others who are less than full samurai, while others it's full samurai from vassal families.

Edited by BitRunr

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1 hour ago, BitRunr said:

You probably need to define what you mean by ji-samurai, as it hasn't remained constant. Some editions consider it uplifted ashigaru and others who are less than full samurai, while others it's full samurai from vassal families.

Second and Third both seemed to say "both", and both clearly indicate that the bushi cross the line between samurai and heimin

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OTOH, Fourth Edition;

Quote

Low-ranking buke are sometimes referred to impolitely as ji-samurai.

This term is not widely used in polite conversation, however—it is usually only brought up when someone of greater rank wishes to shame or embarrass a member of the lower buke.

Most of them belong to minor branches of the great families that have sworn fealty to the family daimyo or Clan Champion and in return are granted the right to bear their lord’s name. A subset of these are the so-called vassal families, individual family groups who have been given the right to bear a unique name of their own. These vassal family names are not generally known outside of their patron family, although some within the clan as a whole will be familiar with the vassals of other families.

Ronin are a unique subset of the ji-samurai. They are samurai by their birth, and that cannot be ignored even by their greatest detractors.

The wiki would say it's for samurai that have not yet earned the right to a family name, and refers to Third Edition.

http://l5r.wikia.com/wiki/Ji-Samurai

So I still think it's appropriate to define what one means when one says "ji-samurai".

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2 hours ago, BitRunr said:

You probably need to define what you mean by ji-samurai, as it hasn't remained constant. Some editions consider it uplifted ashigaru and others who are less than full samurai, while others it's full samurai from vassal families.

For me ji-samurai are samurai who haven’t been allowed to take the family name. Whether they serve a lord of a great or minor family or one of a vassal family doesn’t matter in that regard. Vassal family (full) samurai go by the great family name in public - so they are allowed to - and their vassal family name while in the context of their own clan (not just family).

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