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Nheko

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idk - I like that it was released as a companion piece so we can see ONLY the changes without going through the entire book... but they should have simply released this side-by-side with an updated document with the changes included.  It shouldn't be difficult to re-author the original file with the changes included so there is still a single "core book."

I feel like the main composition of the book (the order the different subjects are in) should remain constant through the beta, or at least wait until the final revisions before bothering with changing that up because it is going to cause confusion to people in the beta to find their points again in the midst of other book updates.

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7 minutes ago, shosuko said:

idk - I like that it was released as a companion piece so we can see ONLY the changes without going through the entire book... but they should have simply released this side-by-side with an updated document with the changes included.  It shouldn't be difficult to re-author the original file with the changes included so there is still a single "core book."

A big thing to consider here is that adjusting the text can lead to rules shifting pages, especially where large cuts or additions (like reworking Strife / Unmasking) are concerned, and now every single rules reference page number has to be re-evaluated, or the document will get harder to navigate.

Personally, if the I was on a team that was trying to handle art, design final PDF layouts, mod rules, scour the forums / feedback, and write fluff text, then making the free beta PDF nice would be the least of my worries.

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15 minutes ago, MuttonchopMac said:

A big thing to consider here is that adjusting the text can lead to rules shifting pages, especially where large cuts or additions (like reworking Strife / Unmasking) are concerned, and now every single rules reference page number has to be re-evaluated, or the document will get harder to navigate.

From the way the Update is laid out it can be hard (not impossible) to get a picture of what the rules are say.

Rules like Unmask and dueling are for the most part easy because they are complete overrides of a section.

But others that are just one sentence added, removed can lead to some confusion.

I myself do not fined the page. number issues that bad. Its going to have to be fixed anyway as they add fluff and missing crunch.

At least to me its more of a hassle to jump between the core and update to read missing and changed info then to have a page number that a page or two off.

Edited by tenchi2a

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I'm thinking about copying the text into a Google doc and just copy/pasting in the changes as they come out for my own personal use. Not sure if I want to put that much effort into it though.

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2 minutes ago, JorArns said:

I'm thinking about copying the text into a Google doc and just copy/pasting in the changes as they come out for my own personal use. Not sure if I want to put that much effort into it though.

Tried it with word and the formatting just fell apart.

 

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1 hour ago, MuttonchopMac said:

EDIT: I would also note that the Star Wars beta was a paid beta, so even if the PDF is a little crappy, be happy it's free to participate in the beta.

:blink: Really? 

Well, then again, this is Star Wars; it pays for itself. 

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2 minutes ago, BlindSamurai13 said:

:blink: Really? 

Well, then again, this is Star Wars; it pays for itself. 

Yup. It was like $15-20 for a beta book, which came with dice stickers, but only certain local game stores elected to buy shipments of beta books, so good luck getting one...

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2 hours ago, MuttonchopMac said:

EDIT: I would also note that the Star Wars beta was a paid beta, so even if the PDF is a little crappy, be happy it's free to participate in the beta.

This had more to do with the licensing then anything else.

The star wars license has not been updates in years and lumps PDF into the game software category.

Due to this FFG does not have the licence to produce PDF of their products.

So to beta test the star wars game they had to print the books leading to cost that had to be recouped.

Edited by tenchi2a

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1 minute ago, tenchi2a said:

This had more to do with the licensing then anything else.

The star wars license do to not having been updates in years lumps PDF into the game software category.

Due to this FFG does not have the licence to produce PDF of their products.

So to beta test the star wars game they had to print the books leading to cost that had to be recouped.

I had forgotten this excellent point.

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4 minutes ago, tenchi2a said:

This had more to do with the licensing then anything else.

The star wars license has not been updates in years and lumps PDF into the game software category.

Due to this FFG does not have the licence to produce PDF of their products.

So to beta test the star wars game they had to print the books leading to cost that had to be recouped.

Wow... 

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1 hour ago, AtoMaki said:

About turning the pdf into an editable document, don't worry about that guys, I'm already on it ;) !

Mf66RxGlfTy8PhPTJuCLsc3JdJYGe7JWAILYwTqS

it's very easy just use Adobe Acrobat to combine all 3 documents and add updated book to it when new updates are released

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44 minutes ago, Hammo12 said:

it's very easy just use Adobe Acrobat to combine all 3 documents and add updated book to it when new updates are released

Sure. It is very time consuming. It also completely screws up the index and table of contents. It also screws things up for People who print the book for their table. Requiring a reprint.everytime is wasteful when only a few pages need printed.

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21 hours ago, Mirumoto Seiichiro said:

Was more indicating for people the wording is indicating that they wont be updating the main rules document. Which is a problem

they're proceeding exactly like they did for the 3 SW betas... Core, then separate cumulative update PDFs.

And there's good reason. Book layout, even with only minor changes, can have cascading effects on par with needing to rework entire chapters due to table and sidebar placements.

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Maybe it could help to make all the updates self-contained. What I mean by that is instead of having the update document reference exact sentences that need to be changed in the core rules and then having to flip back and forth between the two to see exactly which sentences to change and do mental math to keep track of what the new technique/thing should look like, the update document could have the whole technique/paragraph written with the changed sentences in (and maybe highlighted in their own color to stand out). That way people can read the edited technique/whatever straight from the update document and have it. The changes that are already in the update document that are self-contained like this are good already (like new additions or complete rewrites), it's mainly the sentence replacement that throws people off. It may make the update document a bit bigger in the end, but the usability will pay off. That is if it doesn't cause the dev team much trouble. Or the people with the ability to edit the PDFs could do it if they so wished.

Edited by tokugawa77

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Which would require a ton of work. Their layout guys are spending their time laying out books being sent to the printer. They dont have time to relay out the beta book every week. Laying out a book is very time consuming. The beta update just get added to a single doc. You cant slip them into the beta book. It would really screw up the book organization. Which is currently a rush slap together job as it is.

 

You guys really have unrealistic expectations. They are trying to get the rules tested while wasting minimal effort. Redoing the book everyweek would be the opposite of that.

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4 minutes ago, Daeglan said:

Which would require a ton of work. Their layout guys are spending their time laying out books being sent to the printer. They dont have time to relay out the beta book every week. Laying out a book is very time consuming. The beta update just get added to a single doc. You cant slip them into the beta book. It would really screw up the book organization. Which is currently a rush slap together job as it is.

 

You guys really have unrealistic expectations. They are trying to get the rules tested while wasting minimal effort. Redoing the book everyweek would be the opposite of that.

Then the community can do it themselves without any extra work from the devs, (which is what some of us are already attempting). We are simply expressing what we would like and are by no means forcing or demanding the devs to do extra work apart from what they are already doing with the extensive beta testing. My suggestion was just a simpler one that attempts to smooth over the issues people are having while taking the least effort to implement/change. I am absolutely fine with the devs not implementing it, or even if the community doesn't want to implement it. It was just a simple thought thrown into the wind.

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51 minutes ago, tokugawa77 said:

Then the community can do it themselves without any extra work from the devs, (which is what some of us are already attempting). We are simply expressing what we would like and are by no means forcing or demanding the devs to do extra work apart from what they are already doing with the extensive beta testing. My suggestion was just a simpler one that attempts to smooth over the issues people are having while taking the least effort to implement/change. I am absolutely fine with the devs not implementing it, or even if the community doesn't want to implement it. It was just a simple thought thrown into the wind.

I get it. But you guys keep harping on it as if it is simple. It really isnt.  Not if they want the doc to flow right.

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