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Compatibility of Imperial Assault and Legion

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49 minutes ago, ninclouse2000 said:

I am an armada player and fully anticipate the release of an ssd.  Again ffg would not design either of these games (legion or armada) without a plan to include the at at and ssd.  I will look forward to raising this thread from the grave in a year or two to specifically tell you “I told ya so”

I'm an armada player too- and you'll notice I didn't say there will never be an SSD. My point is that to date, over 2 years after the armada core set released, there is still no SSD, not even an announcement of one being in development. Maybe there will be in the future, but Armada has yet to "fail" due to its absence.

By the same token, there could very well be an AT-AT in Legion someday but I'm not gonna hold my breath waiting for it.

Edited by ShadowKite
Also if you don't necro this thread as soon as the SSD is announced I'm gonna be disappointed in you ;)

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26 minutes ago, ShadowKite said:

By the same token, there could very well be an AT-AT in Legion someday but I'm not gonna hold my breath waiting for it.

Assuming FFG hold true, there will be an announcement in 2018 GenCon and the AT-AT will be delivered in time for Christmas, I'll leave the details as to the year that Christmas may be to the individual reader. :P

I would never hold my breath for anything FFG announces, because all else being equal the ship will founder in still waters. FFG may make great games but their logistics can sometimes be very, very random.

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5 hours ago, ninclouse2000 said:

I am an armada player and fully anticipate the release of an ssd. I will look forward to raising this thread from the grave in a year or two to specifically tell you “I told ya so”

People have been saying that about the SSD for years already, so I feel quite safe on that front.

The AT-AT is at least a bit more likely.

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11 hours ago, ShadowKite said:

I'm an armada player too- and you'll notice I didn't say there will never be an SSD. My point is that to date, over 2 years after the armada core set released, there is still no SSD, not even an announcement of one being in development. Maybe there will be in the future, but Armada has yet to "fail" due to its absence.

By the same token, there could very well be an AT-AT in Legion someday but I'm not gonna hold my breath waiting for it.

Ummmm there actually was an SSD being play tested. 

"I also know that they've had an SSD playtested, but I have no idea what the results of the playtesting were. From what I did hear, however, it wasn't all that big. That's a shame. It should be big. 16" at the very least, IMO."

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28 minutes ago, Undeadguy said:

Ummmm there actually was an SSD being play tested. 

"I also know that they've had an SSD playtested, but I have no idea what the results of the playtesting were. From what I did hear, however, it wasn't all that big. That's a shame. It should be big. 16" at the very least, IMO."

In the interests of accuracy, that's not evidence that an SSD was being playtested by FFG. It shows that a guy on the internet said he knew that FFG were testing it, without any evidence or corroboration.

He may well be telling the truth, but i spend too much time on,line to take anything like that for granted. 

 

 

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18 hours ago, Marinealver said:

For the second point again this is FFG not setting up legion for success.

I mean if you think this is IA Skirmish 2.0 then there's just no way to have a rational discussion of anything involving Legion with you.

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1 hour ago, Undeadguy said:

Ummmm there actually was an SSD being play tested. 

Like was said above... Unless it comes from FFG then we don't know it there was one or not.  However I wouldn't be a bit surprised if there was one being play tested, because it would really be kinda stupid not to see if they could get it to work.

But even if there was one play tested that doesn't mean they have any intention of actually producing one, because the play test very well could show that a SSD just doesn't work in Armada.

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14 hours ago, ninclouse2000 said:

Again ffg would not design either of these games (legion or armada) without a plan to include the at at and ssd. 

Lots of people said the same thing about Epic X-Wing and ISD's, yet per FFG we will never see a ISD in Epic X-Wing.  So I wouldn't count on a SSD in Armada or a AT-AT in Legion.

It could happen, but there are plenty of issues with both that no one should assume it will ever happen in either game.

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11 hours ago, VanorDM said:

I mean if you think this is IA Skirmish 2.0 then there's just no way to have a rational discussion of anything involving Legion with you.

One is a miniature based game involving around characters of Star Wars taking place of squad/platoon level skirmishes involving heroes, infantry and the occasional light vehicle. The other is a miniature based game involving characters of star wars taking place of squad/platoon level skirmishes involving heroes, infantry, and the occasional light vehicle. 

Now I did not call Legion, IA Skirmish 2.0 in this thread. But since you brought it up what is keeping it from becoming one? After all Armada is not X-wing 2.0 but with Armada the scope and scale is vastly different from X-wing (as well as the rules). Which brings me back to the common criticism, why have two infantry only based games? Isn't Legion supposed to ramp up the scale beyond Imperial Assault Skirmish? If it doesn't then why have both? 

Now as far as what would be better in competitive scene odds are Legion would be the better game simply based upon the design foundation. With IA the design is focused more on the dungeon adventure aspect and that rarely translate into competitive balance. Correct me but I don't see any competitive descent being played but then again I don't know if there even was a skirmish format or not for that game.

So back to Legion, why doesn't it change the scope to include more of the planetary combat units? If the scale is not different from Imperial Assault then why continue competitive skirmish format? This is the very definition of self cannibalization, and there is no way you can call it a good thing in business terms.

Edited by Marinealver

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20 hours ago, Exogauge said:

"As an X-wing player I'm really angry that Armada is at a different scale so I have to buy all new ships to play" - some IA player about Legion.

You could play X-Wing with Armada scale fighters. :lol:

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15 hours ago, Marinealver said:

One is a miniature based game involving around characters of Star Wars taking place of squad/platoon level skirmishes involving heroes, infantry and the occasional light vehicle. The other is a miniature based game involving characters of star wars taking place of squad/platoon level skirmishes involving heroes, infantry, and the occasional light vehicle. 

Again you prove how little you understand about both games... 

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One is a grid based tactical board game focusing on heroes and a few units with maybe 10 miniatures per side. The other is a free form hobby miniature game focusing on a single Commander leading 30 to 40 soldiers on 3d battlefield while simulating the fog of war.  We are talking about a huge difference in scale, goal and execution.

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Okay, Legion is a miniature hobby that involves a lot of painting and terrain building and not much gaming. The "winner" is the guy with the coolest looking stuff.

Imperial Assault is a dungeon crawler board game with an optional skirmish mode. Painting IA miniatures isn't expected even if often done. There is no terrain instead included board game tiles. It really is a board game like chess that uses the miniatures as pieces in the game.

The two do have some similarities when comparing skirmish mode to legion game mode. Yes they use dice, IA actually has a more interesting system with the dice, and there is distance measuring, again, IA actually better at this because of the tiles. You do get the figures shooting at each other, so they are similar when the game is actually played.

Legion's advantage is you get to build terrain and paint everything up. You get to make things look "cool", which is how you win at the game. It is a hobby after all and the hobby is centered around painting a building terrain. That is where most of the time is spent. Compare that to X-wing where it is a pure game and the winner is who can net list the best. X-Wing too uses dice and measuring and SW miniatures shooting at each other.

The big thing to keep in mind is that Legion is a miniature hobby. It has more in common with model train sets than it does with X-Wing or even Imperial Assault for that matter. If you aren't into painting and terrain building, Legion is not the hobby for you and you will waste your money on Legion. If you want to play a game that lets you shoot at storm troopers, you should really look at Imperial Assault instead.

Edited by Mep

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1 hour ago, Mep said:

Okay, Legion is a miniature hobby that involves a lot of painting and terrain building and not much gaming. The "winner" is the guy with the coolest looking stuff.

Imperial Assault is a dungeon crawler board game with an optional skirmish mode. Painting IA miniatures isn't expected even if often done. There is no terrain instead included board game tiles. It really is a board game like chess that uses the miniatures as pieces in the game.

The two do have some similarities when comparing skirmish mode to legion game mode. Yes they use dice, IA actually has a more interesting system with the dice, and there is distance measuring, again, IA actually better at this because of the tiles. You do get the figures shooting at each other, so they are similar when the game is actually played.

Legion's advantage is you get to build terrain and paint everything up. You get to make things look "cool", which is how you win at the game. It is a hobby after all and the hobby is centered around painting a building terrain. That is where most of the time is spent. Compare that to X-wing where it is a pure game and the winner is who can net list the best. X-Wing too uses dice and measuring and SW miniatures shooting at each other.

The big thing to keep in mind is that Legion is a miniature hobby. It has more in common with model train sets than it does with X-Wing or even Imperial Assault for that matter. If you aren't into painting and terrain building, Legion is not the hobby for you and you will waste your money on Legion. If you want to play a game that lets you shoot at storm troopers, you should really look at Imperial Assault instead.

Well legion is going to pull in players from other ffg games so I assure you all that the most important part of legion will be gameplay.  Perhaps the game will end up not being for the “hobbyist elitists”.  There will be many many x wing and armada players buying into legion.  This will be a game first and foremost.  I can appreciate cool terrain but if I beat the guy who had cooler looking terrain, I’m still the winner.  Congrats on your superior painting skills but i would rather win the game than be a better painter.  

 

 

Edited by ninclouse2000

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2 hours ago, ninclouse2000 said:

Well legion is going to pull in players from other ffg games so I assure you all that the most important part of legion will be gameplay.  Perhaps the game will end up not being for the “hobbyist elitists”.  There will be many many x wing and armada players buying into legion.  This will be a game first and foremost.  I can appreciate cool terrain but if I beat the guy who had cooler looking terrain, I’m still the winner.  Congrats on your superior painting skills but i would rather win the game than be a better painter. 

Oh, for sure Legion is the new pretty and I expect many people will buy it. I also expect months after its release for many used copies to be available on ebay.  I will say this, you would be happier playing IA skirmish or better yet, X Wing or Armada if all you care about is the game aspect. You are going to find Legion to be rather frustrating with how organic it is if you are that into winning the game.

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2 hours ago, Mep said:

Okay, Legion is a miniature hobby that involves a lot of painting and terrain building and not much gaming. The "winner" is the guy with the coolest looking stuff.

This is only true for the people who decide to spend a lot of time painting and terrain building and not much gaming. I have no doubt that my army will be visually unimpressive compared to these people, but that's okay because I care more about playing the game than painting. There is no requirement for painting or building terrain, and there's no reason to tell people that they can't or shouldn't play Legion if they care more about gameplay than painting.

Unless I'm mistaken, the Runewars world champion won the tournament with a fresh-out-of-the-box unpainted army. Granted, he probably plans on painting it, but the point remains that 1) there's no obligation to paint and 2) some people care about the gameplay as much or more. This is just as true for Legion as it is for Runewars.

Imperial Assault is a fine game, but I have no interest in it. It's a different game, with a different scope, different rules, and a different feel. It is not a better game- it's a different game. Of course there are similarities. They are both Star Wars games, made by the same company. They both involve tactical decision making and rolling dice. Painting miniatures is neither more important nor less important in Imperial Assault than it is in Legion.

Yet at the end of the day Imperial Assault is a campaign-style board game, that happens to have an optional 1v1 skirmish mode. If you want to play a competitive 1v1 tactical wargame with stormtroopers, you will probably be happier playing Legion. You know, the game that is actually designed as a competitive 1v1 tactical wargame.

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3 hours ago, devin.pike.1989 said:

I can't wait for the game to just come out so I can just play it and stop reading posts from hurt imperial assault players... Unfortunately that is currently the only way for me to get my legion fix...

How about really happy IA players? I think there's a good few of us too :lol:

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All this, well bull, about Legion being a miniature hobby and not a game is hilarious.

There are plenty of full fledged miniature lines that are also real games. Just because GW tries to absolve themselves of any responsibility when it comes to 40k crappy rulesets by claiming to be a company that makes miniatures not one that creates games does not mean other miniature game companies follow suit. That's why GW has stuff like soft scores at its tournaments and other companies don't even require painted models.

You do realize that Skirmish was a tacked on addition to IA right? It's readily apparent from the rebalancing they had to apply that they created the core set for campaign play and then decided to add in a 1v1 option without real playtesting. It wasn't until later that they started to recognize you can't make the same stats/abilities for two different games and just hope it works out.

FFG is a game company. There's absolutely no reason to believe they are going to deviate from that with Legion and all of a sudden phone in the game side. That's a true attitude of GW but is not for other similar games by other producers.

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12 hours ago, Mep said:

Oh, for sure Legion is the new pretty and I expect many people will buy it. I also expect months after its release for many used copies to be available on ebay.  I will say this, you would be happier playing IA skirmish or better yet, X Wing or Armada if all you care about is the game aspect. You are going to find Legion to be rather frustrating with how organic it is if you are that into winning the game.

Ffg is first and foremost a game company,  they will put the game first, not pretty models and terrain.  Perhaps this game is not for hobby and painting elitists.  This is a game for gamers who may or may not paint their minis.  

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For those saying they are different games, 1 is skirmish on a board and 1 is a wargame on a table...id ask, would you be perfectly be able to play either game with the miniatures if they were all the size(regardless if the size was IA or Legion size).

 

The answer is yes, the game could be played fine.

IMO they have just made them different to maximise sales and stop people using IA storm troopers(they are in it for profit nothing wrong with that) and imo its emphasized by ensuring they are even bigger by making very tall bases.

Nothing wrong with it but lets not try pretend its something else.

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For the "gamer elitists", since we need to use that word, thinking they can just plop down a game mat, a few barricades and unpainted minis and really enjoy this game, well, lets just say there are going to be far more people buying this game than actually playing it. You are going to be happier with a game like X-Wing or Armada than this game. If IA didn't do it for you, this game certainly won't. You guys really don't have realistic expectations of this game.

@VAYASAN There might be something to FFG wanting to increase sales by changing the minis, however the bar for the quality of miniatures in these miniature games is so high the old IA or even Descent minis just don't cut it. FFG had to do better with their figures for Legion and Runewars. Also, this is an FFG game, there is a whole card side of this game you are leaving out.

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