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JorArns

Vassal Family Creation

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So is there any specific way vassal families are founded? Like the Anou, Kochako, or the Naoko families. It seems like I've read about this before but I can't remember for the life of me.

 

Edit: is the creation of a vassal Family the sole province of the Emperor or can a clan daimyo create one?

Edited by JorArns

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Not that I recall, it’s more likely a decision taken by the Clan Champion. Please Okuma correct me if I’m wrong.

Sometimes they do it to accomplish a specific task like the Crane Ashidaka who forged the Kakita blades, sometimes to remove individual that can be threat within the clan by “promoting” him (really demoting him) as the leader of a vassal family.

I think The Great Clans had a section on this...

Edited by Nheko

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My read is that vassal families are acknowledged by the Clan Daimyō. They become a major family when the Emperor first addresses them by their family name in court.

In my games: 

The Tonburi were a focus of a prior campaign. A Vassal family focussed upon record keeping for the Doji... (Kanji are Warrior-Camp-Official)

Tonburi Atari was Tonburi Atari to the Doji and often to other crane, Doji no Tonburi  Atari within Crane lands, and Doji Atari to the Imperials and foreigners.

In my campaign, eventually, the crown prince owed them bigtime... And when he addressed Tonburi Hatsu as such in court, his father nodded... and addressed her as "Magistrate Tonburi Hatsu"... Doji-dono was not exactly happy... 

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1 hour ago, JorArns said:

So is there any specific way vassal families are founded? Like the Anou, Kochako, or the Naoko families. It seems like I've read about this before but I can't remember for the life of me.

There are no details in 5E at this time.

1 hour ago, JorArns said:

Edit: is the creation of a vassal Family the sole province of the Emperor or can a clan daimyo create one?

There are no details in 5E at this time, but historically, I believe family daimyo could create them. (Why not?)

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I would imagine (not based on the rules in any book, just going on common sense) that the leaders of a family at court can raise up vassal families to serve them. Clan daimyos create clan families in the exact same way. The Emperor creates clans in exactly the same way. What they're called is just a matter of which tier of the feudal structure you're talking about. There's political consequences for all of this, of course, which is why it doesn't happen all the time. The more vassal families, clan families, and clans, the less attention and resources there are to go around--so for every new one, everyone gets less once they divvy up what there is.

Less attention means less opportunity for glory. Less resources means poorer arms and armor, less magical research, less funding for works of art and literature. New groups tend to capture the eye of court, which means the established ones have a tendency toward resentment.

A good way to think about it is a family with a ton of kids who decide to have another. What does this mean for the other kids?

Edited by Agasha_Kazusinge

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21 minutes ago, Nheko said:

I stand corrected family daimyo can create a vassal family, the clan champion can create a new clan family, plus vassal families...

Thanks! I thought that was how it worked.

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15 hours ago, okuma said:

As people have said, in pre-FFG Rokugan, great family daimyo had the authority to create a vassal family (since it involved giving them a land to administer, no-one else has anyway the authority to do so).

I thought that was how it worked at least in the old lore. I can't really think of a reason why FFG would change it, but you never know. Thanks all.

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In L5R almost everyone is a member of a vassal family.

The daimyo does not create the families, he has the right to give it a name though. This name is normally the head of the family or the samurai that make the naming possible.

What people tend to forget is that being a member of the Akodo family does not mean you are descended from Akodo. It can, but most often it just means that one of your ancestors swore loyalty to the Akodo family.

The issues with vassal families in the game has always been with how to use them. Do they need mechanics or are they just fluff.

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2 minutes ago, tenchi2a said:

The issues with vassal families in the game has always been with how to use them. Do they need mechanics or are they just fluff.

I was mostly wondering fluff-wise. Not every vassal Family needs mechanics, but I'd say most people like options.

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3 minutes ago, JorArns said:

I was mostly wondering fluff-wise. Not every vassal Family needs mechanics, but I'd say most people like options.

Fluff-wise As I said no one creates a vassal family. The daimyo/Emperor just name them.

Edited by tenchi2a

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9 hours ago, tenchi2a said:

The issues with vassal families in the game has always been with how to use them. Do they need mechanics or are they just fluff.

I could get behind the idea of vassal family samurai PCs receiving less starting glory, but being able to swap out a single school skill for something specific to that vassal family. This would also make it easy to create your own vassal families ...

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On 10/26/2017 at 3:01 PM, tenchi2a said:

In L5R almost everyone is a member of a vassal family.

The daimyo does not create the families, he has the right to give it a name though. This name is normally the head of the family or the samurai that make the naming possible.

What people tend to forget is that being a member of the Akodo family does not mean you are descended from Akodo. It can, but most often it just means that one of your ancestors swore loyalty to the Akodo family.

The issues with vassal families in the game has always been with how to use them. Do they need mechanics or are they just fluff.

The fluff in prior editions implies strongly that most of the great families do in fact have blood of the Kami in their veins. Sufficiently strongly to note that the the Togashi are unusual in not having it. (but get theirs from the tattoos... per Way of the Dragon)

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15 hours ago, AK_Aramis said:

The fluff in prior editions implies strongly that most of the great families do in fact have blood of the Kami in their veins. Sufficiently strongly to note that the the Togashi are unusual in not having it. (but get theirs from the tattoos... per Way of the Dragon)

It actually says the opposite, some of the ruling families do not even have a direct link to their founders (Mirumoto, Soshi, Shiba, Isawa, ...).

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On 27/10/2017 at 0:06 AM, JorArns said:

I was mostly wondering fluff-wise. Not every vassal Family needs mechanics, but I'd say most people like options

It can bring both and add options to an already poor starting skills selection. Vassal families are created when the need arise for specialisation. 

A bushi vassal family of a few thousands may be guarding the border with another clan or with gaijin lands since centuries, and have developed using a skill for that.  

A family Daimyo received a unicorn gift or settlements of 2 stallions and 5 mares 150 years ago. He made a minor family and tasked them to breed, raise and care for the horses. If you are from this family, you should have skills in horse riding or animal handlings. 

vassal families of a few dozens individuals may be guardian of a clan technique or secret. 

They're also giving pcs a less generic name to use and a smaller family base to relate to. Might also help choosing Giri and Ninjo. 

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