4 X-Wings. (Not 3, not 2, not 1, not 5)

[BlodVargarna 4,041]

Ok @Pooleman , here’s your 4T70 thread. Go nuts. 

Edited November 12, 2017 by BlodVargarna

[Pooleman 963]

Really bro? Really?

[Rogue_Group1 31]

Literally all u can fit are rookie pilots

[Bullox 857]

The original 4 T-70 list is "Baby Blues" but we may be able to tweak it up a bit and squeeze in a few other squad configurations such as @Pooleman's squad:

Jess P and 3-Ts (100)

 

Jess Pava — T-70 X-Wing	25
R2-F2	3
Ship Total: 28
Blue Squadron Novice — T-70 X-Wing	24
Ship Total: 24
Blue Squadron Novice — T-70 X-Wing	24
Ship Total: 24
Blue Squadron Novice — T-70 X-Wing	24
Ship Total: 24

[Bullox 857]

8 minutes ago, Rogue_Group1 said:

Literally all u can fit are rookie pilots

I suppose there's room to include 4 T65 x-wing lists too. As long as it's four x-wings.  

[BlodVargarna 4,041]

There are a bunch of videos with Berto from Sling Paint flying his 4x Novices. 

 

[Pooleman 963]

1 minute ago, Bullox said:

I suppose there's room to include 4 T65 x-wing lists too. As long as it's four x-wings.  

NO NO NO NOOOOOOOO! You can't talk about that here or someone will start a new thread for you.

[CerseisAdvocate 743]

This is also for 4 T-70 Epic lists right?

[Ohnoeszz 137]

Hmmm... 4 T70s seems like you're missing the opportunity to use some of the really nice upgrades for these ships.

 

How about this 3 T70 list:

Poe: R2-D2, autothrusters, pattern analyzer, push the limit, vectored thrusters

 

Jess Pava: m9-g8, integrated astromech

 

Blue Ace: bb-8, integrated astromech

[gennataos 5,873]

1 hour ago, Ohnoeszz said:

Hmmm... 4 T70s seems like you're missing the opportunity to use some of the really nice upgrades for these ships.

 

How about this 3 T70 list:

Poe: R2-D2, autothrusters, pattern analyzer, push the limit, vectored thrusters

 

Jess Pava: m9-g8, integrated astromech

 

Blue Ace: bb-8, integrated astromech

Teehee

[Magnus Grendel 11,679]

Okay....so. 

• 4 T-70s is essentially down on the swarmy end of life, and options are few and far between. They are not however, absent.
• Many  of them are bad choices, however!

Jess Pava?

• You can include Jess Pava, or a fourth generic Blue Squadron Novice.
• Jess' abiltiy shines when she has 2+ wingmen, so it's clearly a good choice dice efficiency wise.
• She does add a ship with a different pilot skill, which locks you into a (partially) fixed movement order, and her pilot skill isn't high enough to help outfly anyone, which is bad.
• She costs 1 point more, meaning the '1 point upgrade each' means she either needs to be in her skimpies or someone else loses out.
• With essentially unlimited rerolls, not giving her any stuff isn't inherently an awful choice.
  • As noted in the other thread, 'named pilot syndrome' means she's likely to draw a lot of initial fire, but she's actually no more expensive than her wingmates and is a lot tougher hit-point for hit-point if she's attacked first.
  • If she's attacked last, then by the time she's being shot at, her pilot ability is functionally blank, so points invested in her are not inherently more effective than in one of the blue squadron novices.
  • Her offensive rerolls do give her a meaningful advantage in firepower, so there might be an argument in boosting up (as cheaply as possible) her attack power.
  • R2-D6/A Score To Settle springs to mind. It will cost you the upgrade on another T-70, though.

Astromechs

• R2 Astromech - Do you want a TIE interceptor's green dial for a point? And enable Integrated Astromech at the same time? Yes? Good.
• R5 Astromech - A half-decent card but not on the T-70. Given that the first 3 hits can't suffer criticals, and the sixth kills you regardless, and you still have the integrated astromech discard ability in your pocket, the odds of getting much mileage out of this are low indeed.
• Flight [Control?] Astromech - coming in the Phantom II. It has some sort of limit - "you cannot [something] your [something]" but appears to allow free barrel rolls if you don't collide with anything or anyone and you end up with a target in your arc/in a target's arc. Depending on cost this could be very useful. If it's either '0' or '1', expect this to become the new 'thing' - given that it's one of only 2 non-unique cards in the Phantom II expansion, it's likely to carry a lot of the job of 'selling' the pack.
• R2-D6 - It's an EPT.
  • adaptability does nothing but mess up your pilot skill - although if you really want to, making a second pilot PS3 to fly alongside Jess might help but I doubt it's worth too much in game terms.
  • Best use is probably on Jess with A Score To Settle - making her a priority target and tougher at the same time.
  • If you really want to draw fire at Jess, Selflessness could help, but then you're drawing upgrades off 2 other ships.
• Targeting Astromech - Being able to Talon Roll and still get target locks sounds cool, but the problems are two-fold:
  • It's a 2-point upgrade, meaning only half the squad can have it.
  • You get functionally the same effect out of Pattern Analyser. Taking both is amazing, but you're well into the realm of only 3 T-70s max as that point, losing out on that lovely 25% increase in firepower in return for more toys.
• EDIT: nearly forgot them!
  • R5-X3 - Dash-for-a-turn could be good as a fair swap for an R2 astromech. Time it right and you gain far more benefit than simply enabling integrated astromech. 
    • For best results, fly through an asteroid, boost onto another asteroid and then shoot an obstructed target in the same turn. Hard to pull off but you can hardly claim you've not got your 1 point's worth if you can...
  • R4-D6 - Biggs' favourite. Probably not worth it normally because you need 3 uncancelled [hit] results for it to matter.  On Jess, maybe - on normal ships definitely not.

Tech

• Primed Thrusters - Being able to talon roll and still boost does give you some impressive maneuverability, but spending your actions getting your nose around means that you lack dice modification and are a lot less effective when you do.
  • This is the reason I fixate on adaptive ailerons on my beloved TIE strikers; the extra movement without taking up your action is worth its weight in gold.
  • On the other hand, it's not like you could do anything else with your 'perform action' step after a talon roll or K-turn, and getting extra movement could make the difference between a shot/block and not. 
  • The question is whether a boost 'now' (primed thrusters) is better than a more open dial next turn  (R2 astromech) - and whether it outweighs the advantage of extra durability too (R2 astromech).
• Hyperwave Comm Scanner - you aren't fast enough to make use of the free token unless someone does something stupid. Still, the option of boosting into contact whilst you have free tokens might help if your opponent complies. What it's really there for, though, is to give you a positional advantage, deploying after even Veteran Instincts Darth Vader - a potent advantage for a 4-ship superheavy swarm. 
• Pattern Analyser - again, a 2-point upgrade is a big issue with 24 point ships. 

Edited October 30, 2017 by Magnus Grendel

[BlodVargarna 4,041]

Awesome analysis @Magnus Grendel

[Magnus Grendel 11,679]

Probably a lot more relevant - actual tactics.

• More than anything else, regardless of specific composition or one-off tricks a T-70 squad has three key elements at its disposal
  • Firepower
  • Massive durability
  • A half-decent dial and a good action bar
• Blocking is going to be a key weapon in your armoury, but you need to be careful about when you employ it.
  • A TIE swarm can afford to employ 1/8th of its force in a maneuver that almost certainly won't get a shot but might or might not block a ship.
  • Committing 1/4 of your force to the same is much riskier - you can't afford to lose your 4th shot unless you're confident you'll get 2-3 good shots on the target to compensate.
• People love to imply that a 3-dice attack with 'just' a focus token is irrelevant. This is....almost true, but only from their point of view.
  • A 3 dice attack with just a focus is pretty unreliable at range 3.
  • At range 1, a single barrel roll (or, god forbid, SLAM) can dodge multiple arcs of fire. Don't press for range 1 because you'll lose more dice from shots not taken than you'll gain in range 1 bonuses unless you're confident you've blocked the opponent.
  • Range 2 is your ideal hunting ground - close enough to make lining up an arc of fire on the right general area easy and to make the dice actually matter, far enough away that multiple overlapping arcs are hard to evade.
  • The only obvious exception is hitting the gas full tilt to get in under the minimum range of missile boats - especially cruise missiles, who are likely doing high-speed attack runs of their own.
  • Always remember that a mediocre shot with a focus token is about as good as a 'great' shot without one. 
  • Be careful of abilities which aren't once-per-turn (autothrusters, Serissu, Fenn Rau,  Boba Fett, ironically Jess Pava) - these are the real problem children you'll have to deal with, and tactics will depend on the activation criteria for their abilities.
  • Against 'once per turn' effects (evade tokens, focus tokens, Lowhhrick), the special ability "and now I have another focused three dice attack after you've spent all your once-per-turn tricks" is a lot better than many people give it credit for.
• Durability - don't get me wrong. A generic T-70 is no match for Autothruster/Intensity/R2-D2/Comm Relay Poe Dameron or similar aces laden with enough upgrades to essentially ignore the game rules as required.
  • 'Tough' for a swarm (and you are a [super-heavy] swarm) can only be measured as 'tough enough'.
  • For a heavy swarmer like the Cartel Marauder or Scarif Defender, tough enough means requiring multiple attackers to kill.
  • If a TIE fighter can take a plasma torpedo and survive on one hit left, it's done its job, because the effort to finish it off is something your opponent cannot afford when he only has two to three shots a turn and there are seven of his mates screaming down on them.
  • For a T-70, I'd say taking fire for a full turn and not ending up dead is a good metrestick - surviving 3 attacks is hard but eminently doable with a focus token and not being at range 1 (because the enemy will invariably shoot first and hit hard). 
• Remember, having an extra ship is great. But if one ship gets pilot skill-killed, or ends up with no shot, you're down to three on three (or one-and-a-big ship, which amounts to the same) which puts you on even footing with your opponent. So whilst you shouldn't be afraid of taking the odd bit of fire (your ships are about as tough as a contracted scout, after all) , try to avoid putting your ships in a position where concentrated fire can take out X-wings before they fire.
• Keep your squad together. It needn't be in a ludicrously tight formation (unless you have Jess along, where you want at least 2 in close formation and ideally 3), but you want to be engaging with all 4 simultaneously. 
• With the classic R2 Astromech/Integrated Astromech, you've got a lot of flexibility to break formation and come about. Pulling a Talon Roll followed by a hard turn is awkward, in that a red move still leaves you bereft of tokens, but you can break out of the turn in a lot of flexible ways. Try to come at the enemy from a couple of directions - remember your goal is to concentrate arcs of fire at the same point, not ships.

[Hobbyist 407]

4xblues w. R2 astr and integrated. is there any other choice?

[Rettere 247]

And the number of the X-wings shall be four. Three shalt thou not fly, excepting that thou immediately proceedeth to four. Five is straight out.

[Pooleman 963]

23 minutes ago, Rettere said:

And the number of the X-wings shall be four. Three shalt thou not fly, excepting that thou immediately proceedeth to four. Five is straight out.

Love it. The Holy T-70s of Antioch.

[Magnus Grendel 11,679]

16 hours ago, Awing Test Pilot said:

4xblues w. R2 astr and integrated. is there any other choice?

• As noted, the most obvious option is dropping one Blue Novice for Jess Pava.
  • She loses Integrated Astromech, but her rerolls might well make up for that.
• The other is swapping from R2 Astromechs on a couple of Novices to unique 1-point mechs.
  • R2-D6 plus Trick Shot or A Score To Settle for a slight increase in firepower
  • R5-X3 to give that T-70 some ability to dance asteroids

[Hobbyist 407]

On ‎11‎/‎1‎/‎2017 at 5:03 AM, Magnus Grendel said:

• As noted, the most obvious option is dropping one Blue Novice for Jess Pava.
  • She loses Integrated Astromech, but her rerolls might well make up for that.
• The other is swapping from R2 Astromechs on a couple of Novices to unique 1-point mechs.
  • R2-D6 plus Trick Shot or A Score To Settle for a slight increase in firepower
  • R5-X3 to give that T-70 some ability to dance asteroids

Of course, that's true. although maybe stick one of the novices without IA, so she can last a little longer

as for the second option, i'd struggle to keep track of their different abilities

[wurms 5,313]

Half-N-Half

Jess Pava (25)
M9-G8 (3)
Integrated Astromech (0)

Blue Squadron Novice (24)
R3-A2 (2)
Integrated Astromech (0)

Rookie Pilot (21)
Targeting Astromech (2)
Integrated Astromech (0)

Rookie Pilot (21)
Targeting Astromech (2)
Integrated Astromech (0)

Total: 100

View in Yet Another Squad Builder

[Magnus Grendel 11,679]

22 minutes ago, Awing Test Pilot said:

Of course, that's true. although maybe stick one of the novices without IA, so she can last a little longer

• Even this is an interesting quandary.
  • Jess without an Astromech:
    • The best way to hamstring Jess Pava is to kill her wingmen, suggesting you should shoot the Novice pilots first.
    • Once they go down, her pilot ability is functionally blank, so you don't gain anything from giving her an astromech relative to them.
    • By that logic, the best approach is keeping her without upgrades and making sure the Novices have Integrated Astromech (so they don't get taken out before Jess).
    • By comparison, with defensive rerolls, I actively want her to draw fire from the 'normal' T-70s, which won't dodge anywhere near as much fire when shot at.
  • Jess with an Astromech:
    • Her ability does give her offensive rerolls as well.
    • This gives her impressive firepower; so keeping her improved firepower in play if your opponent does choose to concentrate fire on her first is important.
    • Even 1-2 rerolls every time is not trivial, so as long as you keep at least 1 wingman in formation with her, it should be okay.
    • The astromech can further boost that firepower with (say) R2-D6 and A Score To Settle.

 

1 minute ago, wurms said:

Half-N-Half

Jess Pava (25)
M9-G8 (3)
Integrated Astromech (0)

Blue Squadron Novice (24)
R3-A2 (2)
Integrated Astromech (0)

Rookie Pilot (21)
Targeting Astromech (2)
Integrated Astromech (0)

Rookie Pilot (21)
Targeting Astromech (2)
Integrated Astromech (0)

Total: 100

View in Yet Another Squad Builder

Indeed. The moment you accept 'Quad X-wing' rather than 'Quad T-70' you get a lot more options:

• There are some VERY good low-end T-65 pilots - Tarn Mison, Hobbie Klivian, Jek Porkins and Garven Dreis, even ignoring the Infamous Mustachio-ed One.
  • Hobbie with Targeting Astromech is a 25 point 'baby TIE defender'.
  • Tarn with M9-G8 is a nice support unit
• At 21-23 points for at least a couple of ships you can afford much more capable astromechs and maybe even some ordnance.
  • Rookies with Targeting Astromech and Flechette torpedoes are good at annoying people in mutual jousts - the point at which you've K-turned is precisely when you can't afford to have another lump of stress dropped on you, and the "low ps target lock issue" doesn't generally apply at that point.
    • It's less useful at the moment because of the 4 hull limit - take out TIE Bombers, Scurrgs, ARC-170s, Auzitucks, K-wings, and pretty much all large ships and you're left with...what? Fenn Rau, Imperial Aces, and Poe Dameron (who doesn't really care about stress because intensity/primed thrusters). 
  • Seismic Torpedoes can be a very tasty trick, even if more than say 2 in a squad is probably overkill. Making yourself some space to joust in with a squad which can do nothing but joust is a good call. 

[Bullox 857]

Hey @BlodVargarna, would you be interested in renaming this thread "Quad X-Wings" or something? I know you started this sort of jokingly but it could lead to some neat discussions.

[Magnus Grendel 11,679]

So - the new astromechs open up a few other options.

Even if you just take a courier astromech and integrated astromech on Jess Pava, it's an extra hit point. But being able to trade around more 1 and 0 point astromechs like flight control astromech, r5x3, r2d6 and a 0 point astromech.

Courier astromech + hyperwave comm scanner letting you deploy at PS0 and pass free tokens might be quite cool.

Equally, taking three novices with couriers leaves you with 28 points to play with - blue ace should be able to pull some pretty impressive tricks with a flight control mech - the 90 degree boosts make setting up moves where you flank and boost into arc much more impressive...

[BlodVargarna 4,041]

Courier is crew not AM. 

[BlodVargarna 4,041]

On 11/2/2017 at 11:11 AM, Bullox said:

Hey @BlodVargarna, would you be interested in renaming this thread "Quad X-Wings" or something? I know you started this sort of jokingly but it could lead to some neat discussions.

done

[Magnus Grendel 11,679]

9 hours ago, BlodVargarna said:

Courier is crew not AM. 

Ah. Fair enough. Didn't notice at the time. 

Then it's probably much more relevant for the T-65 lot than the T-70s. 

"Chopper" is fairly useful too if you can afford to pack in a couple of cheap cards for him to bin off (Adaptability and Seismic Torpedoes, for example). Three squad points for 2 shields plus an Integrated Astromech discard is a big whack of toughness for a low cost, provided you have the slots to support it (which means Jek Porkins or higher)