Emperors Emperor Ability

[GenericMan 0]

The way it's written it seems he can force an enemy figure to attack, since it doesnt say "friendly figure" like imperial officer or any other leader ability. None of the examples i saw seem to address this though, so im wondering if this is the actual intent.

[a1bert 4,115]

You probably missed all the half a dozen discussions about it.

There is not space on the card for "a friendly". So, Palpatine can use Emperor to allow a hostile figure to attack. He's not controlling the figure though, so the figure's controller decides which valid target to use for his attack. Only hostile figures and objects that can be attacked can be chosen. So, aside from 4p skirmish, it means your figures will be attacked. May be useful at stripping focused and/or hidden in 2p skirmish, but otherwise not a good idea.

Shortly: Apart from some corner cases during skirmish, Emperor will target a friendly figure.

(Palpatine's command card has the "friendly".)

Edited October 24, 2017 by a1bert

[GenericMan 0]

Awesome, thanks! (And I apparently suck at searching the forums) ;-)

[nickv2002 687]

Two follow up questions for you @a1bert:

1. Can you confirm that the rules on Page 8 of the HotE manual under Special Situations Regarding Attacks do not apply here. I'm pretty sure they don't because the wording on the Emperor ability is different, but I got some questions on this in a recent podcast. I think the difference comes from the wording (i.e. on Murne's False Orders: "Choose a hostile figure with a figure cost of 3 or less within 3 spaces. Perform a move or attack with that figure." where you do get to chose the attack's target vs Emperor: "Once during your activation, you may choose another figure within 4 spaces. That figure interrupts to perform an attack" where that figure's owner choose a target.)
2. Assuming the logic from your post above remains true: Emperor doesn't require line of sight for the ability, so you could theoretically use it to target an opponent's figure around a corner. If the figure you targeted had LOS only to figures that were normally friendly, the figures controller would still have to pick one to attack. Correct?

Edited October 27, 2017 by nickv2002

[a1bert 4,115]

1. I think a recent ruling considers "Use" to include a choice. It was probably some campaign ability, don't remember which. (But Tempt does not have Use nor a cost, nor a may.)

2. Emperor does not require line of sight. Figures friendly to the attacker are not valid targets. If there are no hostile figures and no objects that can be attacked by the figure's attack type, the attack isn't performed because it doesn't get through step 1. Declare target.

 

Edited October 27, 2017 by a1bert

[Smashotron 414]

3 minutes ago, nickv2002 said:

If the figure you targeted had LOS only to figures that were normally friendly, the figures controller would still have to pick one to attack. Correct?

I don't believe there is any rule that would allow you to pick an invalid target (such as a friendly figure) just because there are no valid targets (hostile figures) in LOS.

[supersayian 140]

here is a picture of page 8 of the HotE manual. The way I am reading it. The person that controls the one resolving the ability controls the figure attacking not the player that normally controls the figure. So in reality both of the emperors abilities can be used on the other players figures.

Edited October 27, 2017 by supersayian

[a1bert 4,115]

The quote is irrelevant for this discussion. The abilities can choose either a hostile or friendly figure (not neutral figures though), because they do not specify friendly (or hostile).

However, Emperor does not allow Palpatine to perform an attack with a hostile figure. Palpatine does not control the figure during the attack. Emperor allows the figure to perform an attack. This is the same perform an attack as Executive Order, Command, and Order Hit grants.

Murne's False Orders performs an attack with another figure.

 

 

[supersayian 140]

Sorry but you are mistaken it says figure meaning either or. FFG needs to clarify if it is friendly or not. I am going with he can control a rebel figure and attack his friends. Because that is the way the page in both the FAQ and HotE say. Plus the card.

http://cards.boardwars.eu/Ally-and-Villain-Packs/Wave-10/Emperor Palpatine/Deployment Cards/Emperor+Palpatine.jpg

[a1bert 4,115]

Sorry, I'm pretty certain that I'm not mistaken.

Emperor is worded like Executive Order (that figure may interrupt to perform an attack - unlike the rules on page 8) and worded differently than False Orders (perform an attack with that figure - just like the rules on page 8).

Palpatine can allow a hostile figure to perform an attack. Palpatine is not controlling the figure. The chosen figure performs an attack. You know how to perform an attack. When performing an attack, you can not target friendly figures.

(Btw, Palpatine's command card has the "friendly" specification for Emperor, if you're looking for some kind of intent for the primary use of the ability.)

FFG does not need to clarify. You only need to read what the ability says and not what it doesn't say.

Quote

I am going with he can control a rebel figure and attack his friends. Because that is the way the page in both the FAQ and HotE say. Plus the card.

Palpatine's card does not say that he can control a figure or "perform an attack with that figure".

See Murne's False Orders, the Embrace Suffering class card and Lure of the Dark Side command cards for abilities that perform an attack with another figure.

Edited October 27, 2017 by a1bert

[Armandhammer 431]

2 hours ago, a1bert said:

Palpatine's card does not say that he can control a figure or "perform an attack with that figure".

See Murne's False Orders, the Embrace Suffering class card and Lure of the Dark Side command cards for abilities that perform an attack with another figure.

This quote sums it up quite well @supersayian

@a1bert is quite right. 

Mind you, you aren't the first person to bring this up. See the other Emperor thread, heh. I understand that feeling to instinctively look to the "special situations regarding attacks" section you just posted.

This whole situation could have been avoided if they simply added: "another friendly figure" into the Emperor ability. I don't buy the whole: "it wouldn't fit and/or it's unnecessary information" counter but hey, it is what it is. 

I do believe this is the first instance where a player can grant a hostile figure an attack without actually controlling that figure. 

From a campaign perspective, when you think about it, if the ability allowed you to take control of the figure, a Rebel Hero blasting another Rebel hero with a tier III weapon can be absolutely devastating. Plus, he'd get access to all the mods as well!

 

Edited October 27, 2017 by Armandhammer

[Uninvited Guest 834]

1 hour ago, Armandhammer said:

From a campaign perspective, when you think about it, if the ability allowed you to take control of the figure, a Rebel Hero blasting another Rebel hero with a tier III weapon can be absolutely devastating. Plus, he'd get access to all the mods as well!

 

Not to mention possibly doing it twice a round when with 4 xp spent on Embrace Suffering.

[a1bert 4,115]

Using Embrace Suffering to perform an attack with a hostile figure costs 2 threat. It also happens during end of round, so item and class cards of heroes should be exhausted and thus unavailable. (They ready at the start of each hero's activation.)

 

[R5D8 420]

Did anyone email FFG and ask about this? Feel like that could provide some clarification.  I didn't see it in any FAQ, here or there. 

[AphraFanBoy 101]

The Emperor can totally use a rebel figure to attack another rebel fig. I think the wording in the rulebook is pretty clear tbh

 

....or maybe not. Haha. But I'd still say the emperor can. It feels thematic. 

Edited December 27, 2017 by AphraFanBoy
spelling

[DTDanix 845]

1 hour ago, R5D8 said:

Did anyone email FFG and ask about this? Feel like that could provide some clarification.  I didn't see it in any FAQ, here or there. 

Feel free to email them, but the rules are pretty clear here.

Emperor allows the figure to perform an attack.  Since you don't control that attack, your opponent just attacks you (or nothing, if only friendly figures are in LOS).

[R5D8 420]

Hrm, let's see here.... I used to have that email address, but I seem to have misplaced it. 

[neosmagus 623]

2 hours ago, R5D8 said:

Hrm, let's see here.... I used to have that email address, but I seem to have misplaced it. 

There's a form on the website you fill out.

[a1bert 4,115]

5 hours ago, AphraFanBoy said:

The Emperor can totally use a rebel figure to attack another rebel fig. I think the wording in the rulebook is pretty clear tbh

You are mistaken. Emperor can totally allow another figure to perform an attack, but it doesn't make rebel figures hostile towards other rebel figures. Only abilities that allow figures to perform attacks with other figures do.

The rules are clear. Emperor is worded like Executive Order and Order Hit.

 

Edited December 27, 2017 by a1bert

[Trevize84 413]

14 hours ago, AphraFanBoy said:

I think the wording in the rulebook is pretty clear tbh

It is indeed but it's pretty clear in the way a1bert explained. Try to read and apply rules word by word. You are reading a lot more than what is actually stated.

Edited December 27, 2017 by Golan Trevize

[Trevize84 413]

On 27/10/2017 at 8:52 PM, supersayian said:

Sorry but you are mistaken

No guys believe me, one of the few reliable things in this world is a1bert's understanding of IA rules.

Edited December 27, 2017 by Golan Trevize

[AphraFanBoy 101]

I have re read and now see what you mean. Many thanks gents. ☺️

[R5D8 420]

It would appear as though FFG agrees with you.

 

"I have a question about Emperor Palpatine's "Emperor" ability. If Palpatine's player uses "Emperor" on an opponent's hostile figure, who then controls that attack? Special Rules, pg 8 of Heart of the Empire, seem to say Palpatine's player would. However, since "Emperor" doesn't actually say "perform an attack with that figure", and instead says, "That figure interrupts to perform an attack.", many have stated that the special rules on pg 8 don't apply. Who performs the attack when Palpatine uses "Emperor" on a hostile figure?"

 

Hi R5D8,

 

If you choose an opponent’s figure with Emperor, that opponent would still control the attack. Emperor doesn’t include the magic word “with” (see the eighth bullet under Special Situations Regarding Attacks on page 6 of the Rules Reference Guide).

 

The rules for attacking with a Rebel figure are included in the Heart of the Empire rulebook for the 4XP Imperial Class card Embrace Suffering from the Power of the Dark Side class.

 

Thanks for the question!

 

Todd Michlitsch
Game Developer
Fantasy Flight Games
tmichlitsch@fantasyflightgames.com