New Rules Reference Guide

[Destraa 222]

5 minutes ago, GooeyChewie said:

 

Right, but here in the real world where tournament organizers don't have time to hold everybody's hand during deck construction and nobody makes deck lists for weekly casual tournaments, it's going to happen.  It's just a matter of how often and how much it deters new and casual players.  I just hope those answers are "almost never" and "not at all."

If you’re building your deck right before the event, you’ve come woefully unprepared. Even for casual, locally sponsored events. 

[Stone37 3,353]

1 hour ago, Red Castle said:

And if the TO did a good job while advertising the tournament, players should be aware that there is a FAQ to read prior to entering the tournament.

But let's play this out....

I'm playing eKylo/ePhasma as I just bought two 2 Player Game sets so I can get a quick jump into the game.  I've also bought a few boosters

Sorry.... you can't play that deck that is only a month and a half old.  You'll need to drop a character die.

Then, I'll play with Unkar Pluntt that I just opened in a pack.

That's cool, but his card is different now too. 

OK, I'm going to play Vibroknife!

Just remember that it works differently from what it actually says on the card.

Geez, how many changes are there? Is it still OK to play Fasthands?

Only on a yellow character. 

Wow there are a lot of changes!

Yea... you should just keep this 30 page reference guide to check every card you play to make sure it still does what is printed on the card...

Edited October 25, 2017 by Stone37

[Hujoe Bigs 2,071]

27 minutes ago, Stone37 said:

But let's play this out....

I'm playing eKylo/ePhasma as I just bought two 2 Player Game sets so I can get a quick jump into the game.  I've also bought a few boosters

Sorry.... you can't play that deck that is only a month and a half old.  You'll need to drop a character die.

Then, I'll play with Unkar Pluntt that I just opened in a pack.

That's cool, but his card is different now too. 

OK, I'm going to play Vibroknife!

Just remember that it works differently from what it actually says on the card.

Geez, how many changes are there? Is it still OK to play Fasthands?

Only on a yellow character. 

Wow there are a lot of changes!

Yea... you should just keep this 30 page reference guide to check every card you play to make sure it still does what is printed on the card...

You mean, like every other player that is playing the game currently has to do? If that keeps them out of the game, it's sad, but that's the nature of the beast. I always tell a newbie what they are getting into.

[NetCop 107]

We have 8 of 542 cards with changed text and 4 of 40 characters with changed cost. If that is too hard to track then maybe it's not the game for you.

New RR will bring more balance and there is a chance that we will see equal amount of villains and heroes decks not 80/20 like before.

[Stone37 3,353]

I'll save everyone the 5 pages of reading.  If you're upset with the changes the message you'll get is:

[Jerrus 27]

I hope they change more character's cost, both Finn and Luminara could use a cost decrease IMO. Luminara's dice has almost the exact same sides (melee damage instead of ranged) as Phasma's, with IMO a worse special. Yet she costs 3 more, even after Phasma's nerf.

[blackholexan 115]

4 minutes ago, Jerrus said:

I hope they change more character's cost, both Finn and Luminara could use a cost decrease IMO. Luminara's dice has almost the exact same sides (melee damage instead of ranged) as Phasma's, with IMO a worse special. Yet she costs 3 more, even after Phasma's nerf.

I could name 4 other overpriced characters (3 of them on the Hero side too...) but from my experience physical CCG staff always act on reducing OP cards and quite never buffing UP cards...so we could hope Balance of the Force section will one day have buffs too but I don't think so honestly.

[GooeyChewie 372]

27 minutes ago, Hujoe Bigs said:

Or make an announcement before the tournament begins, takes 2 minutes and covers your bases.

I fully expect our TO will do so for the next several weeks, maybe months.  I also sincerely hope we have new players and casual players beyond those few weeks and months.

23 minutes ago, Destraa said:

If you’re building your deck right before the event, you’ve come woefully unprepared. Even for casual, locally sponsored events. 

Which really just supports my point.  It a player shows up with an illegal deck (especially if not using an elite of one of these characters) and doesn't find out until they are at the event and the rest of their stuff is at home, that's where you get into potential problems.

 

1 minute ago, NetCop said:

We have 8 of 542 cards with changed text and 4 of 40 characters with changed cost. If that is too hard to track then maybe it's not the game for you.

New RR will bring more balance and there is a chance that we will see equal amount of villains and heroes decks not 80/20 like before.

I'm not concerned about me.  Really, I am not concerned about anybody devoted enough to this game to come post on message boards about it.  But the more barriers to entry a game creates, the harder it is for that game to attract new players.

[Hujoe Bigs 2,071]

3 minutes ago, GooeyChewie said:

I fully expect our TO will do so for the next several weeks, maybe months.  I also sincerely hope we have new players and casual players beyond those few weeks and months.

This RRG is actually making some of the more casual players happy locally. They are all excited about being able to bring what they want without it being trounced. The benefits out weigh the negatives in this example. 

[ozmodon 535]

1 hour ago, Hujoe Bigs said:

A new account made 20 minutes before this post was made. Yeah, I'm going to just label this as a troll even if it is a reasonable complaint. I'm doubting you made many purchases from them in the first place.

I agree, there are many good cards in the 2 player set. The new Kylo, (amazing) new Poe, (amazing) even Rey's lightsaber is amazing. Not unhappy one bit for getting two of the 2 player sets.

[ozmodon 535]

The new rules needed to happen. I was loving Thrawn/Unkar! You know who didn't like it? Every single person I played against.

[Chakan99939 48]

I am very happy with new changes! 

Very good Poe change, not change the whole character, just increase points. 

Grats FFG!!

[Vitalis 1,012]

2 hours ago, ildragonir said:

It’s really frustrating that I ve spend 70€ to buy two boxes of the new starter and now I have only one decent deck. This is really sad for me and a shame for FFG. I DONT CARE IF THEY MADE A MISTAKE. I gave my money to have two decks. You can’t just pop up an errata that blows up and nerfs one of the two new decks you ve sold me. THIS IS A TOTAL FAIL FOR FFG.

 Maybe I ve made a mistake to trust this company again. I will consider this for my future buys in FFG. Thanks a lot. 

Not to mention you STILL HAVE 2 DECKS lol. 
You could complain that you bought 2 of them to build a specific deck that now is rendered illegal...but your complain is out of the blue.
Salt just for being salty. 

[GamerGuy1984 133]

2 hours ago, Red Castle said:

And if the TO did a good job while advertising the tournament, players should be aware that there is a FAQ to read prior to entering the tournament.

More specifically if its a new player who doesnt know about the FAQ the TO is more than likely, as well as he other players, to give the person a pass or ask them to go to a 1 die version of one character. I dont think anyone is going to have a 7 year old come in for their first store tournament, see they are playing 2P Kylo/Phasma, and go "Sorry that decks illegal you cant play AT ALL". Most TOs are going to inform the player and discuss it with the other people as to how they will handle it. Anyone coming to their 7/8/9th + Store event is serious enough about a game to learn it has a FAQ and to find it and read it.

 

Now is coming in and being told what your cards say is wrong discouraging? Yes it emphatically is, BUT it is up to the TO and the community to then help that person out to understand why it was changed and to help them not feel bad for not knowing.

[LHyoda 58]

Typical internet response. 

Two days ago: "FN is broken! Phasma is too good! Thrawn is a NPE!" 

Today: "OMG FFG sucks at design. New players will hate this. Why can't you just design perfectly."

This is 100% healthier for the community, and I'm glad that Jeremy is taking the approach of being aggressive and keeping the meta fresh. I'd rather go to a tournament and play 20 different decks over just testing to beat FN/Kylo or Phasma/something any day. 

[Vineheart01 6,403]

not even just an internet response.

People flip out when a patch note hits period. Imo the only card that got hit that to me is totally pointless now is imperial inspection but face it that NEEDED a nerf lol. Ive had games with Vader and 2 of those out where he just prevented any 2cost or less from being played, i'd just immediately put it back in your hand.Deck wasnt even focused on that, i just had those 2 cards.

Also i love the comments about having to remember the changed text. You have any idea how many people play FFG games that once played 40k or fantasy? This is nothing. Theres barely anything to remember text-change-wise

[tunewalker 182]

The thing that bothers me is that port district and Destiny seem to have reverse rulings. Port district suggests that the cards modified cost is the cost to play the card and thus if it reduces under 3 it is no longer 3 cost, and Destiny suggests that the printed cost of the card is the cost to play the card since you can not reduce the cost of the card before using destiny, these both seem like reverse rulings of the same issue so its going to be confusing for basically any other card. This is a lack of consistency in rulings here.

[ozmodon 535]

VIBROKNIFE (57)
Should read: “Ambush. Damage dealt by this die or by dice 
it modifies is unblockable.” 

So let's  not forget that an electrostaf die can be used with it but itself will not become unlockable. 

[Zamrod 5]

16 minutes ago, tunewalker said:

The thing that bothers me is that port district and Destiny seem to have reverse rulings. Port district suggests that the cards modified cost is the cost to play the card and thus if it reduces under 3 it is no longer 3 cost, and Destiny suggests that the printed cost of the card is the cost to play the card since you can not reduce the cost of the card before using destiny, these both seem like reverse rulings of the same issue so its going to be confusing for basically any other card. This is a lack of consistency in rulings here.

It has to do with the wording. Destiny lets you play a card with a certain cost. So it checks to see if the card is the right cost, then let's you play it.

Port District does things based on the cost of the card you play. So it checks the cost after you play the card rather than before it.

[tunewalker 182]

7 minutes ago, ozmodon said:

VIBROKNIFE (57)
Should read: “Ambush. Damage dealt by this die or by dice 
it modifies is unblockable.” 

So let's  not forget that an electrostaf die can be used with it but itself will not become unlockable. 

Ya if Electro staff modifies the vibro knife damage it will be unblockable, because the vibro knife Die is the one doing the damage. Modify sides are called that because they modify the value of the base dice that they are being resolved with. In this case a Electro staffs +3 with a Vibro 1 base makes the Vibro knife a 4 damage die that is why you can not resolve modifiers without a base side because the modifier has to be adding to a Die to resolve, in short yes if you have Vibros 1 and have Electro staffs +3 and Makashi's +2 then you can resolve for 7 unblockable damage as all of the modifiers added to the Vibroknife die "Damage dealth by THIS DIE...." Vibroknife die is the one doing the damage the modifiers are Modifying the Vibro Die.

[ozmodon 535]

5 minutes ago, tunewalker said:

Ya if Electro staff modifies the vibro knife damage it will be unblockable, because the vibro knife Die is the one doing the damage. Modify sides are called that because they modify the value of the base dice that they are being resolved with. In this case a Electro staffs +3 with a Vibro 1 base makes the Vibro knife a 4 damage die that is why you can not resolve modifiers without a base side because the modifier has to be adding to a Die to resolve, in short yes if you have Vibros 1 and have Electro staffs +3 and Makashi's +2 then you can resolve for 7 unblockable damage as all of the modifiers added to the Vibroknife die "Damage dealth by THIS DIE...." Vibroknife die is the one doing the damage the modifiers are Modifying the Vibro Die.

Read it carefully!  The vibroknife does 2 thing's  not 3.  

1: it's  die is unblockabe.  And

2: the die that it modifies is unblockabe.

No where does it say that die modifying it become unblockable.

I actually like it this way.

Edited October 25, 2017 by ozmodon

[Zamrod 5]

1 minute ago, ozmodon said:

Read it carefully!  The vibroknife does 2 thing's  not 3.  

1: it's  die is unblockabe.  And

2: the die that it modifies is unblockabe.

No where does it say that die modifying it become unblockable.

I actually like it this way.

Except because of the way that modification works, if it does one damage and you modify it by adding +3, then its die is now doing 4 damage. And damage dealt by its die is unblockable.

[ozmodon 535]

1 minute ago, Zamrod said:

Except because of the way that modification works, if it does one damage and you modify it by adding +3, then its die is now doing 4 damage. And damage dealt by its die is unblockable.

I can see both sides

[PeoplesChampion 44]

10 minutes ago, Zamrod said:

Except because of the way that modification works, if it does one damage and you modify it by adding +3, then its die is now doing 4 damage. And damage dealt by its die is unblockable.

I went back in the RRG, and it seems like your interpretation is correct. On page 8 it says, “While resolving the plus value is added to the other die to create a new value.” Therefore the It appears that resolving a Vibroknife 1 melee and a Mikashi +2 melee together would result in resolving the Vibroknife at 3, not two dice. The only other option would be to say that if you add a modifier to Vibroknife it wouldn’t be unblockable since the new value of 3 melee damage came from dice, but is not associated with any specific dice, and therefore doesn’t have the abilities of the dice. 

[Zamrod 5]

6 minutes ago, ozmodon said:

I can see both sides

The rules say: "Some dice have one or more blue sides with a plus sign (+) before the value. Sides with a plus can only be resolved at the same time as another die that shows the same symbol without a plus. While resolving, the plus value is added to the other die to create a new value."

The section on Count Dooku explains "If a die is spent with a modified die, that is one source of damage and Count Dooku can only gain 1 shield."

The rules also say: "Damage dealt during the same action is usually dealt at different times since the dice are resolved one at a time. The only time multiple dice deal damage at the exact same time is when a die is being modified by other dice."

It also says "A player cannot split the damage from a single die (or a die that has been modified) among different characters."

The key is that the plus value is added to the other die to create a new value which deals all of its damage simultaneously, counts as one source of damage, and cannot be split. A vibroknife that is showing 1 melee with a +3 modifier does 4 damage. Its damage can't be split up and either all of it goes through shields or none of it does.