HistoryGuy

FaD Sith Holocrons

18 posts in this topic

Has anyone ever tried introducing the Sith Holocron into their game and how did you do it?

I was thinking if they take it only one person can use it and it will increase their force rating by one, give one additional dark side pip to all force ckecks, and give them full access to one force tree of their choice. But having it will cause 5-7 conflict just for having it. If they give it up or destroy it then they lose the benefit but no longer recive the conflict. 

Edited by HistoryGuy

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Large and large theres no fast and easy route, but for two years my PC had a sentient lightsaber containing a sith spirit prior to it's loss to an inquisition cabal. It had a fairly simple effect, beyond being talkative to force users in corrupting influences, was that it removed the strain cost associated to spending Darkside pips, to make "drawing on the true power of the force" somewhat easier for it's naive occupant. 

The only thing is I would probably make a holocron generally appeal to more people; the sith being an order of 2 is a fairly recent development for a culture that once spanned an entire empire, mentoring can reduce the cost of access to certain force powers, and perhaps it should offer powers some might consider, unnatural. Bring back someone from the dead? Totally doable provided they recently died and that there is a healthy material compoment.

A large chunk of it would depend on your group however. We have only had one holocron in the party across 4/5 years, and that was stolen by an apprentice who believed the "Jedi way only belonged to him." being the Jedi in an otherwise emergent party.

Edited by LordBritish

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I have a player who I think is more hungry than he is letting on. I think the temptation of power will be too much for him to resist. I think then the other characters will become jealous and try to take it. Thus showing the corruption of the dark side.

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IMO, 5-7 Conflict just for having it is way excessive. That's almost guaranteed Dark Side in no time. A Sith Holocron should Tempt them to go to the Dark Side with lies and promises of power, not guarantee turning them just for possessing it. 

Edited by Tramp Graphics

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29 minutes ago, Tramp Graphics said:

IMO, 5-7 Conflict just for having it is way excessive. That's almost guaranteed Dark Side in no time. A Sith Holocron should Tempt them to go to the Dark Side with lies and promises of power, not guarantee turning them just for possessing it. 

I have to agree here. I can see giving them 1 point per session for having it (similar to some talents), but 5-7 seems heavy handed.

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2 hours ago, Tramp Graphics said:

A Sith Holocron should Tempt them to go to the Dark Side with lies and promises of power, not guarantee turning them just for possessing it. 

Ok. The other way I was thinking of doing it was 1 conflict for having it then +4 conflict for using it. Then which ever character has the Sith Holocron rolls a d8 for having it or a d6 for using it. Because with rolling a d10 for conflict at the end of a session could easily negate any conflict gained. I would think after using a Sith Holocron, some of the dark side influence would stay with you long term.

Edited by HistoryGuy

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7 minutes ago, HistoryGuy said:

*snip* Because with rolling a d10 for conflict at the end of a session could easily negate any conflict gained.

Initially this will probably be true, but (theoretically), the more they use it the more conflict they will amass. 

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Here's how using something like this should work.  It's 1 Conflict per session to own it, which is minor and mostly a speed-bump on the way to Light-Side Paragon.

Then, the characters are in a jam and really need some help.  They open the Holocron and ask the Gatekeeper for help.  He provides it to them.  What does it do?  It could be a lot of things, but allowing them to access higher tiers of Force powers than they've bought (as long as they use Dark Side pips to activate it), give them a powerful one-time bonus (for +3-5 Conflict), or something else.  The characters use it, and gain the boost of Conflict.  Some of them probably still come out neutral, some drop, but it's a one-time thing, so it's no big deal.  They can make the Morality up next session.

Except next session they're up against long odds again.  And having that boost that the holocron gives would be REALLY nice, wouldn't it?  So maybe the use it again.  And, I mean, after that, why not use it again?  No no, one use per session is more than enough.

Except, the odds just keep getting longer, and their regular training just isn't keeping up.  Now they're using it three times per session to achieve their goals (which keep getting grander and grander, as they're becoming more and more powerful).  Now they need the Holocron's power just to keep themselves even, and are taking the 3-5 Conflict hit two or even three times per session.

If you can work that in, that slow, creeping pull towards the dark, then you know you've succeeded :) .

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42 minutes ago, HistoryGuy said:

Ok. The other way I was thinking of doing it was 1 conflict for having it then +4 conflict for using it. Then which ever character has the Sith Holocron rolls a d8 for having it or a d6 for using it. Because with rolling a d10 for conflict at the end of a session could easily negate any conflict gained. I would think after using a Sith Holocron, some of the dark side influence would stay with you long term.

 

34 minutes ago, JorArns said:

Initially this will probably be true, but (theoretically), the more they use it the more conflict they will amass. 

@JorArns is correct. Really, the Conflict penalties should only be given if the character actually gives into the temptation to use the powers and knowledge from the Sith Holocron in question. 

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17 hours ago, HistoryGuy said:

I have a player who I think is more hungry than he is letting on. I think the temptation of power will be too much for him to resist. I think then the other characters will become jealous and try to take it. Thus showing the corruption of the dark side.

"We wants the preciouss." 

HistoryGuy and Matt Skywalker like this

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In addition to what Absol said, it's important to remember that conflict/morality is entirely dependent on player engagement to work. If you play it heavy-handedly, as per some of your earlier ideas, you'll just turn them off and be left with a nonfunctional system.

As for how I'd handle it, I'd treat it the same as having a Sith Lord mentor as per DoH, since that's effectively what you're working with. Some powers cost a bit less to learn and you double the morality drop if conflict is greater than the die roll.

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Is there a force ability that lets you steal another character's force rating or force ability? I'm thinking something like Darth Nihilus?

Edited by HistoryGuy

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There are a couple of things that let you copy someone else's ability and/or share it to others, but they don't take it away from the person being copied.

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8 hours ago, Garran said:

There are a couple of things that let you copy someone else's ability and/or share it to others, but they don't take it away from the person being copied.

@HistoryGuy As an addition to the above post, there are two abilities I am aware of that do what Garran mentioned, and both in the Consular book. I think it was called Peacefully Balancing the Balanced Peace, or some inane hippie garbage along those lines.

Anyway, the first ability is in the Teacher ability tree - it allows you to add your Force Rating to another character's once per session for a turn. That doesn't seem like much, but it's significantly more powerful than many other once per session abilities, and sometimes, your 1-2 Force Rating characters REALLY need to slam a light freighter into an Inquisitor. Or annoying civilians, if it's a slow session.

The second one is one of the Consular's signature abilities, and it lets someone else have access to a talent of yours for an encounter. Like the one that allows you to add your Force Rating to someone else's. Because sometimes you miss your target with that light freighter, and would like to try again.

Edited by Degenerate Mind
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There's a third one, also in the teacher tree: Now The Master, which lets you copy any one talent or force power that another character (PC or NPC) in the scene has, including all of its ranks or upgrades. The person that it's taken from doesn't lose it; you just have it now too.

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Allow holocron to add 1 darkside pip (or more if you want to make the holocron more powerful) to any force check, which PC controlling the holocron can use normally (normal conflict penalty for using dark side). For reference, see the talisman in Force and Destiny core rulebook adventure, Lessons from the Past, pages 431 and 433.

Also, if you want to manipulate PCs, they may begin to see dreams about future, after acquiring the holocron. In these visions you can manipulate PCs as holocron might. E.g. PCs might see a man beating their slave. Soon PCs find a merchant, which they recognise from their dream, who is jovial and nice, but his servant has a black eye. If slave is questioned she denies any abuse from his master. Or she might not a slave to begin with, but a paid servant. Give PCs enought rope and they will hang themselves. I find this manipulation aspect more interesting than any direct conflict.

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On 10/23/2017 at 0:53 PM, kkuja said:

Give PCs enought rope and they will hang themselves. I find this manipulation aspect more interesting than any direct conflict.

I agree. The Inquisitor would agree as well. How my PCs will even get it is my Inquisitor will have it on him during an encounter and will leave it behind for one reason or another. 

On 10/23/2017 at 2:43 AM, Garran said:

Now The Master, lets you copy any one talent or force power that another character (PC or NPC) in the scene has, including all of its ranks or upgrades. The person that it's taken from doesn't lose it; you just have it now too.

 I like this idea but however, to make it unique to the Holocron, I will have the target lose the power. 

It will have to be an opposed discipline vs discipline check with a Force die roll for both sides. It will take 2 Dark Side pips to activate. After that any left over pips will be used to add success to the user or failure for the defender.

I was also thinking to open the Holocron will be a three red dice Lore check with a force die roll that will need two dark side pips. On a Despair result the Holocron will bind itself to the PC and destroying it will cause psychical harm to that PC.

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