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Punning Pundit

Linked Battery B-Wings

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4 hours ago, Punning Pundit said:

I think if the B-Wing were more survivable, this upgrade would be worth the points. As it is, the Blue Squadron Pilot might be blown up before even firing a shot, so why bother putting more points into it?

What are you flying against, APT carriers? Outside of dengar and deadeye scouts(which are long gone) if your opponents are wasting time on a blue squadron pilot you should be able to wreck whatever they aren't shooting next turn.(outside of dengar and his shenanigans obviously).

that being said in order to keep the b-wing from being a point sink you really want either fcs, advanced sensors, or linked batteries. Fcs implies you'll be shooting for more than one round(which normally you'd want to take because you'd be shooting for more than one round), so that leaves advanced sensors, which will help you survive because you get your action no matter what maneuver you have planned. Linked batteries helps you re-roll one attack dice, which frees up your action to barrel roll or focus because you won't have as big a need to take a target lock assuming you aren't stressed. 

obviously you can always take both for 27 points or take neither for 22. 

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5 hours ago, Punning Pundit said:

With Linked Battery, the B-Wing will have the System slot open to continue taking Advanced Sensors, or be able to take something like Collision Detector, to get the most out of the B-Wing's barrel roll action. 

 

Blue-squadron-pilot.png

Bwing-e2.pngGunner.pngswx69-linked-battery.pngsensor-jammer.png

....annnnd, it's 34 pts, so you can't take 3 of them.

Oh, FFG, you joker, you!

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I think I like it better than FCS unless you need to fire torpedoes.  You'll get your rerolls on the first engagement, and have the flexibility to change targets freely.  I know folks are tossing out Advanced Sensors, but the points just aren't there for it.  Electronic Baffle, though, seems semi-plausible.  Focus-Reroll on the open, then 2-k into Focus-Reroll.  Seems like it would have been a solid list if these two upgrades were sent back in time to when the B-Wing was new.  These days?  Eh.  Low PS single-arc ships.

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On 10/20/2017 at 7:27 PM, blairbunke said:

Offense has never been a problem for b-wings there's tons of ways to spikes mods the problem for them is their horrible, horrible dial.  

B-wing offense hasn't exactly improved with the power creep. 3-4 unmodified attack dice is not exactly a meta defining trait any more. With all the rerolls, damage that isn't blocked by green dice and auto-modified red dice none of these have really fell on the B-wing unlike say the Y-wings which has been able to absorb the power creep in a much better way.

Edited by Marinealver

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On 21/10/2017 at 2:38 AM, xanderf said:

Blue-squadron-pilot.png

Bwing-e2.pngGunner.pngswx69-linked-battery.pngsensor-jammer.png

....annnnd, it's 34 pts, so you can't take 3 of them.

Oh, FFG, you joker, you!

Are u sure you didn't meant accuracy corrector in the system? Which actually allows for a 3x list.

Corrector gives you the ability to cancel first attack if you roll 1 hit. Then you attack again and on hits under 2 u use accuracy again and on 2 u try to roll for a third with the linked battery (If you rolled 2 on the first attack then u try directly to go for a third with the battery). This combined with focus should give you really good 3 hits chance (maybe worth doing the math) and a minimum of 2. 

so 24 hp with a consistent damage output.. and  I'm afraid is still not good enough for the meta.

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Ibtisam is still imo one of the better underrated B-Wings. I think I'll use Linked Battery on him:

Ibtisam (28)
Linked Battery (2)
B-E2 (1)
Hera Syndulla (1)

Veteran Instincts (1) or Trick Shot (0)
Collision Detector (0)

It's 32 or 33 points, so fits snugly as 1 of your 3-ship squadron.  You sacrifice actions for the sake of getting unrestricted re-rolls on all attacks and defenses (Ibtisam's native defense reroll helps you get occasionally an evade against all opponents--obviously better odds at R3 or behind obstacles). Hera allows you to always use your red maneuvers, without limitation. And between Linked Battery and Ibtisam, you have nearly a perma-TL against all targets. Take VI if you want initiative bid, or Trick Shot if you want a situational 4th attack die (knowing that two of those dice can be re-rolled against any opponent).

Having Hera and the flexibility to make multiple consecutive red maneuvers (especially since the dial has 1 hard turns and a 2 K-turn) makes up for losing the barrel roll to your accumulating stress. Collision Detector helps you stay unpredictable as you care less about going over asteroids with your red 4-straight maneuver to stay in the battle. You just have to be careful against Latts Razzi crew and Black Market Slicer Tools. And you never care about bumping, Jamming, Rebel Captive/Asajj Ventress/Tactician/Mara Jade/Fletchette. Additionally, if you have extra points sitting around, you can replace Collision Detector with Sensor Jammer for more staying-power, but I probably won't have that many points sitting around.

Arguably, re-rolling 2 attack dice in this case is better than FCS. FCS only works if you attack the same target on consecutive turns. It won't give you benefit on the first round of fire, or if you switch targets later on, or if you kill your target and move on to the next. I think this will do nicely. :)

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On 10/21/2017 at 0:57 PM, blairbunke said:

Offense has never been a problem for b-wings there's tons of ways to spikes mods the problem for them is their horrible, horrible dial.  

I agree. They need their own twin ion engine card in title form.

1 hour ago, Ziusdra said:

Ibtisam is still imo one of the better underrated B-Wings. I think I'll use Linked Battery on him:

Ibtisam (28)
Linked Battery (2)
B-E2 (1)
Hera Syndulla (1)

Veteran Instincts (1) or Trick Shot (0)
Collision Detector (0)

It's 32 or 33 points, so fits snugly as 1 of your 3-ship squadron.  You sacrifice actions for the sake of getting unrestricted re-rolls on all attacks and defenses (Ibtisam's native defense reroll helps you get occasionally an evade against all opponents--obviously better odds at R3 or behind obstacles). Hera allows you to always use your red maneuvers, without limitation. And between Linked Battery and Ibtisam, you have nearly a perma-TL against all targets. Take VI if you want initiative bid, or Trick Shot if you want a situational 4th attack die (knowing that two of those dice can be re-rolled against any opponent).

Having Hera and the flexibility to make multiple consecutive red maneuvers (especially since the dial has 1 hard turns and a 2 K-turn) makes up for losing the barrel roll to your accumulating stress. Collision Detector helps you stay unpredictable as you care less about going over asteroids with your red 4-straight maneuver to stay in the battle. You just have to be careful against Latts Razzi crew and Black Market Slicer Tools. And you never care about bumping, Jamming, Rebel Captive/Asajj Ventress/Tactician/Mara Jade/Fletchette. Additionally, if you have extra points sitting around, you can replace Collision Detector with Sensor Jammer for more staying-power, but I probably won't have that many points sitting around.

Arguably, re-rolling 2 attack dice in this case is better than FCS. FCS only works if you attack the same target on consecutive turns. It won't give you benefit on the first round of fire, or if you switch targets later on, or if you kill your target and move on to the next. I think this will do nicely. :)

Ibtisam with wired and Hera crew offers more re-rolls, as well as working on both attack and defence whilst she's stressed, and its cheaper. I don't see how linked battery is a better option on her.

I think linked battery only really helps the generic B-wings, and non-Rage Farlander builds. Farlander with PTL, linked battery and collision detector would be quite a nice setup. Nera doesn't really benefit from Linked Battery though, nor does Ten as he will still prefer mangler.

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1 hour ago, BVRCH said:

I agree. They need their own twin ion engine card in title form.

Ibtisam with wired and Hera crew offers more re-rolls, as well as working on both attack and defence whilst she's stressed, and its cheaper. I don't see how linked battery is a better option on her.

I think linked battery only really helps the generic B-wings, and non-Rage Farlander builds. Farlander with PTL, linked battery and collision detector would be quite a nice setup. Nera doesn't really benefit from Linked Battery though, nor does Ten as he will still prefer mangler.

Wired is more potential rerolls, but Linked battery offers BETTER rerolls. Being able to reroll a blank and 2 eye results, is worse than being able to reroll 2 blank results, and turn an eye to a crit with A Debt to Pay (at least against the primary target).

On the defense, Ibtisam already gets a free reroll on her 1 defence die. Being able to reroll a long range or obstructed roll is nice, but not something that can be counted on- and you're more likely to get a natural evade on one of the two dice than a focus result, meaning the extra reroll is wasted.

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5 hours ago, Ziusdra said:

Ibtisam is still imo one of the better underrated B-Wings. I think I'll use Linked Battery on him:

Ibtisam (28)
Linked Battery (2)
B-E2 (1)
Hera Syndulla (1)

Veteran Instincts (1) or Trick Shot (0)
Collision Detector (0)

It's 32 or 33 points, so fits snugly as 1 of your 3-ship squadron.  You sacrifice actions for the sake of getting unrestricted re-rolls on all attacks and defenses (Ibtisam's native defense reroll helps you get occasionally an evade against all opponents--obviously better odds at R3 or behind obstacles). Hera allows you to always use your red maneuvers, without limitation. And between Linked Battery and Ibtisam, you have nearly a perma-TL against all targets. Take VI if you want initiative bid, or Trick Shot if you want a situational 4th attack die (knowing that two of those dice can be re-rolled against any opponent).

Having Hera and the flexibility to make multiple consecutive red maneuvers (especially since the dial has 1 hard turns and a 2 K-turn) makes up for losing the barrel roll to your accumulating stress. Collision Detector helps you stay unpredictable as you care less about going over asteroids with your red 4-straight maneuver to stay in the battle. You just have to be careful against Latts Razzi crew and Black Market Slicer Tools. And you never care about bumping, Jamming, Rebel Captive/Asajj Ventress/Tactician/Mara Jade/Fletchette. Additionally, if you have extra points sitting around, you can replace Collision Detector with Sensor Jammer for more staying-power, but I probably won't have that many points sitting around.

Arguably, re-rolling 2 attack dice in this case is better than FCS. FCS only works if you attack the same target on consecutive turns. It won't give you benefit on the first round of fire, or if you switch targets later on, or if you kill your target and move on to the next. I think this will do nicely. :)

The thing about named B-wings is B-wings is really best in an economy position being able to bring a lot of firepower for the fairly modest price of low 20. Once you go past 24 points B-wings have lost a lot of their value as that means you have just sacrificed another ship. If you want 4 ships, you need to keep your ships below 26 points or now you are down to 3 ships. And rerolls does not necessarily replace the 2-3 firepower plus 4-8 hit points.

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8 minutes ago, Marinealver said:

The thing about named B-wings is B-wings is really best in an economy position being able to bring a lot of firepower for the fairly modest price of low 20. Once you go past 24 points B-wings have lost a lot of their value as that means you have just sacrificed another ship. If you want 4 ships, you need to keep your ships below 26 points or now you are down to 3 ships. And rerolls does not necessarily replace the 2-3 firepower plus 4-8 hit points.

Why are you flying 4 identical b-wings? Why are you spamming ships?  Going over 25 pts is not robbing the list of another ship!  Or am I missing something...

 

i dunno, I’m drunk on GUNBOATS at the moment.  GUNBOATS and beer.

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I think linked cannons is a solid addition for Sunny, and a decent upgrade for B wings. I would keep it cheap at 24 points with Collision Detector and have no fear of debris because I get to ignore crits and always get rerolls anyway. Comparing to FCS, while it is an amazing upgrade, I think I prefer linked because you get it when you change targets, and on the crucial 1st round of combat. I like the Ibitsam build, but it is unfortunate it doesn't help 'ol Nera out on her torp turret, too.

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2 hours ago, Rakaydos said:

Wired is more potential rerolls, but Linked battery offers BETTER rerolls. Being able to reroll a blank and 2 eye results, is worse than being able to reroll 2 blank results, and turn an eye to a crit with A Debt to Pay (at least against the primary target).

On the defense, Ibtisam already gets a free reroll on her 1 defence die. Being able to reroll a long range or obstructed roll is nice, but not something that can be counted on- and you're more likely to get a natural evade on one of the two dice than a focus result, meaning the extra reroll is wasted.

I don't agree. But each to their own. I don't see how 'being able to reroll a blank and 2 eye results, is worse than being able to reroll 2 blank results', as your chances of rolling a blank and rolling a focus are equal per die. Like I said before its also cheaper, and I'd personally rather have the wired re-rolls against anyone, than DtP conversions on a ship that is most likely avoiding Ibtisam anway.  

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25 minutes ago, GrimmyV said:

Why are you flying 4 identical b-wings? Why are you spamming ships?  Going over 25 pts is not robbing the list of another ship!  Or am I missing something...

 

i dunno, I’m drunk on GUNBOATS at the moment.  GUNBOATS and beer.

If a ship uses up 1/4 of your the most you can take is 6 ships. If it uses 1/3 of your list you only end up with 5. Now of course this is assuming you are doing a single ship and swarm so most likely moving from 21-25 point ship to a 26-32 point ship will likely take out another ship. So going above 25 points will likely decrease the number of ships in your list from 4-5 ships down to 3-4 ships.

But yeah Gunboats are cool but this thread is about B-wings.

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On 10/20/2017 at 7:38 PM, xanderf said:

Blue-squadron-pilot.png

Bwing-e2.pngGunner.pngswx69-linked-battery.pngsensor-jammer.png

....annnnd, it's 34 pts, so you can't take 3 of them.

Oh, FFG, you joker, you!

Throw Baze instead of gunner on one and you can fit your 3 ships and still pull off 6 attacks in the right situation.  

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11 minutes ago, pickirk01 said:

Throw Baze instead of gunner on one and you can fit your 3 ships and still pull off 6 attacks in the right situation.  

Baze is just terrible and is no where near comparasion of Gunner. Unless you pair him with tactician that is the only time Baze switching targets is a benefit. If you only have 1 target in arc, Baze is a waste of points.

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3 hours ago, GrimmyV said:

Why are you flying 4 identical b-wings? Why are you spamming ships?  Going over 25 pts is not robbing the list of another ship!  Or am I missing something...

 

i dunno, I’m drunk on GUNBOATS at the moment.  GUNBOATS and beer.

B Wings are an efficiency ship, basically.  They win by having so many shields and hull that your opponent struggles to kill them before their weight of reds kills him.

Making them a lot more expensive, and you make them a lot less efficient.

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12 hours ago, Andreu said:

Are u sure you didn't meant accuracy corrector in the system? Which actually allows for a 3x list.

Not really, because it doesn't strike me as pairing with Linked Battery all that well; you'll waste one or the other on each attack.

I think people are right:

  • It's not an earthshaking 'fix'
  • It does, nontheless, improve the B-wing
  • It does so by moving the Fire Control System to the cannon slot (more or less)
    • It's not quite as good as a Fire Control System (only 1 die rerolled and can't be used to fire ordnance)
    • It works on every attack including the first, doesn't care if you switch targets, and isn't susceptible to countermeasures or black one
  • It's not so much better or worse than an FCS B-wing that it's going to make a big honking difference
  • The value, therefore, is what you can put into the systems slot as well.

Sensor Jammer is too expensive and - to be honest - not all that great unless you've got a means to prevent people using focus tokens or expertise.

Accuracy Corrector is eh, not because it's not good, but because on a 3-dice primary with innate action-free rerolls, it's just not needed.

Advanced Sensors is and always has been a good choice for the B-wing. It makes Barrel Roll much more flexible, and opens up the red bits of its dial. 3 such ships aren't obviously earthshaking but they definitely seem worth a further look.

 

More importantly to me, it also works on the Lambda Shuttle, allowing the near-critical advanced sensors/electronic baffle to let it actually turn corners whilst still being able to achieve something if it actually gets a shot. Probably. :ph34r:

  • Omicron Group Pilot
    • Electronic Baffle
    • Linked Battery
    • Gunner
    • Engine Upgrade

I for one welcome our new spacecow overlords.

 

It's also a scary piece of so-and-so on IG-88, I suspect.

Edited by Magnus Grendel

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17 minutes ago, Magnus Grendel said:

More importantly to me, it also works on the Lambda Shuttle, allowing the near-critical advanced sensors/electronic baffle to let it actually turn corners whilst still being able to achieve something if it actually gets a shot. Probably. :ph34r:

  • Omicron Group Pilot
    • Electronic Baffle
    • Linked Battery
    • Gunner
    • Engine Upgrade

I for one welcome our new spacecow overlords.

 

It's also a scary piece of so-and-so on IG-88, I suspect.

Aren't you forgetting something there?
 

latest?cb=20171020203935

Edited by Hannes Solo

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