Giled's Quest for Star Destroyer Dominance

[GiledPallaeon 2,873]

I've been thinking about this for a while, and I have come to the conclusion that I would like to use the workup to Regionals (the month and a half that I get) as an experiment. The experiment is this: I want a dual ISD fleet that is a viable tournament list. This thread exists as a measure of public accountability. For the next while I will be conducting tests, using both Vassal and Q4 tourneys, to build up a fighting machine that includes two Pizza Slices of Doom (sides of Gloom free of charge), and whatever else it takes to make this list work. As I progress, I will post thoughts and tested lists here for critique. Admiral Sloane has served me well, earning me a Store Championship and second place in the Autumn Tournament (there ain't no way in **** I'm beating Roquax, and if I somehow do, I'll eat my words), and if she works out well for the new fleet I'll take her, but I'm open-minded.

Why am I doing this? Great question. Reason number one is that I own two ISDs (soon to become three as soon as FFG's definition of Q4 arrives), and I haven't had a chance to fly them as a pair for several months. While I used it, I got a great kick out of using the old dreadnought list that ran both of them with my Interdictor as a high-hull, Come At Me, Bro type of list, and I want to find a way to rejigger the list now that I have fresh options in Star Destroyers. Unfortunately, it looks like I'll be forced to use I-1s and I-2s solely for the Regional* (FFG, please prove me wrong), without any of the new ships or upgrades coming with the Chimaera, so lists involving those units take priority for testing.

Other things to note: I have been told, most recently by @CaribbeanNinja, that I play extremely aggressively. I'm not 100% sure the "extremely" is warranted, but I do know I'm on the aggressive end of the spectrum, particularly since my instinct when faced with a choice is "**** the torpedoes, full speed ahead!" Dual ISDs should work well with this, since they are often durable enough to put up with the extra punishment my tactics inflict on them (though Lord knows I've lost more than my fair share of ships). The other big thing, I really don't care what the rest of the list looks like, just that it works well. If that means I imitate the dual ISD list that did well at Gencon, I'll do that. If it means I try something similar to my Vassal Freshman Tournament fleet from ages and ages ago (two I-1s, ASq Raider, two Gozantis), I'll use that. I'm very open to whatever ideas my fellow Imperial players have, or if Rebel scum are willing to offer up whatever they have fought that terrified them/worked well.

I'm not sure if starting with I-2s to allow myself the opportunity to remain at longer ranges for combat effectiveness is useful or if I should lean into my aggressive nature and go with I-1s for close-quarters brawling, or one of each. I'll start with some starter lists below, and I'll take suggestions/start flying from there. None have AvengerBT mostly because I haven't flown it much yet, so I'm not comfortable automatically throwing it in. I'm sure eventually I'll fly a list including it, but for now it's out.

Motti's Dreadnoughts Mark 7
Author: GiledPallaeon

Faction: Galactic Empire
Points: 400/400

Commander: Admiral Motti

Assault Objective: Station Assault
Defense Objective: Contested Outpost
Navigation Objective: Solar Corona

Interdictor-class Suppression Refit (90 points)
-  Interdictor  ( 3  points)
-  Targeting Scrambler  ( 5  points)
-  Grav Shift Reroute  ( 2  points)
= 100 total ship cost

[ flagship ] Imperial II-Class Star Destroyer (120 points)
-  Admiral Motti  ( 24  points)
-  Gunnery Team  ( 7  points)
-  Electronic Countermeasures  ( 7  points)
-  Leading Shots  ( 4  points)
= 162 total ship cost

Imperial II-Class Star Destroyer (120 points)
-  Gunnery Team  ( 7  points)
-  Electronic Countermeasures  ( 7  points)
-  Leading Shots  ( 4  points)
= 138 total ship cost

 

Motti's Dreadnoughts Mark 8
Author: GiledPallaeon

Faction: Galactic Empire
Points: 397/400

Commander: Admiral Motti

Assault Objective: Most Wanted
Defense Objective: Contested Outpost
Navigation Objective: Solar Corona

[ flagship ] Imperial II-Class Star Destroyer (120 points)
-  Admiral Motti  ( 24  points)
-  Skilled First Officer  ( 1  points)
-  Gunnery Team  ( 7  points)
-  Electronic Countermeasures  ( 7  points)
-  X17 Turbolasers  ( 6  points)
-  Leading Shots  ( 4  points)
= 169 total ship cost

Imperial II-Class Star Destroyer (120 points)
-  Skilled First Officer  ( 1  points)
-  Gunnery Team  ( 7  points)
-  Electronic Countermeasures  ( 7  points)
-  X17 Turbolasers  ( 6  points)
-  Leading Shots  ( 4  points)
= 145 total ship cost

Raider-I Class Corvette (44 points)
-  Impetuous  ( 4  points)
-  Agent Kallus  ( 3  points)
-  Ordnance Experts  ( 4  points)
-  Flechette Torpedoes  ( 3  points)
= 58 total ship cost

Gozanti-class Cruisers (23 points)
-  Comms Net  ( 2  points)
= 25 total ship cost

 

Gencon Derivative Mark 1
Author: GiledPallaeon

Faction: Galactic Empire
Points: 398/400

Commander: Admiral Motti

Assault Objective: Blockade Run
Defense Objective: Contested Outpost
Navigation Objective: Superior Positions

Imperial I-Class Star Destroyer (110 points)
-  Hondo Ohnaka  ( 2  points)
-  Flight Controllers  ( 6  points)
-  Expanded Hangar Bay  ( 5  points)
-  Boosted Comms  ( 4  points)
-  X17 Turbolasers  ( 6  points)
-  Leading Shots  ( 4  points)
= 137 total ship cost

[ flagship ] Imperial II-Class Star Destroyer (120 points)
-  Admiral Motti  ( 24  points)
-  Relentless  ( 3  points)
-  Skilled First Officer  ( 1  points)
-  Gunnery Team  ( 7  points)
-  Electronic Countermeasures  ( 7  points)
-  X17 Turbolasers  ( 6  points)
-  Leading Shots  ( 4  points)
= 172 total ship cost

1 Colonel Jendon ( 20 points)
1 Maarek Steele ( 21 points)
3 TIE Defender Squadrons ( 48 points)

 

The Sophomore Fleet**
Author: GiledPallaeon

Faction: Galactic Empire
Points: 393/400

Commander: Moff Jerjerrod

Assault Objective: Advanced Gunnery
Defense Objective: Contested Outpost
Navigation Objective: Solar Corona

Gozanti-class Cruisers (23 points)
-  Comms Net  ( 2  points)
= 25 total ship cost

Gozanti-class Cruisers (23 points)
-  Comms Net  ( 2  points)
= 25 total ship cost

Raider-I Class Corvette (44 points)
-  Impetuous  ( 4  points)
-  Agent Kallus  ( 3  points)
-  Ordnance Experts  ( 4  points)
-  Flechette Torpedoes  ( 3  points)
= 58 total ship cost

[ flagship ] Imperial I-Class Star Destroyer (110 points)
-  Moff Jerjerrod  ( 23  points)
-  Skilled First Officer  ( 1  points)
-  Ordnance Experts  ( 4  points)
-  H9 Turbolasers  ( 8  points)
-  High-Capacity Ion Turbines  ( 8  points)
= 154 total ship cost

Imperial I-Class Star Destroyer (110 points)
-  Skilled First Officer  ( 1  points)
-  Ordnance Experts  ( 4  points)
-  H9 Turbolasers  ( 8  points)
-  High-Capacity Ion Turbines  ( 8  points)
= 131 total ship cost

*This gives me the advantage I can use Ryan Kingston's builder for random ideas, which is nice because it is my preferred builder. If only it had a text output option...

**Credit to @Snipafist for the "Bruiser Extraordinaire" builds on the two ISDs. They may end up refit with XI7s, but that is a matter for field testing.

Edited October 20, 2017 by GiledPallaeon
Don't post at 2am kids

[Coldhands 418]

I Think JJ is the way, Getting into favorable positions, avoiding arcs could result in dodging damage before They could occur, or kills otherwise would be impossible. 3 hulls...meh. You sacrifice opportunities you Will not have with motti. You can spam navigate but wont be the same while spamming repair with jj can compensate 3 hull. Also, an Experience: 1x2 and 1x1 is optimal. Montferrat is awesome on the flagship, if you use jj.

[Megatronrex 2,867]

Personally I lean towards the Gencon Derivative but those "Bruiser Extraordinaire" ISDs have me mighty interested. I've never flown one even close to that setup before but I could see it being very nasty.

[GiledPallaeon 2,873]

6 hours ago, Coldhands said:

Also, an Experience: 1x2 and 1x1 is optimal.

What does this mean? One I-1 and one I-2?

[Undeadguy 5,749]

What about doing something a bit weird. Run IO instead of a turbolaser on ISD IIs. I've had success with Dual Vics with IO+DC+GT+QBT, where QBT was not always used. 

JJ let's you do some crazy moves, so you can CF more often, or Repair. I'd suggest running 2 Comms Net since they are vital support ships for ISDs IMO. Ciena/Valen as the standard squad component. 

My objectives would be Station Assault, Contested Outpost, and Solar Corona, all of which dictate deployment, so you can have your ISDs in the correct position. 

 

I'm waiting to run dual Cymoons with Vader, but that doesn't help right now.

[Snipafist 7,541]

My preference is the Jerry fleet, personally, but the lower-activation Motti ones could do fine too. You're going to need to blow through a ship or two and then book it against squadron fleets.

The Bruiser Extraordinaire ISD-I build is pretty enjoyable, for what it's worth. Just run all up in people's business and swat down those corvettes that are capable of trying to sneak around your side arcs. Once the Kuat comes out it may be made redundant, although the Kuat can't guarantee accuracy results like the ISD-I build can...

[anonymousguy 119]

Comms Net Gozantis are a vital support piece to an all/mostly ships fleet, I tend to take at least two.

Raiders are always nice complements, they can also take a boarding team to support the ISDs, OP on a raider is nice too for support.

[GiledPallaeon 2,873]

2 hours ago, Megatronrex said:

Personally I lean towards the Gencon Derivative but those "Bruiser Extraordinaire" ISDs have me mighty interested. I've never flown one even close to that setup before but I could see it being very nasty.

The beauty of that build is how cheap it is per unit lethality, so I can drop the Raider and one Gozanti and slot in my standard squad list (Jendon, Stele, and Friends). Still three activations, and without the other trappings, I'll probably lose a Defender faster than the Autumn tournament did (though I took remarkably few squad casualties with one notable exception) so relying on a squad token for someone should be fine. 

1 hour ago, Undeadguy said:

What about doing something a bit weird. Run IO instead of a turbolaser on ISD IIs. I've had success with Dual Vics with IO+DC+GT+QBT, where QBT was not always used. 

JJ let's you do some crazy moves, so you can CF more often, or Repair. I'd suggest running 2 Comms Net since they are vital support ships for ISDs IMO. Ciena/Valen as the standard squad component. 

My objectives would be Station Assault, Contested Outpost, and Solar Corona, all of which dictate deployment, so you can have your ISDs in the correct position. 

 

I'm waiting to run dual Cymoons with Vader, but that doesn't help right now.

The IO idea intrigues me. Almost every ship that is fitted with a turbolaser either has H-9s or SFO, so net points change is zero (or negative). I will see what lists can fit them onboard. 

I wholeheartedly, or rather as Phil Breedlove is so fond of saying, I "violently" agree with your objectives assessment. The only one that's even debatable is Most Wanted when the list has a flotilla to spare. And that's less for the points than the extra die I get when I shoot at something like a Home One or a Liberty.

I have a list that's theoretically similar to a dual Cymoon, using two Arqs with EA instead of the second. If Wave 7 arrives in time I may run it for shock value, but I'm not holding my breath.

1 hour ago, Snipafist said:

My preference is the Jerry fleet, personally, but the lower-activation Motti ones could do fine too. You're going to need to blow through a ship or two and then book it against squadron fleets.

The Bruiser Extraordinaire ISD-I build is pretty enjoyable, for what it's worth. Just run all up in people's business and swat down those corvettes that are capable of trying to sneak around your side arcs. Once the Kuat comes out it may be made redundant, although the Kuat can't guarantee accuracy results like the ISD-I build can...

I'm still not sure if the Kuat will actually improve matters. I get Ordnance and ECM/RBD, in exchange for the H-9s. APTs, or even ACMs, are not necessarily and often worse than a blocked Brace. Time will tell, I suppose.

To reply to both you and Undeadgiy at once, anywhere I have Motti right now is somewhere I'm also willing to put JJ. In fact, almost any Imperial commander fits one of these fleets. Some are non-optimal (Tagge and Konstantine are gimmicky, Tarkin is expensive, Sloane needs one fielding some fighters) but they all *can* work. Motti is the default, followed by JJ.

[PT106 2,316]

I like your approach I'm also thinking about using a 2ISD fleet in at least some of the regionals (I played one (5 activations Motti squadronless) at Nova, got pretty decent results and feel that the concept is still pretty viable). Several thoughts:

1. In a hyperagressive fleets my usual admiral of choice is Motti. JJ presents an interesting alternative, however I discovered that extra hull usually matters more (as in extra round of shooting or surviving), especially given that Motti's hull does provide extra protection against squadrons.

2. I second the statement that asymmetrical ISD builds are better (as long as you have the points), as they allow you to deal with a wider range of threats. I usually end  up with an expensive ISD2 flagship + cheap ISD1 mix, but I assume that there are other ways to build that.

3. I'm not convinced that Kallus flechette Raider is the way to go (especially in a 4 activations fleet). It is pretty expensive and good bomber fleets are usually fine-tuned to eat a raider in a single round of bombing, negating the advantage. I discovered that Kallus is a better fit on a flagship to pair it with QLT and farm squadrons or troll Sloane fleets

4. On the other hand adding a Raider to a 2ISD fleet is almost always a good idea, as the ship is cheap enough to be lost and dangerous enough to not be discounted (and I strongly believe that successful 2ISD fleets do need to have a third threat, either a ship or a set of squadrons)

5. I would recommend against AvengerBT, as it is an one-trick pony and neuters that ISD for any other use (both upgrades-wise and dial-wise). For playing Avenger, I think that Avenger+Supressor is a better combo choice.

6. Any build that you would use should have at least one (and preferably 2) ways to deal with flotillas. So I would second a thought of potentially using Intel Officer on one of the ISDs.

7. I would recommend to take a look at Quad Battery Turret - it's cheap and may be a good fit on LS-equipped ISD2.

[Coldhands 418]

3 hours ago, GiledPallaeon said:

What does this mean? One I-1 and one I-2?

Yes, 1 ISDI and 1 ISD2. Sorry, I was in a hurry to finish the post, my boss popped up out of nowhere

3 hours ago, Undeadguy said:

 I'd suggest running 2 Comms Net since they are vital support ships for ISDs IMO. Ciena/Valen as the standard squad component. 

My objectives would be Station Assault, Contested Outpost, and Solar Corona, all of which dictate deployment, so you can have your ISDs in the correct position. 

 

Completely agree on 2 telecom ships, my preference is to have a movement token always, then repair, and cf. 

About objectives: station assault and contested outpost is okay if you use Motti as admiral, since these objectives require you to be sort of 'inactive'. But, they are limiting. Limits you, your movements. you have to be there and there in order to score/prevent scoring, meaning its easy to calculate your movements. I think its safe to go for most wanted if a flotilla is present in your fleet, or you can go a bit risky with advanced gunnery if you use a BtAvenger. Yellow is a bit tricky, if you don't want to give free points to your opponent, planetary ion cannon has some sort of synergy with Avenger, but its a free damage anyway. Solar corona is a no brainer, but dangerous territory might work if you want to use obstacles to hide yourself from bombers, and lets you fly absolutely freely. 

[Undeadguy 5,749]

1 minute ago, Coldhands said:

About objectives: station assault and contested outpost is okay if you use Motti as admiral, since these objectives require you to be sort of 'inactive'. But, they are limiting. Limits you, your movements. you have to be there and there in order to score/prevent scoring, meaning its easy to calculate your movements. I think its safe to go for most wanted if a flotilla is present in your fleet, or you can go a bit risky with advanced gunnery if you use a BtAvenger. Yellow is a bit tricky, if you don't want to give free points to your opponent, planetary ion cannon has some sort of synergy with Avenger, but its a free damage anyway. Solar corona is a no brainer, but dangerous territory might work if you want to use obstacles to hide yourself from bombers, and lets you fly absolutely freely. 

If you run low activations, you should pick objectives that give you advantage in deployment and where you fight. 

Both SA and CO force your opponent to a certain part of the map. They may not be the ideal objectives to play in terms of freedom of movement and point gain, but you also are not chasing your opponent. You sit and earn points.

SC is good because you have low deployments, and this mitigates that. If you run 2 ISDs, DT is terrible since you have 2-4 deployments, depending if you take squads or not. I'm not sure how effective DT would be since you lose deployment advantage and it washes for points. A well timed Repair mitigates any damage your opponent would take. If you have 6-8 deployments, DT would be a decent choice.

Taking JJ also improves your reaction time and repositioning, which is critical for low activation fleets. Being able to swing your GT front arc onto fresh targets every round is great when your opponent takes SA or CO.

 

The same logic applies to playing first player. You should take an objective that forces engagement if you have the bigger ships. I almost always pick CO because I know I can force my opponent off the station by the end of round 3 with aggressive flying, and it works most of the time. It's the same reason I'd never take SC. I want my ships to be in the right position. 

[Coldhands 418]

8 minutes ago, Undeadguy said:

If you run low activations, you should pick objectives that give you advantage in deployment and where you fight. 

Both SA and CO force your opponent to a certain part of the map. They may not be the ideal objectives to play in terms of freedom of movement and point gain, but you also are not chasing your opponent. You sit and earn points.

SC is good because you have low deployments, and this mitigates that. If you run 2 ISDs, DT is terrible since you have 2-4 deployments, depending if you take squads or not. I'm not sure how effective DT would be since you lose deployment advantage and it washes for points. A well timed Repair mitigates any damage your opponent would take. If you have 6-8 deployments, DT would be a decent choice.

Taking JJ also improves your reaction time and repositioning, which is critical for low activation fleets. Being able to swing your GT front arc onto fresh targets every round is great when your opponent takes SA or CO.

 

The same logic applies to playing first player. You should take an objective that forces engagement if you have the bigger ships. I almost always pick CO because I know I can force my opponent off the station by the end of round 3 with aggressive flying, and it works most of the time. It's the same reason I'd never take SC. I want my ships to be in the right position. 

Yeah, but also you force yourself into the very same position, chaining yourself. I think I had enough games playing passive fleets to know they aren't the best, or at least not my cup of tea. Don't be bullied, be the bully

SC: also a bit of extra protection for flotillas without offering possible extra points for the opponent.

[GiledPallaeon 2,873]

So it sounds like @Undeadguy and @Coldhands have something of a doctrinal difference going on here. For myself, I lean slightly towards Undeadguy's battlespace control, if only because it lets me guess a little less about where my enemy has to deploy and where he has to fly. Whether I'm running JJ or Motti, having to chase my enemies that much less is worth something, specifically the edge I gain by being more precise on approaches for double arcs.

I have also logged my first test, using The Sophomore Fleet Mark 1A (fleet below). I've read everything here, and I decided if I was really going to go in on the bruisers, I was going to try equipping both with IO. That left enough points for two CN Gozantis, and a Raider packing OE and ER, and I got a one point bid to boot. @I_shot_first was kind enough to proffer himself, with a dual Home One Ackbar list (also below) as my first victim. We played Fleet Ambush (I was first player), and had ourselves a three round slugging match. I forgot to take pictures, but the rough deployment was thus: One Star Destroyer (Manticore, otherwise known as Not Flag) was in the left Rebel side corner of the ambush zone, pointed diagonally towards the right Rebel deployment zone corner. Facing her was Defiance, with Home One pointing directly at Manticore's stern, so he started off with a double arc. (Defiance started out of range.) Behind Manticore, facing Home One, was Samothrace, the other ISD with Motti onboard, with Hawkwing (the Raider) in the opposite ambush zone corner from Manticore. Behind Samothrace were both Gozantis, which spent all game chasing their larger charges and feeding tokens to whoever they could reach.

The actual battle was fairly brutal. Manticore spent all three turns of the game caught in the crossfire of Home One and Defiance, but was usually in black range of one or both ships so was returning the damage fairly effectively. She also accounted for the GR-75 on the opening round of the game with a front arc salvo. Samothrace screamed into the space Manticore vacated, locked down Ackbar, and blew him to Kingdom Come with a double arc on the end of turn 2, with supporting fire from her sister. Hawkwing never actually fired her weapons, having tried to circle behind Defiance, misjudged the approach, ate an Ackbar side arc T2, then a regular side arc T3 that killed her because I had allowed Manticore, which had one hull, the first activation that round. Manticore died top of 3 after emptying a double arc into Defiance, then followed by the fifth ram she had either received or given. Samothrace finished Defiance with a double arc after it moved up, fresh off destroying Home One with a ram of her own. (The ram was end of T2 for the kill.)

Notes: I need to learn how to optimize Intel Officers. If someone could lay down some rules of thumb, I'd appreciate it. (E.g. do you use side arc first with IO and hope they burn it, or front arc first with IO and side arc as followup?) Second, these Star Destroyers are vicious if you let them get double arcs. Black dice were everywhere, and their consistency was devastating (the reds less so). Motti's durability was very useful here to absorb the sustained ram damage, but I imagine against more fleet-footed opponents (e.g. MC30 swarms) I'll need JJ to catch my targets where I want them.

The Sophomore Fleet Mark 1A
Author: GiledPallaeon

Faction: Galactic Empire
Points: 399/400

Commander: Admiral Motti

Assault Objective: Station Assault
Defense Objective: Contested Outpost
Navigation Objective: Solar Corona

[ flagship ] Imperial I-Class Star Destroyer (110 points)
-  Admiral Motti  ( 24  points)
-  Intel Officer  ( 7  points)
-  Ordnance Experts  ( 4  points)
-  H9 Turbolasers  ( 8  points)
-  High-Capacity Ion Turbines  ( 8  points)
= 161 total ship cost

Imperial I-Class Star Destroyer (110 points)
-  Intel Officer  ( 7  points)
-  Ordnance Experts  ( 4  points)
-  H9 Turbolasers  ( 8  points)
-  High-Capacity Ion Turbines  ( 8  points)
= 137 total ship cost

Raider-I Class Corvette (44 points)
-  Ordnance Experts  ( 4  points)
-  External Racks  ( 3  points)
= 51 total ship cost

Gozanti-class Cruisers (23 points)
-  Comms Net  ( 2  points)
= 25 total ship cost

Gozanti-class Cruisers (23 points)
-  Comms Net  ( 2  points)
= 25 total ship cost

 

I Shot First - Test

Faction: Rebel Alliance
Points: 403/400

Commander: Admiral Ackbar

Assault Objective: Advanced Gunnery
Defense Objective: Fleet Ambush
Navigation Objective: Minefields

MC80 Assault Cruiser (114 points)
-  Defiance  ( 5  points)
-  Support Officer  ( 4  points)
-  Projection Experts  ( 6  points)
-  Advanced Projectors  ( 6  points)
-  Electronic Countermeasures  ( 7  points)
-  X17 Turbolasers  ( 6  points)
-  Leading Shots  ( 4  points)
= 152 total ship cost

[ flagship ] MC80 Command Cruiser (106 points)
-  Admiral Ackbar  ( 38  points)
-  Home One  ( 7  points)
-  Raymus Antilles  ( 7  points)
-  Projection Experts  ( 6  points)
-  Advanced Projectors  ( 6  points)
-  X17 Turbolasers  ( 6  points)
-  Leading Shots  ( 4  points)
= 180 total ship cost

GR-75 Medium Transports (18 points)
-  Toryn Farr  ( 7  points)
-  Comms Net  ( 2  points)
= 27 total ship cost

1 Gold Squadron ( 12 points)
2 YT-2400s ( 32 points)

[Undeadguy 5,749]

45 minutes ago, GiledPallaeon said:

So it sounds like @Undeadguy and @Coldhands have something of a doctrinal difference going on here. For myself, I lean slightly towards Undeadguy's battlespace control, if only because it lets me guess a little less about where my enemy has to deploy and where he has to fly. Whether I'm running JJ or Motti, having to chase my enemies that much less is worth something, specifically the edge I gain by being more precise on approaches for double arcs.

My comments are more related to a low activation, dual ISD list. I'd put 2 ISD, 2 Goz under that as well since the Goz don't add much fire power to the list. If you're going for high activation, you'll want to be more maneuverable objectives as @Coldhands suggests.

 

48 minutes ago, GiledPallaeon said:

Notes: I need to learn how to optimize Intel Officers. If someone could lay down some rules of thumb, I'd appreciate it. (E.g. do you use side arc first with IO and hope they burn it, or front arc first with IO and side arc as followup?)

I'm no expert with IO, but I like to use it on my first large attack and follow it up with a side arc AND the other ISD. If I only have 1 ISD, I suppose it matters if the defender is fresh or not, and if they have ECM.

If they are fresh and have ECM, go with the front arc first and use an Acc and IO to target the Brace. Now they have to spend ECM and discard if they want to use it, both of which make your second attack stronger. You can then target Redirect or Contain with your extra Acc and they have nothing they can do about it. Otherwise, you end up in a situation where they spend Brace and still have ECM making H9 useless, or they don't do anything and can ECM/Brace your next attack. Doing it this way also makes every attack much stronger. Best to blow the Brace on the first attack.

If they are fresh and do not have ECM, I'm not really sure. Maybe lead with the side arc and hope you roll well?

If they are damaged, regardless of ECM or not, side arc first. IO the Brace so you force them to half a weak attack, or you push a lot of damage through and it's likely your main attack can still kill them at half damage. 

 

I like the H9/IO build. Those ISDs are built for every situation like that.

[GiledPallaeon 2,873]

They fought well. And with some lucky rolls Manticore absorbed an obscene amount of punishment. And she wasn't even equipped with any DR.

[GiledPallaeon 2,873]

Two fleets flew yesterday, one against Green Knight and the other against Viktor Tanek. This is a post to remind me to return and post those fleets and a short batrep.

[Englishpete 1,379]

I have been flying ISD's since they released. I have tried flying three and I have tried flying just 2 with squadron support. What I have found is you need 3 activations to aid in flexibility of timing.

I was very skeptical of JJ vs my go to of Motti, but the sheer amount of maneuverability he gives these behemoths, especially with a nav command is beyond nuts.

This list hits hard and is designed to get in close and trade blows. I am pretty sure it will be my Regional list.

The four Defenders, along with the inbuilt defense of the ISD's vs squads are enough to hold enemy squads whilst I wreck ships.

 

Dual ISD-II's with JJ
Author: Englishpete

Faction: Galactic Empire
Points: 399/400

Commander: Moff Jerjerrod

Assault Objective: Advanced Gunnery
Defense Objective: Planetary Ion Cannon
Navigation Objective: Dangerous Territory

 

[ flagship ] Imperial II-Class Star Destroyer (120 points)
-  Moff Jerjerrod  ( 23  points)
-  Relentless  ( 3  points)
-  Agent Kallus  ( 3  points)
-  Gunnery Team  ( 7  points)
-  Electronic Countermeasures  ( 7  points)
-  X17 Turbolasers  ( 6  points)
-  Leading Shots  ( 4  points)
= 173 total ship cost

 

Gozanti-class Cruisers (23 points)
-  Comms Net  ( 2  points)
= 25 total ship cost

 

Imperial I-Class Star Destroyer (110 points)
-  Avenger  ( 5  points)
-  Minister Tua  ( 2  points)
-  Boarding Troopers  ( 3  points)
-  Electronic Countermeasures  ( 7  points)
-  X17 Turbolasers  ( 6  points)
-  Leading Shots  ( 4  points)
= 137 total ship cost

 

4 TIE Defender Squadrons ( 64 points)

[MandalorianMoose 1,862]

I also prefer one of each type, as it allows you to adress a wider variety of enemy fleets. Gunnery teams on the flagship 2 helps vs swarms and squads, and avenger bt, while gimmicky, can be a game changer vs the enemy big ship. Just yesterday I took out a full health fully shielded MC80 with a double arc. I’ve been running this with good results.

Points: 396/400  

Commander: Admiral Motti

Assault Objective: Most Wanted
Defense Objective: Contested Outpost
Navigation Objective: Salvage Run

 

[ flagship ] Imperial II-Class Star Destroyer (120 points)
-  Admiral Motti  ( 24  points) 
-  Gunnery Team  ( 7  points) 
-  Electronic Countermeasures  ( 7  points) 
-  Quad Battery Turrets  ( 5  points) 
-  Leading Shots  ( 4  points) 
= 167 total ship cost

 

Imperial I-Class Star Destroyer (110 points)
-  Avenger  ( 5  points) 
-  Minister Tua  ( 2  points) 
-  Boarding Troopers  ( 3  points) 
-  Electronic Countermeasures  ( 7  points) 
-  Leading Shots  ( 4  points) 
= 131 total ship cost

 

Gozanti-class Cruisers (23 points)
-  Comms Net  ( 2  points) 
= 25 total ship cost

 

Gozanti-class Cruisers (23 points)
-  Comms Net  ( 2  points) 
= 25 total ship cost

 

6 TIE Fighter Squadrons ( 48 points) 

 

That being said, I too am extremely excited for double cyamoons with Vader. I’ve proxied it in a few games and with Gunnery teams, spinals and XI7. That’s a TON of area covered in re-rollable red dice.

[GiledPallaeon 2,873]

Bounty Hunting Star Destroyers
Author: GiledPallaeon

Faction: Galactic Empire
Points: 399/400

Commander: Admiral Motti

Assault Objective: Most Wanted
Defense Objective: Contested Outpost
Navigation Objective: Solar Corona

[ flagship ] Imperial II-Class Star Destroyer (120 points)
-  Admiral Motti  ( 24  points)
-  Intel Officer  ( 7  points)
-  Gunnery Team  ( 7  points)
-  Reinforced Blast Doors  ( 5  points)
-  Quad Battery Turrets  ( 5  points)
-  Leading Shots  ( 4  points)
= 172 total ship cost

Imperial II-Class Star Destroyer (120 points)
-  Intel Officer  ( 7  points)
-  Gunnery Team  ( 7  points)
-  Reinforced Blast Doors  ( 5  points)
-  Quad Battery Turrets  ( 5  points)
-  Leading Shots  ( 4  points)
= 148 total ship cost

Gozanti-class Cruisers (23 points)
-  Comms Net  ( 2  points)
= 25 total ship cost

Gozanti-class Cruisers (23 points)
-  Admiral Titus  ( 2  points)
-  Comms Net  ( 2  points)
= 27 total ship cost

Gozanti-class Cruisers (23 points)
-  Hondo Ohnaka  ( 2  points)
-  Comms Net  ( 2  points)
= 27 total ship cost

This is the fleet deployed in my attempt on the bounty for @Green Knight. It's got advantages and disadvantages over the I-1 fleets I've been using in the Bruiser Extraordinaire fit. For starters, this is definitely the slower, less maneuverable fleet as it tries to hold enemies at risk of QBT. And while the threat value at long and medium ranges are higher, and H9s are often redundant, its possible peak damage output is lower, and it doesn't have XI7s to offset that to a degree. Were I to rebuild this fleet generally, I'm dropping Titus (obviously) and trying to find points to upgrade to ECMs, which probaby come from dropping IOs to fit XI7s, or just dropping QBT. Its defeat at GK's hands was at least partially my fault as I didn't tap Hondo on the turn the flagship needed him to evade a Demolisher double arc, so I'm not abandoning it yet, but it's got to prove itself to keep in the running.

JJ Borrows the Dreadnoughts
Author: GiledPallaeon

Faction: Galactic Empire
Points: 391/400

Commander: Moff Jerjerrod

Assault Objective: Most Wanted
Defense Objective: Contested Outpost
Navigation Objective: Solar Corona

Gozanti-class Cruisers (23 points)
-  Hondo Ohnaka  ( 2  points)
-  Comms Net  ( 2  points)
= 27 total ship cost

Arquitens-class Light Cruiser (54 points)
-  Hand of Justice  ( 4  points)
-  Captain Needa  ( 2  points)
-  Turbolaser Reroute Circuits  ( 7  points)
= 67 total ship cost

[ flagship ] Imperial I-Class Star Destroyer (110 points)
-  Moff Jerjerrod  ( 23  points)
-  Intel Officer  ( 7  points)
-  Ordnance Experts  ( 4  points)
-  H9 Turbolasers  ( 8  points)
-  High-Capacity Ion Turbines  ( 8  points)
= 160 total ship cost

Imperial I-Class Star Destroyer (110 points)
-  Intel Officer  ( 7  points)
-  Ordnance Experts  ( 4  points)
-  H9 Turbolasers  ( 8  points)
-  High-Capacity Ion Turbines  ( 8  points)
= 137 total ship cost

This fleet is the variant that fought @Viktor Tanek, and it is impressive. The big change is obvious, I drop an activation and a Gozanti to upgrade the Raider into the somewhat more survivable Arquitens, with Needa and some TRCs to make it a credible threat to flank with. It also got JJ, which allowed the two ISDs to scream in at high velocity and set up a relatively easy double arc against Viktor's Gallant Haven. The Arq also acquitted itself well, surviving well after I expected Admonition to space it, and supplying useful damage. This fleet can't really fight squadrons in the sense that it can kill them, but I think the game with Viktor proved that with a decent setup and some careful flying they are fast and agile enough to blitz a carrier group effectively then run away faster than the stranded squadrons can chase. Bid was good, and being first player is something I'm coming to think these fleets need. We'll see. This is probably close to the fleet I'll deploy for a Q4 tournament this Saturday (not in the least because I only own one Gozanti at the moment), just probably short Hand of Justice I'm prone to forgetting.

[Undeadguy 5,749]

We can see how they play against no squads and 6 activations this weekend if you got the time. 

[moodswing5537 1,415]

16 hours ago, GiledPallaeon said:

This is probably close to the fleet I'll deploy for a Q4 tournament this Saturday (not in the least because I only own one Gozanti at the moment), just probably short Hand of Justice I'm prone to forgetting.

What tourney are you going to Saturday, GP?

[Megatronrex 2,867]

42 minutes ago, moodswing5537 said:

What tourney are you going to Saturday, GP?

The one at Giga-Bites cafe in Marietta GA. If you're anywhere nearby you should come.

[moodswing5537 1,415]

That's the one @CaribbeanNinja and I are going to! 

[Megatronrex 2,867]

6 minutes ago, moodswing5537 said:

That's the one @CaribbeanNinja and I are going to! 

Nice, I'll see you guys there.

[GiledPallaeon 2,873]

3 hours ago, Undeadguy said:

We can see how they play against no squads and 6 activations this weekend if you got the time. 

I gots me a tourney on Saturday (obviously) but Sunday evening or next week we can give it a shot.