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Xquer

Column Tactics while flanked

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With column Tactics the rerolls you have is the number of trays in the front rank.  

When flanked, I attack, do I get any rerolls?  Wording for flanked 41.1 third bullet just limits rerolls for "additional rows" which covers precise, but not column tactics.

I feel like the spirit of the rule is No, but by the wording, I think column Tactics allow for rerolls.

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Rules as written, you would get to reroll while flanked.  This is how it's being played in my area.  Is that the intent?   Ehh probably not, I wouldn't be surprised to see this in a FAQ

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2 things:

Column tactics is may.

Threat is the length of he contacted edge (82.1), ranks 'behind' the contacted edge can be inferred to be what give rerolls, given the shifting frame of reference.

So looking at contacted edge, and geometry behind, you can use the original, or flip the 2 (as column tactics is kind of a 90 degree shift on the threat/reroll 2 axis, with absolute values for rerolls. 

Given the rules, wording, and assumptions I've made you can just attack from the side of your column, per normal rules, with threat 3 (82.1, assuming 1*3) and 1 reroll.  Column tactics would let you swap this for 1 threat, 3 reroll (this is the bigger assumption).

Aren't frames of reference fun!?

 

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33 minutes ago, Darthain said:

2 things:

Column tactics is may.

Threat is the length of he contacted edge (82.1), ranks 'behind' the contacted edge can be inferred to be what give rerolls, given the shifting frame of reference.

So looking at contacted edge, and geometry behind, you can use the original, or flip the 2 (as column tactics is kind of a 90 degree shift on the threat/reroll 2 axis, with absolute values for rerolls. 

Given the rules, wording, and assumptions I've made you can just attack from the side of your column, per normal rules, with threat 3 (82.1, assuming 1*3) and 1 reroll.  Column tactics would let you swap this for 1 threat, 3 reroll (this is the bigger assumption).

Aren't frames of reference fun!?

 

Yup got that (though without CT you get no rerolls).  Was more focused on the reroll parts.

 

55 minutes ago, Click5 said:

Rules as written, you would get to reroll while flanked.  This is how it's being played in my area.  Is that the intent?   Ehh probably not, I wouldn't be surprised to see this in a FAQ

Yeah definitely would not be surprised to see this clarified since this interpretation essentially  makes this a straight upgrade over rank disclipine.

There is some arguement in that the wording says:

"Your number of ranks for rerolls is equal to the number of trays in your front rank"

The idea being that you only get rerolls for "additional ranks", so anything after you count 1 rank.  You would not get a reroll if you were a single tray unit.

There just is not specific enough language, hence the question.

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2 hours ago, jek said:

also...if you are attacking a flank WHY would you opted to use column tactics? you would be cutting your threat down...to potentially 1

The reasoning comes down to the reroll question.  If you get rerolls, a 2x2 (after a 2x3 loses a row) or even a single tray makes sense.

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14 minutes ago, Xquer said:

The reasoning comes down to the reroll question.  If you get rerolls, a 2x2 (after a 2x3 loses a row) or even a single tray makes sense.

and per Tvay, and 41.1 bullet 3 - when you are flanked you never get rerolls.

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15 hours ago, Darthain said:

and per Tvay, and 41.1 bullet 3 - when you are flanked you never get rerolls.

Thoughts on if this also applies to Spined Thresher's ability to reroll one die if the opponent has a panic token?

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1 hour ago, Curlycross said:

Thoughts on if this also applies to Spined Thresher's ability to reroll one die if the opponent has a panic token?

You get the reroll.  The full text of 41.1 bullet 3:

"When the flanked unit performs an attack against the 
flanking unit, the flanked unit does not receive any rerolls 
for having additional ranks."

The reroll is just provided so long as the target has a panic, not because you have an additional rank.

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If I understand correctly, @Xquer is wondering if the source of rerolls are actually ranks when using Column Tactics. I think the core confusion comes from the fact that the Learn to Play Guide makes a big deal about ranks being horizontal. So if you use Column Tactics, it flips things so that now ranks would be vertical, and thus they wouldn't really be ranks any more - EXCEPT that the card calls out that "Your number of ranks for rerolls is equal to the number of trays in your front rank." That means that you don't get the reroll when flanked because the source of your rerolls is still referred to a as "ranks."

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It's the same issue with Column Tactics.  You aren't getting rerolls for additional ranks because you are flanked, but you are gaining rerolls equal to the number of trays in your front rank because Column Tactics.  

Nothing in 41.1 says you don't get to reroll dice, ever 

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16 minutes ago, Parakitor said:

If I understand correctly, @Xquer is wondering if the source of rerolls are actually ranks when using Column Tactics. I think the core confusion comes from the fact that the Learn to Play Guide makes a big deal about ranks being horizontal. So if you use Column Tactics, it flips things so that now ranks would be vertical, and thus they wouldn't really be ranks any more - EXCEPT that the card calls out that "Your number of ranks for rerolls is equal to the number of trays in your front rank." That means that you don't get the reroll when flanked because the source of your rerolls is still referred to a as "ranks."

Yes, thank you.  I understand the upgrade but the wording seemed to allow a loophole where you could still get rerolls when flanked, hence the question.

 

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It's a timing issue. Column Tactics triggers when you would get rerolls for extra ranks. Since you are flanked, you don't get that step of combat, so Column Tactics won't give you rerolls.

Other sources of rerolls happen during the modify dice step, so they are not affected by being flanked by your target.

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@Budgernaut column tactics occurs to me, to be another 'when issue' as well, per 1.1 and was it 82.3?  Except in this case, to complicate matters, I would definitely think you need to declare it out front.  But now we're drifting in opposite ruling for the same item... (A wait and see here doesn't seem fair).

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3 hours ago, Curlycross said:

Thoughts on if this also applies to Spined Thresher's ability to reroll one die if the opponent has a panic token?

That one would still go through since its not tied to ranks.
Precise is denied because it "counts as having an additional full rank" rather than simply saying "You may reroll your dice one additional time than normal"

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2 hours ago, Click5 said:

It's the same issue with Column Tactics.  You aren't getting rerolls for additional ranks because you are flanked, but you are gaining rerolls equal to the number of trays in your front rank because Column Tactics.  

Nothing in 41.1 says you don't get to reroll dice, ever 

No, you aren't.

"Your number of ranks for rerolls is equal to the number of trays in your front rank."

Column Tactics doesn't give you unique rerolls independent of rank rules, it just changes the metric of rank related rerolls, and if you are attacking a flanking unit, you don't get any rerolls based on ranks.

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26 minutes ago, Tvayumat said:

No, you aren't.

"Your number of ranks for rerolls is equal to the number of trays in your front rank."

Column Tactics doesn't give you unique rerolls independent of rank rules, it just changes the metric of rank related rerolls, and if you are attacking a flanking unit, you don't get any rerolls based on ranks.

Tvayumat has ruled :P But seriously this makes sense to me. And Vine I think Xquer thanks, I figured but I just wanted another's opinion.

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