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Pooleman

X-Wing is Awesome

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48 minutes ago, LordBlades said:

On the other hand though, if your work made you (somewhat) famous, you should expect it to be judged.

Thanks to Yelp, I am quite un-famous and yet often judged by equally anonymous (when they write the review) clients.  Most of them are as unkind and mean-spirited as the people talking about the devs.

Critiquing is one thing; vocally deciding that someone can't do their job, calling them names, and claiming they are ruining your (??!!) game is another.

Edited by Darth Meanie

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48 minutes ago, Stoneface said:

Being judged nd being insulted are two vastly different things.

There's a link to a podcast interview with all three devs that everyone should listen to. It might be eye opening to the critics. Then again it might make no difference to those with closed minds.

I have to say, I felt like all the devs are on the defensive.  Several times they brought up that XWM exists in 2 planes for them: what we see, and what they have already developed but not released.  So, everyone complaining about today's meta is already talking about a dead horse, and there is not that much the devs can do about it.  Releasing errata might even be too little too late, because the future of the game is already written and changing the present or the past might do nothing or actually derail it.

Hopefully, the devs also realize that a lot of people love this game, because if I were busting my *** for a game that people only complained about, I might lose my enthusiasm for it.  My only personal negative was the notion that if the devs have to work on ships vs. campaigns, they are going to make ships.  So, unless FFG starts shifting some manpower around, we are probably not going to get a campaign.

It makes me a little sad, but in the long run, it is probably better than the ships are official and the alternate formats are fan-made.  I can live with that.

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12 minutes ago, Darth Meanie said:

I have to say, I felt like all the devs are on the defensive.  Several times they brought up that XWM exists in 2 planes for them: what we see, and what they have already developed but not released.  So, everyone complaining about today's meta is already talking about a dead horse, and there is not that much the devs can do about it.  Releasing errata might even be too little too late, because the future of the game is already written and changing the present or the past might do nothing or actually derail it.

Hopefully, the devs also realize that a lot of people love this game, because if I were busting my *** for a game that people only complained about, I might lose my enthusiasm for it.  My only personal negative was the notion that if the devs have to work on ships vs. campaigns, they are going to make ships.  So, unless FFG starts shifting some manpower around, we are probably not going to get a campaign.

It makes me a little sad, but in the long run, it is probably better than the ships are official and the alternate formats are fan-made.  I can live with that.

Did you key on the section of the interview where, Alex Davy, I think, said until recently they had little input on what ships to develop? Obviously the ship's in the movies take precedence but it makes you wonder about some of the releases. Auzituck, Lancet, Jumpmaster to name a few.

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2 hours ago, Stoneface said:

Being judged nd being insulted are two vastly different things.

There's a link to a podcast interview with all three devs that everyone should listen to. It might be eye opening to the critics. Then again it might make no difference to those with closed minds.

I just did. Between dodging questions (we can't really talk about it) and brutal honesty (we didn't consider that or that would be too much effort for a single game regarding machine learning), I'd say the future isn't exactly sunshine&rainbows

 

It's largely what I expected: due to various constraints (sone independent of the devs themselves) current level of quality is what we can expect from x-wing in the near future. No more and no less.

Edited by LordBlades

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18 hours ago, GreenDragoon said:

O...k...? No offense intended, but that's nice for you. I, too, still like the game most of the time. That doesn't change anything - there are many people being very frustrated with the game in its current form, for all kinds of reasons.

It was February this year that I reposted and repeated SOTLs most important blogpost again and again and again. And all four factors he mentioned turned out to be important. Currently mechanics creep is extreme with Nym, but so is complexity creep and theme. At this point we just accepted the neverending powercreep...

I understand that there are people in a vocal minority that are annoying as heck. But there are also those that are frustrated and turning away for very good reasons. Reasons that you personally might not agree with - yet - but that clearly show a path where I for example don't want to follow.

Not to speak for Gecko here but you are not the target of that statement. As long as you present your arguments in a civil manner I think you are fine to do so. 

 

It is when someone is constantly combative, ignorant, negative, toxic, and outright rude that I begin to have a problem. 

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35 minutes ago, Timathius said:

Not to speak for Gecko here but you are not the target of that statement. As long as you present your arguments in a civil manner I think you are fine to do so. 

 

It is when someone is constantly combative, ignorant, negative, toxic, and outright rude that I begin to have a problem. 

I‘m hesitating to bring a real life example because politics, but I see the same principle:

Invalidating and dismissing all frustrated experiences because a loud minority is clearly negative, toxic, ignorant and outright rude does not work very well - it drives the two different groups that share frustration but have different reasons and behavior together. We see that in politics all over the globe.

I‘m not going to call out other users here, and I continuously try to distance myself from people that fit your description, but it takes a lot of effort that‘s unnecessary IMO - we could have more pragmatic and reasonable discussions instead, not this tendency to the extreme which by itself is a great indicator to judge the state of a community and game.

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Just now, GreenDragoon said:

I‘m hesitating to bring a real life example because politics, but I see the same principle:

Invalidating and dismissing all frustrated experiences because a loud minority is clearly negative, toxic, ignorant and outright rude does not work very well - it drives the two different groups that share frustration but have different reasons and behavior together. We see that in politics all over the globe.

I‘m not going to call out other users here, and I continuously try to distance myself from people that fit your description, but it takes a lot of effort that‘s unnecessary IMO - we could have more pragmatic and reasonable discussions instead, not this tendency to the extreme which by itself is a great indicator to judge the state of a community and game.

Actually, I find quite the opposite is the best way to handle this. With politics for example, I lean very left. But I will 100% call out people on the left who are acting in a toxic and unproductive manner not just ignore them. You should be calling out these people that are tarnishing your argument with their behavior. Blindly agreeing with them justifies and reinforces their behavior just as much as their message. 

 

No, you shouldn't have to. But unfortunately this is the world that you live in. 

 

Honestly, a lot of that would be solved with just a tiny bit of modding on the forums. just the occasional "hey keep it civil" etc. 

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2 minutes ago, Timathius said:

You should be calling out these people that are tarnishing your argument with their behavior. Blindly agreeing with them justifies and reinforces their behavior just as much as their message. 

I do. I meant ‚right now‘ in this thread and post.

3 minutes ago, Timathius said:

No, you shouldn't have to. But unfortunately this is the world that you live in. 

Yes I understand that. I‘m also criticising it - the ‚X-wing is awesome and you better quit if you disagree‘-crowd should be a tad smarter about it.

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6 minutes ago, Timathius said:

Actually, I find quite the opposite is the best way to handle this. With politics for example, I lean very left. But I will 100% call out people on the left who are acting in a toxic and unproductive manner not just ignore them. You should be calling out these people that are tarnishing your argument with their behavior. Blindly agreeing with them justifies and reinforces their behavior just as much as their message. 

 

No, you shouldn't have to. But unfortunately this is the world that you live in. 

 

Honestly, a lot of that would be solved with just a tiny bit of modding on the forums. just the occasional "hey keep it civil" etc. 

I find that when you call people out they tend to just get deeper entrenched in their original stance. 

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7 minutes ago, Timathius said:

Actually, I find quite the opposite is the best way to handle this. With politics for example, I lean very left. But I will 100% call out people on the left who are acting in a toxic and unproductive manner not just ignore them. You should be calling out these people that are tarnishing your argument with their behavior. Blindly agreeing with them justifies and reinforces their behavior just as much as their message. 

 

No, you shouldn't have to. But unfortunately this is the world that you live in. 

 

Honestly, a lot of that would be solved with just a tiny bit of modding on the forums. just the occasional "hey keep it civil" etc. 

Hey, keep it civil. :)

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4 minutes ago, GreenDragoon said:

I do. I meant ‚right now‘ in this thread and post.

Yes I understand that. I‘m also criticising it - the ‚X-wing is awesome and you better quit if you disagree‘-crowd should be a tad smarter about it.

I do t think people should quit, I just think X-Wing is awesome. I don’t want it’s few flaws to over-shadow everything that is right about it. There are so many options and so much variety. 

If you just focus on what’s wrong or the meta then you may get frustrated. 

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4 minutes ago, Pooleman said:

I do t think people should quit, I just think X-Wing is awesome. I don’t want it’s few flaws to over-shadow everything that is right about it. There are so many options and so much variety. 

If you just focus on what’s wrong or the meta then you may get frustrated. 

I loved my R5-D8 Y-Wing when I first played. But I also understand the game better by now and see that it is not a true option. The same happened for many, many ships and upgrades. So maybe the huge variety is coming from a lack of understanding for now?

X-Wing has a fundamental flaw: it is built to be played by challenge funtypes (google ‚8 kinds of fun‘), and the amount of good combinations is very limited. That means that the listbuilding aspect (the Johnny, also the expression funtype) is drained out while the submission funtype (grinding out repetitions) is fostered, which leads to ever reduced variety and attracts and rewards Spikes.

All because the balance is really messed up and the S&V interview in the recent episode shows us perfectly why...

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5 minutes ago, GreenDragoon said:

I loved my R5-D8 Y-Wing when I first played. But I also understand the game better by now and see that it is not a true option. The same happened for many, many ships and upgrades. So maybe the huge variety is coming from a lack of understanding for now?

X-Wing has a fundamental flaw: it is built to be played by challenge funtypes (google ‚8 kinds of fun‘), and the amount of good combinations is very limited. That means that the listbuilding aspect (the Johnny, also the expression funtype) is drained out while the submission funtype (grinding out repetitions) is fostered, which leads to ever reduced variety and attracts and rewards Spikes.

All because the balance is really messed up and the S&V interview in the recent episode shows us perfectly why...

I listed to that podcast. I also heard them discussing easy ways to keep it fun and to impose your own balance measures. 

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1 minute ago, GreenDragoon said:

I loved my R5-D8 Y-Wing when I first played. But I also understand the game better by now and see that it is not a true option. The same happened for many, many ships and upgrades. So maybe the huge variety is coming from a lack of understanding for now?

X-Wing has a fundamental flaw: it is built to be played by challenge funtypes (google ‚8 kinds of fun‘), and the amount of good combinations is very limited. That means that the listbuilding aspect (the Johnny, also the expression funtype) is drained out while the submission funtype (grinding out repetitions) is fostered, which leads to ever reduced variety and attracts and rewards Spikes.

All because the balance is really messed up and the S&V interview in the recent episode shows us perfectly why...

Do you ever get tired of this?  

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8 minutes ago, gennataos said:

Fair point.  I usually keep the complainers like yourself on my ignore list as well.  We should both probably rectify that.  

 

Done!

I think a hug is in order. Perhaps some gentle spooning?

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5 minutes ago, gennataos said:

Fair point.  I usually keep the complainers like yourself on my ignore list as well.  We should both probably rectify that.  

 

Done!

See @Timathius, I‘m clearly delusional because I‘m one of the complainers, and that‘s all there is to it.

That‘s a nice example of what I was talking about

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3 minutes ago, GreenDragoon said:

See @Timathius, I‘m clearly delusional because I‘m one of the complainers, and that‘s all there is to it.

That‘s a nice example of what I was talking about

I’m glad you’re here. Even if you are a complainer. 

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