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Why does Nym have an EPT?

90 posts in this topic

21 minutes ago, Marinealver said:

Lets ask the TIE Punisher how a load of non EPT upgrades are doing, oh so that's why.

And Miranda...? Kanan...?

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It's still some far from Miranda Doni! 

Nym doesn't have way to regen million times. It can be destroyed in two turns without a problem if you are just concentrated on him. It should be also good ship/pilot when you end up paying 40p, just like Dengar should be excellent if you spend 60p on him. 

In my experience Nym is good, but not too good, far from OP as suggested by community. Miranda is very close to be OP if not already OP with Biggs combo. 

I have my hopes up for FFG here at the moment, we haven't seen FAQ yet and that is excellent news, because we should get our new ships out before and let them settle in to the meta before we go witch hunting anything. Like we saw it could have save Palpatine to be nerfed and so on. 

Patience is the key here!!!! :ph34r:

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6 hours ago, Tbetts94 said:

Can’t shoot him if he purposely bumps and drops a bomb on you or if he Arc dodges you. He also has 10 hit points. Only small base ship with that many...

Well you need to apply these tactics on him because if not, you are down in two turns and just lost 40p and half of your squad. By bumping you might be able to get him some extra turns that are crucial to get win out of your opponent.

He is very weak against any Missiles or Torpedoes. And Gunboat coming out it will hate to be against that. Let's see what type of a missiles and gimmicks we are getting in next few waves! 

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7 hours ago, Tbetts94 said:

Can’t shoot him if he purposely bumps and drops a bomb on you or if he Arc dodges you. He also has 10 hit points. Only small base ship with that many...

Bring more than two ships next time.  Stress does wonders for stopping that advanced SLAM as well.

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1 hour ago, GrimmyV said:

Bring more than two ships next time.  Stress does wonders for stopping that advanced SLAM as well.

Even then Nym crushes a Swarm. I’ve seen him solo a squad. Sure stress stop Advance Sensors and does help significantly to narrow him down. But he’s still using genious and drops bombs without any consequences. The ship breaks the fundamentals of the game and literally any player that has some sort of skill won’t let you stress him or Ion him. The only time I have seen Nym get beaten on stream or in an actual game is when the Nym player **** up. Not when the opponent set up a trap or outplayed him.

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2 hours ago, Zazaa said:

Well you need to apply these tactics on him because if not, you are down in two turns and just lost 40p and half of your squad. By bumping you might be able to get him some extra turns that are crucial to get win out of your opponent.

He is very weak against any Missiles or Torpedoes. And Gunboat coming out it will hate to be against that. Let's see what type of a missiles and gimmicks we are getting in next few waves! 

I like flying Nym. Imperials, you can find a weakness, you're crafty. Ex. Nym only gets one evade die. Shoot him down with like an Upsilon or phantom.

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2 hours ago, Tbetts94 said:

Even then Nym crushes a Swarm. I’ve seen him solo a squad. Sure stress stop Advance Sensors and does help significantly to narrow him down. But he’s still using genious and drops bombs without any consequences. The ship breaks the fundamentals of the game and literally any player that has some sort of skill won’t let you stress him or Ion him. The only time I have seen Nym get beaten on stream or in an actual game is when the Nym player **** up. Not when the opponent set up a trap or outplayed him.

Just curious what kind of squad did you see Nym solo?

 

In my experience most things with a turret (including Miranda) with TLT have little trouble to 1v1 Nym late game.

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20 minutes ago, LordBlades said:

Just curious what kind of squad did you see Nym solo?

 

In my experience most things with a turret (including Miranda) with TLT have little trouble to 1v1 Nym late game.

Any squad that relies on arcs. Such as the Tie Swarm list above. Nym can literally joust it. The turn where they would be in range he dials in a 4 straight, because of advance sensors he can preboost to run into one or to overjump them. Then the entire swarm takes a bomblet. Nym doesn't like fat turrets because they can run away and still do damage, but the suggestion above was to bring numerous ships especially ones that actually require skill like playing with an arc and caring about it. That is not the answer to Nym if the Nym player is a capable opponent. 

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5 hours ago, Zazaa said:

It's still some far from Miranda Doni! 

Nym doesn't have way to regen million times. It can be destroyed in two turns without a problem if you are just concentrated on him. 

Funny to read as your arguments totally work against your point.

Miranda can, at best, regen once per round, if she has sustained damage, has an enemy in range, and has'nt SLAMed. Not quite the "million time".

 

Then, if you can destroy Nym "in two rounds", it means you dealt at least 10 damage to a 1 AGI ship. Oh, that's just like Miranda's HP with one use of regen (either on first or second round of fire, depending who fires first).

So I guess your problem is solved.

 

(BTW, I'm not saying Miranda isn't OP, she is, but not because of the regen thingy.  TLT and Sabine make Miranda obnoxious)

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3 hours ago, Tbetts94 said:

Any squad that relies on arcs. Such as the Tie Swarm list above. Nym can literally joust it. The turn where they would be in range he dials in a 4 straight, because of advance sensors he can preboost to run into one or to overjump them. Then the entire swarm takes a bomblet. Nym doesn't like fat turrets because they can run away and still do damage, but the suggestion above was to bring numerous ships especially ones that actually require skill like playing with an arc and caring about it. That is not the answer to Nym if the Nym player is a capable opponent. 

Lower PS arc bound ships are not the answer to Nym. IMO, turrets are. A Decimator or a Falcon doesn't give a **** about 2 dice bomblets.

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He has an EPT because he is Scum.  Neither the K-Wing or the TIE Punisher featured any pilots with an EPT, and the Scurrg is the Scum analog to those ships and features both a generic and a unique with an EPT. 

For whatever reason, Scum has the highest per-capita amount of ships that feature generics with EPTs.

Data, for those interested:

Scum have 14 non-Epic ship types with generic pilots (e.g. not the CROC or the IG-2000).  All of them have at least some pilots with EPT access, and 9 of them (64%) have a generic with access to an EPT, giving Scum far and away the best EPT access of any of the factions.  Consider:

Scum: 100% of ships have access to EPTs, 64% with generics who have EPTs
Imperials: 87.5% of ships have access to EPTs, 50% with generics who have EPTs
Rebels: 83% of ships have access to EPTs, 20% with generics who have EPTs

I don't know if it's power-creep or faction-bias or what, but Scum get the lion's share of EPTs, even when their ships are EPT-less in other factions or have strong analog ships that are EPT-less in other factions:


X-Wings - NO Generic with EPT
Khiraxz - YES Generic with EPT

B-Wing - NO Generic with EPT
G1-A - YES Generic with EPT

YT-1300/YT-2400 - NO Generic with EPT
Jumpmaster 5000 - YES Generic with EPT

K-Wing/Punisher - NO EPTs
Scurrg - YES Generic and Uniques with EPTs

Imperial Firespray - NO Generic with EPT
Scum Firespray - YES Generic with EPT

Rebel Y-Wing - NO EPTs
Scum Y-Wing - YES Unique EPT

Imperial Shuttle - NO EPTs
YV-666 - YES Unique EPT

Edited by AllWingsStandyingBy
Gilarius, kris40k, Lobokai and 6 others like this

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4 hours ago, MalusCalibur said:

Nym has an Elite slot because someone didn't know where to stop when adding things to this ship. Whether it was intentional power creep or just plain incompetence, we may never know for sure.

Incompetence. I'm sure of it.

Eisai, Hos, kris40k and 1 other like this

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14 hours ago, Zazaa said:

I have my hopes up for FFG here at the moment, we haven't seen FAQ yet and that is excellent news, because we should get our new ships out before and let them settle in to the meta before we go witch hunting anything. Like we saw it could have save Palpatine to be nerfed and so on. 

Patience is the key here!!!! :ph34r:

What?

It's closing on an entire year since the first half of the "Bringing Ballance to the Force" FAQ 4.3.2 came out. The rest was finishing up playtesting and the info was in before 2017 got started. Then in December 16? ....'crickets' Nothing. Late Winter 17? Nothing. Spring? Nothing. Summer? Nothing. Now Fall? Nothing. All the while the meta is super unbalanced and we keep getting releases that tilt the imbalance even more.

i applaud your chipper attitude and request for patience @Zazaa, I really do, mine just burned out after 10 months of waiting; I have no more. Obviously imbalance is FFGs desire, so let them have it.

 

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2 hours ago, Vargas79 said:

Incompetence. I'm sure of it

I’ll buy that for Miranda or TLT or JM5K. But we’ve had those three in the meta, causing problems, for too long for the Scurrg to just be an oops. They made this ship with eyes wide open. 

Ditto with Rex and Wookie Wood ships doubling down on Biggs. None of these things could be a surprise or outliers that snuck by.

I guess they might feel okay with massive power creeping/repeating both a Rebel and a Scum OP design since it appears that they’re making the Silencer into the second coming of Soontir and maybe (just maybe) the Gunboats can take on the meta as is... but their track record has me being patiently pessimistic for now. 

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On 10/14/2017 at 0:26 PM, Jehan Menasis said:

Errata:

Veteran Instincts

The text on this card should be preceded by the phrase "Imperial Only"

 

Tad dah! The game is fixed. You can send my paycheck later, FFG. 

 

 

Actually, I wouldn’t mind seeing VI limited to non-unique pilots only. 

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On 2017-10-14 at 0:32 PM, LordBlades said:

Apart from Miranda (who has an awesome pilot ability and SLAM), how many K-wings and Punishers do you see played? Nym would likely have the same fate.

Nym would still be good at PS8 and the other Scurrg as well. He would be a though flexible bomber with a system slot and TLTs. He would just not be able to arc dodge aces on top of all that.

On 2017-10-15 at 2:22 AM, Marinealver said:

Lets ask the TIE Punisher how a load of non EPT upgrades are doing, oh so that's why.

Please dont compare the Punisher to the Scurrg. Even with an EPT it would still be a bad ship. It has worst dial and only 2 dice primary with no turret. It also does not have Genius to augment its bombing capacity.

Edited by Thormind

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Sol with VI and the typical Nym loadout is good.  Not broken-good, balanced-good.

Nym without an EPT would be too.

On 10/15/2017 at 7:22 AM, Marinealver said:

Lets ask the TIE Punisher how a load of non EPT upgrades are doing, oh so that's why.

The TIE Punisher with an EPT would still be 5+ points overpriced.  It would be less dreadful, but an EPT wouldn't make it good.

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2 hours ago, Thormind said:

Nym would still be good at PS8 and the other Scurrg as well. He would be a though flexible bomber with a system slot and TLTs. He would just not be able to arc dodge aces on top of all that.

 

Just look at all the other not-Nym Scurrgs flying around....oh wait

 

On a more serious note, an EPT-less Nym is a strictly worse Miranda (it can do nothing that Miranda doesn't do better). Therefore, as a Rebel, why would you take Nym over Miranda? Only reason would be if you're flying Miranda/Nym. But would Miranda/Nym still be good enough with Nym at PS8? I don't know.

 

As Scum, you mainly have Dengar/Nym. Personally, if Nym was restricted to PS8 I feel it becomes an inferior option to Dengar/Tel (or even Dengar/Fenn/Inaldra if Nym usage drops on Rebel side too).

Edited by LordBlades

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7 minutes ago, LordBlades said:

Just look at all the other not-Nym Scurrgs flying around....oh wait

 

On a more serious note, an EPT-less Nym is a strictly worse Miranda (it can do nothing that Miranda doesn't do better). Therefore, as a Rebel, why would you take Nym over Miranda? Only reason would be if you're flying Miranda/Nym. But would Miranda/Nym still be good enough with Nym at PS8? I don't know.

 

As Scum, you mainly have Dengar/Nym. Personally, if Nym was restricted to PS8 I feel it becomes an inferior option to Dengar/Tel (or even Dengar/Fenn/Inaldra if Nym usage drops on Rebel side too).

You don't see other Scurrgs because Nym and Dengar are both better for the cost and list building slots, not because Sol is bad.  And because the Scout is obscenely good, not because the generics are bad.

You wouldn't necessarily see Nym over MIranda - but then, Miranda is already a better ship than Nym.

Edited by thespaceinvader

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17 minutes ago, thespaceinvader said:

You don't see other Scurrgs because Nym and Dengar are both better for the cost and list building slots, not because Sol is bad.  And because the Scout is obscenely good, not because the generics are bad.

You wouldn't necessarily see Nym over MIranda - but then, Miranda is already a better ship than Nym.

I agree. However, PS 10 Nym is close enough some people run whatever/Nym instead of whatever/Miranda.

 

If the goal is to have Nym not viable in a competitive environment then yes, Nym should not have an EPT.

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1 minute ago, LordBlades said:

I agree. However, PS 10 Nym is close enough some people run whatever/Nym instead of whatever/Miranda.

 

If the goal is to have Nym not viable in a competitive environment then yes, Nym should not have an EPT.

The goal is to fix the game as a whole, and fixing Nym is one tiny part of that.  Miranda also needs fixing, as do half a dozen other major power imbalances.

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12 minutes ago, LordBlades said:

If the goal is to have Nym not viable in a competitive environment then yes, Nym should not have an EPT.

What about just dropping Nym specifically down to PS 6? Keep the EPT for all the other non-Nym Scurrgs, but reign in his 'perfect knowledge' movement. That seems like it would bring him in line with your assertion that the Scurrg is garbage without an EPT.

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