Everyday Ace

Bring the iconic ships back

21 posts in this topic

The iconic ships of starwars need some love. I think it is problematic, that we do not see iconic ships like the original TIE fighter, X-wing, B-wing, TIE interceptor, Han Solos Millenium Falcon, Lukes X-wing...  on the gaming tables anymore. I do know many X-wing players, that would not love to see more of these ships, but when FFG have made it so, that these iconic ships lose nearly any game. Then its not fun to play them, so if FFG is reading these conversations please give some love to the iconic ships. We love X-wing and need FFG to fix the iconic ships.
Below are some suggestions, but it does not matter a lot to me, what FFG choose to do - just do something to bring the iconic ships back.

Ideas for fixes could be:
TIE fighter (0 point title): When withinn range 1 TIE Fighters can use each others focus tokens (because we want TIE swarms back)
B-wing (0 point title):Free barrelroll action before maneuver, that still allows action after maneuver 
X-wing T65 (0 point astromech): -1 points discount (because you can field 5 X-wings with integraded for 100 points - Biggs must of cause be FAQed first)
TIE Interceptor (0 point title): When hit by a bomb the TIE Interceptor rolls one evade die. If the roll is an evade, then it avoids the effect of the bomb. Should still allow the Royal Guard title.
Luke Skywalker (New Pilotcard: 27 points): May perform a free the boost action before maneuver and may aquire a TL (range 1-3) at the start of the combat round.
 

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The idea that you had for the Interceptor is something I wouldn't mind seeing as a modification. Of course knowing FFG, they would probably put it out as Rebel and Scum only like Pulsed Ray Shields. 

 

"The dark side is strong in me, for I am Sith."

Edited by Darth Nadir
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I'm all for it.  I have a number of 'old' X-Wings and never play them.  Even in casual games, they are greatly underperforming for their points compared to most everything else.  Not being able to field iconic ships with at least a mild chance to do well is a low point for the game and it seems that it has been reasonably possible to fix ships with shortcomings.

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Some guys I know are actually playtesting a rebalancing system for the Icons from the movies. But i think the system is planned to be wave 1-3 only.

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How about a Firespray fix? Maybe give it a double crew slot title, or a modification that drops the bomb and/or the cannon upgrade for  minus squad points?

Edited by Luner_Eclipse
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On 10/28/2017 at 5:37 AM, Luner_Eclipse said:

How about a Firespray fix? Maybe give it a double crew slot title, or a modification that drops the bomb and/or the cannon upgrade for  minus squad points?

I'd prefer something lie "Slave 1 (TFA/TLJ/etc). -2pts. This ship can equip upgrades that have the restriction Small Ship Only. This card has a negative points cost." Then you could equip fun things like Vectored Thrusters, Linked Batteries, and Intensity.

Edited by vbananas

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If they should do something about the Firespray, then it should be "Imperial Firespray Named Pilot only" and not too powerful, because the scum versions are good enough and we do not want FFG to create new imbalances.

19 hours ago, vbananas said:

I'd prefer something lie "Slave 1 (TFA/TLJ/etc). -2pts. This ship can equip upgrades that have the restriction Small Ship Only. This card has a negative points cost." Then you could equip fun things like Vectored Thrusters, Linked Batteries, and Intensity.

@vbananas : I think a two point negative Slave 1 title, which removes the restriction "small ship only" will be too powerful.

 

On 28/10/2017 at 2:37 PM, Luner_Eclipse said:

How about a Firespray fix? Maybe give it a double crew slot title, or a modification that drops the bomb and/or the cannon upgrade for  minus squad points?

@Lunar _Eclipse : I think a zero point title, with "Imperial Firespray Named Pilot only" restriction, reading "You get another crew slot" might be fine and not create a new imbalance.

Due to the fact, that the Firespray is a prisoner transport a thematical suggestion for a zero point title named  "Prisoner transport" could be "Instead of attacking, when in range one of an enemy ship, you may roll one attack die. If you roll a hit, that ships crew upgrade cards has no game effect this round. If you roll a critical, you may discard one of the enemy ships crew upgrade cards." Again with the restriction "Imperial Firespray Named Pilot only".

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I hope the fixes for the iconic ships include the Z95 please !!!. I fly them in mini swarms in games amongst my friends, and they currently don't stand up to a joust with a mini tie "crack" swarm, or anything with 3 attack dice !!. They are crying out for a title: whether it costs a point or not, that names a new designation of the ship and allows them to carry an Astromech...

I mean, imagine the possibilities of a Tala Squadron Z95 with R2-D6 and an elite talent, or R7-T1; That would give them a fighting chance against a mini swarm: all be it for a  higher points cost.

That could easily make up for their lack of named pilots, and allow me to fly four to six decent Zs in two groups, or as escorts to other fighters. Come on FFG, I'm sure that would boost sales of the model too. 

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Amen to this! But I don't think you can keep adding fixes to the game forever. X Wing is going to have to compartmentalize itself into wave eras as the game evolves over the years and the movies accumulate. Put me in the Wave 1-5 only era.

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On 10/14/2017 at 5:12 AM, Everyday Ace said:


X-wing T65 (0 point astromech): -1 points discount (because you can field 5 X-wings with integraded for 100 points - Biggs must of cause be FAQed first)


Luke Skywalker (New Pilotcard: 27 points): May perform a free the boost action before maneuver and may aquire a TL (range 1-3) at the start of the combat round.
 

Integrated Astro does nothing without an Astromech, which you can't afford in a 5-ship list if they all cost 20 points...

Poor Luke, not one likes his current ability (even though it's thematic and actually pretty good [if FFG hadn't pushed the game so far away from swarms, that is]).

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10 hours ago, ObiWonka said:

Integrated Astro does nothing without an Astromech, which you can't afford in a 5-ship list if they all cost 20 points...

Poor Luke, not one likes his current ability (even though it's thematic and actually pretty good [if FFG hadn't pushed the game so far away from swarms, that is]).

-1 Pts to astromech buys you R2s, R4-D6, R2-D6 w/Trick Shot for free with integrated.

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17 hours ago, Npmartian said:

-1 Pts to astromech buys you R2s, R4-D6, R2-D6 w/Trick Shot for free with integrated.

I misread that the card itself took the Astromech slot.

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Why not give the TIEs a Bullseye arc with a title ("Chin mounted cannons", or something)? That would make up for their low attack dice, give the LN and F/O variants a needed title, and give you a choice with the SF as to which one to equip. They could make a little cardboard token overlay to represent the arc.

Edited by impspy

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I'm pretty new to the game, but I had some ideas along this line. Most of these are from canon (or Legends) lore and finding a way to integrate it into the game:

Title Card: T-65B X-wing
Point Cost: 2

When attacking a target against which you have a Target Lock, increase your base attack rating to 4. The Target Lock is not expended.

Title Card: T-65C A2 X-wing
Point Cost: 4

When attacking a target against which you have a Target Lock, increase your base attack rating to 4. The Target Lock is not expended. Additionally, you add the Boost and Evade actions to your Action Bar.

Title Card: T-65D X-wing
Point Cost: 4

When attacking a target against which you have a Target Lock, increase your base attack rating to 4. The Target Lock is not expended. Additionally, your Astromech slot is replaced by an extra System slot.

These are upgrades that allow the X-wing a die for each of its four cannon, which would help give it a nice bonus over the E-wing or B-wing. Something similar could also be done for the TIE Interceptor. Beyond the firepower boost, this would introduce some strategy for both the X-wing and its opponent: Getting a lock for the X-wing would be important, as would different means of breaking it. The X-wing pilot would also need to weigh carefully on whether or not to spend his target lock and give up the extra attack die.

Additionally, the T-65C A2 is faster than the T-65B according to the old WEG RPG, (on par with the TIE/ln and TIE Interceptor) so giving it Boost and Evade would be a good representation of that. Since the C A2 was comparatively rare in the new canon, it could also be made a Unique card.

The T-65D is a more obscure X-wing variant from the Legends EU, (IIRC, it only appeared in The New Rebellion, and the concept was abandoned in-universe because of sabotage) which replaced the astromech socket with an on-board flight computer.

Pilot: Rogue Squadron Pilot
Pilot Skill: 5 with Elite Upgrade
Ship Type: X-wing

"We're Rogue Squadron. We do." When outnumbered, you may perform any Maneuver of your choice as your Action that turn, even if your ship is normally unable to perform that maneuver (in which case add one stress token).

Let's get the Rogues into the game. The idea here is a play on the idea that the Rogues can accomplish the impossible. This could be tweaked further by limiting it to, say, only 2-speed maneuvers.

Title Card: BTL-S3 Y-wing
Point Cost: 2

Add a slot for a Crew Member, and gain the Ion Turret at no additional cost (all other turrets are at their standard point cost).

Well, we've got the A4 Y-wing. This card would add a Crew slot to make the two-man BTL-S3 variant, and allow the Y-wing to equip the ion turret without spending extra points on it.

Title Card: BTL-A4 LP
Point Cost: 6

You may spend a Target Lock at the beginning of the next Preparation Phase. Your selected target must then reveal his movement dial once he has set it. All friendly craft may then adjust their dials before the Preparation Phase ends if they wish.

Y-wing Longprobe! There's no real role for long-range reconnaissance, so I figured this would be a possible way to address the concept. This would make the Y-wing an interesting tactical platform, by allowing friendlies to know their opponent's intent and being able to plan accordingly. Because of how that effects the strategy, I'm giving it a pretty steep cost.

System Upgrade: Steerable Cannon (A-wing Only)
Point Cost: 2

You gain a firing arc for your primary weapons in the rear.

According to Legends the A-wing had cannon that could pivot, including to fire in the rear arc. This would be differentiated from a turret in that it wouldn't be a full 360 degree arc, instead take the standard firing arc and apply it to the rear.

Upgrade: Narrow Profile (B-wing Only)
Point Cost: 4

When an attack would hits directly on your forward or rear facing, roll one additional defense die.

True story: The B-wing disappeared from the Battle of Endor sequence in Return of the Jedi because the effects crews discovered its thin profile made it very difficult to see on film. Ironically, this would also be an ADVANTAGE in a real dogfight, as it would make the B-wing more difficult for an opponent to pick up. So this upgrade would represent that.

E-Wing Title Card: E-wing Type A
Point Cost: -4

Reduce your base attack rating to 2.

E-Wing Title Card: E-wing Type B
Point Cost: -2

At the end of every attack sequence roll one attack die. On a Blank or Focus receive no effect. If you roll a Hit, receive one Stress Token. On a Critical Hit, draw a damage card and resolve its effects.

A couple ideas from Legends to mitigate the E-wing's high cost, even for Knave Squadron. The E-wing Type A had underpowered cannon because of their use of artificial gas to power the weapons (reduced firepower). This was corrected in the Type B by deliberately overloading the weapon to boost weapon power back to appropriate levels. However this also meant the cannon were unstable and prone to malfunction.

An E-wing can reduce its point cost by either accepting an attack power loss, or the risk of his cannon failing, possibly even catastrophically.

Edited by Ambaryerno

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Alternative Longprobes:

You may acquire a Target Lock on a ship anywhere on the board, even if it is out of your attack range.

*OR*

When you acquire a Target Lock, you may pass it to any friendly ship on the board at the beginning of the Attack Phase, before any friendly attacks are made.

*OR*

When you have a Target Lock on a ship that is within your firing range, you may spend your lock to allow any friendly ship to make an attack on your target with ordinance, even if the target is out of their range.

Another X-wing Title:

X-wing Title Card: T-65 AC4
Point Cost 6

When attacking a target against which you have a Target Lock, increase your base attack rating to 4. The Target Lock is not expended. Use the A-wing maneuvering dial.

The AC4 is another rarer X-wing variant, from the Jedi Academy Sourcebook. Its specs in the book give it speed and maneuvering on par with the A-wing. Like with the C A2, this could be made a Unique ship.

I've tried to figure out the best way to include a ship like the T-65XJ series, (IE a second torpedo slot since the canon XJ had three tubes vs. the standard T-65's two) but TBH the XJ X-wings are different enough they might need to be a separate ship entirely.

Edited by Ambaryerno

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For the K-wing, to better fit the description given in Black Fleet Crisis, rather than the abomination the artists who apparently never actually READ the thing created for the WotC RPG:

K-wing Title Card: Black Fleet Crisis

Remove all fixed/turreted weapon systems, and instead add two additional torpedo and bomb slots. You gain Escape Booster at no cost, but cannot use the SLAM action.

Kube-McDowell described the K-wing as having no turrets or fixed weapons. It's strictly a bomber that relies on escort for defense. It also didn't have the SLAM system. Its booster engine had a specific purpose:

Modification: Escape Booster
Point Cost: 3

At the end of the attack phase, you may make a hard turn of any speed from 1-3 on turns in which you launch ordinance. Assign a number of stress tokens equal to your speed (1 token for a 1-speed turn, 2 for a 2-speed turn, etc.)

The K-wing's third engine (which is angled UPWARD, not simply mounted on top of the hull) was used to help the ship pull out of its attack runs after releasing ordinance, not as a general "Go Faster" button.

Edited by Ambaryerno

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Here's another idea for the B-Wing. This is based on the fact that I've studied every square inch of the original studio effects model, and there is PHYSICALLY NO WHERE ON THE THING for torpedo tubes. Absolutely every place supplementary materials have tried to put torpedoes is a physical impossibility (usually because something ELSE has to occupy that space). Based on this, I'm of the opinion that the B-wing was originally intended to be a pure gunship, and it was only WEG's lack of research (a very long-running problem, especially with their later material) that gave it ordinance capability. So:

Torpedo Upgrade: Gunship (B-wing Only)
Point Cost: 3

Add a second cannon upgrade to your bar. You may equip Autoblasters at no additional cost (all other cannon at their normal cost). Only one of this card can be equipped, and only one slot can equip Autoblasters.

Torpedo Upgrade: Fire-Linked Blasters (B-wing Only)
Point Cost: 2

When Autoblasters are equipped, after firing your primary weapon you may then fire your Autoblasters against the same target if it is within their range.

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What would you all think about a System upgrade that turns the X-wing's primary weapon into Heavy Laser Cannon — with the caveat that range bonuses apply as normal since it's not a secondary weapon — rather than trying to squeeze the firepower boost into the Title Cards on all these X-wing variants?

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